hello, i am a new user to the dodge forum site and i would really appreciate any help troubleshooting the problem that i am having with my 19996 intrepid. i will give some history of the problems i have had with it, because i think they are all related. this will be long, so please be patient. about 2 years ago all of a sudden the transmission started going into limp mode, i did a little research and went straight to the input and output sensors. what i found was that the plug on the output sensor had been twisted a few times and the 2 wires had rubbed the insulation off each other and they were touching. so i unplugged the sensor plug, straightened out the wires and taped them up. now the car goes back to shifting normally. approximately 1 year ago the car developed a severe cutback. it would crank perfectly and drive perfectly then all of a sudden it would start spitting, sputtering and cutting back. if i tried to press down on the pedal it would completely die out, but if i just held the throttle to maintain speed, kinda just patting the accelerator it would smooth out and run just fine for sometimes weeks before it happened again. when it first started this it only happened once every few weeks, and it only lasted a minute or so, but it gradually got worse. then one day i cranked it and drove it 60 miles with no problems. then cranked it about an hour later and it cranked up, idled just fine but when i would put it in gear to take off, it was sputtering so bad that it would shut off. i tried for 30 minutes. i decided it was the fuel pump, so i bought a new fuel pump and installed it and it cranked up and took off perfectly and it ran perfect for the next 3 weeks. then all of a sudden one day going down the road it started spitting and sputtering again. this time i took it to autozone and had them put the code scanner on it. i replaced several sensors, map sensor, TPS, etc... but what i finally found was a bad connection on the cam sensor plug. so i made a temporary fix and returned all the new sensors and the car ran just fine for another 9 months. then all of a sudden one day i stopped at a traffic light and when i took off it went into limp mode again. so i thought the fix i had done on the wires for the output sensor needed more attention. so i got back underneath and checked and the plug and wires for the sensors was still good. so i replaced both senors and it still going into limp mode. so i put in another TCM and that doesn't help. so i'm thinking maybe a bad ECM and that all of these problems are coming from a failing ECM. so i get another ECM and put it in and now it will crank but it will not start. i start checking fuses and swapping relays and still no start. then i realize when i switch on the ignition, i don't hear the fuel pump. so i get in the trunk and check it and there no voltage at the pump. i switch and put the original ECM back in and still no volts at the pump and still no start. i printed out the ECM pin diagram and with the key on, I have 12v on the fuel pump relay but the 5v is down to 1.4v on any of the 5v pins. the ASD pin has 0 volts. i know the ASD relay controls the fuel pump and injector voltage. what i don't know what would cause 0 volts on the ASD. I swapped relays and checked the fuses. I also unplugged all the sensors except the crank sensor to see if one of them is pulling down the 5v but it did not bring the 5v back up. so, would the crank sensor likely be causing the low 5v and could i jump 12v to the ASD to see if it would send 12v to the fuel pump? i know this is a lot of info and i apologize. i do think all of these problems are related and the source is probably one of the computers. oh yeah, i put the original TCM back in yesterday and still no change. i forgot to add that, there are no codes, even when taking the battery cable off and putting it back on, check engine light does not come on at all. when i turn the key to the on position, sometimes i get no lights on the dash at all, no battery light, nothing. i have to switch the key on and off several times then the lights will come on, but if i switch it back off and on again, goes back to no dash lights. this has started since the car will not start. but there has been an ongoing problem of switching the key on and everything lights on the dash but the fuel gauge will not register, and if i would crank it like this, it would crank but it would be in limp mode. if i turned the key to the on position and the fuel needle moves up, i could crank it and it would start and run fine. before this problem of not cranking up, it had this problem for several years but it didn't happen all the time, just occasionally. i always thought it was a bad key or switch, but now i am thinking that this too is related to everything else going bad on the car. maybe a bad BCM ?????

 

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I would honestly check all the wires, something is stealing the power away from your fuel pump.. I just wish I could pinpoint it..

Oh and if the TCM(Transmission Control Module) or the sensors / solenoids in the transmission are having issues. If the TCM or the sensors / solenoids goes nuts, it can cause the gauges to go nuts and throw the car into Limp Mode..

 

thanks go-part. after removing and connecting different sensors, ECM and the TCM i now have 12v on the fuel pump connector, but still have 0v on the asd relay pin at the ECM and the 5v pins on the ECM are still reading 1.4v. i think i have read that the BCM controls the dash lights, and i am definately having a problem with them. does the BCM play a part in the starting of the car? can the BCM pull down the voltage of the 5v source and create a 0v condition on the ASD relay? what is throwing me is that the car was cranking and starting and driving just fine until i removed the ECM to get the numbers off the bottom of it and plugged it back in. it was cranking up fine before that and it was only disconnected for 5 minutes and when i plugged it back in it just cranks and cranks but it will not fire. i even unplugged all the sensors except the crank sensor to see if the 5v would come back up on the ECM, but it was still at 1.4v with all of them disconnected.

 

Just wondering.. Have you had the battery tested yet? Thats the next thing i would check.

 

thanks, the battery is fine, it spins engine like a new one. does anyone know if disconnecting the ECM with the battery connected would damage the ECM? it was cranking up perfectly until i disconnected the ECM to get the numbers off the bottom of it. wrote down the numbers, and plugged it back in and it would not crank up and has not cranked since. testing the wires at the ECM i do not have any 5v anywhere and 0v on the asd relay. i got a second ECM and it has the same condition for either one.

 

Ok, this is from memory but you can read/verify in the ship manual...thus may help. The PCM gets signal from both the cam and crank sensor. If both valid, it provides power to the ASD relay. When the ASD relay is energized, the fuel pump gets power as well as the coil block. That being said, ring the wire between the ECM and ASD relay (shorts and continuity). Do same for CAM and crank sensor wires. Maker sure you have both sensors connected and the ECM and try to crank it. Do you get spark? If so, go the direction of the fuel pump,..if not look ti the ECM OR THE KEY switch. As for the BCM...it controls the interior lights, windows,key less entry, dash lights (dimming etc NOT the engine light). If the engine light d/n come on and your reader w/n connect, its either the switch,ECM or wires. May readers also have a function to test the MIL (engine) lamp.


This should get you in the right direction. Let us know what happens

Kurt

 

thanks kurt, i will get on it and post my findings...by the way, can you access the crank sensor from the top or do you have to do it under the car?

 

Check engine isn't on? I had a similar problem with the crank sensor, but I got a P-0432 code on the Check engine light.

 

no, the check engine light does NOT come on now. has not come on since i disconnected the ECM and re-connected the ECM. that is when it developed this no-crank condition.

 

Ck for bent pins and verify the connector is all the way on. As for no crank, do you mean it w/n even turn the starter? If so fix that first. I'm pretty sure the computer is out of the cranking picture. That , along with no light, looks like battery , wires or switch. Ensure good voltage at the hot pin of the starter, ck ground attach to block etc.