Replacement Coolant/Flush & What kind and how much?
#1
02-18-2012, 04:20 PM
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Replacement Coolant/Flush & What kind and how much?
I figured I'd flush the coolant as well and noticed it was a red/orange coolant?
Heard about this before but don't really know anything much about it.. From what I've heard You probably shouldn't mix it?
Anyways, after some research and a lot of mixed answers It seems that Chrysler uses a HOAT G05 type coolant?
Is this the only coolant I can use and Where Can I buy this?
Some people said they sued Zertex G05, Is that safe to use?
Also, Anyone have a step by step on how to drain and flush the coolant and how much to use to replace?
Thanks, Much Appreciated
Heard about this before but don't really know anything much about it.. From what I've heard You probably shouldn't mix it?
Anyways, after some research and a lot of mixed answers It seems that Chrysler uses a HOAT G05 type coolant?
Is this the only coolant I can use and Where Can I buy this?
Some people said they sued Zertex G05, Is that safe to use?
Also, Anyone have a step by step on how to drain and flush the coolant and how much to use to replace?
Thanks, Much Appreciated
#2
02-18-2012, 04:49 PM
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Drain the radiator using the petcock with a bucket underneath. It's usually on the bottom driver's side of the radiator. Remove the radiator cap to make this go faster. Once you have a gallon or so out, you can remove the bottom hose from the radiator and direct it into a bucket. BE CAREFUL with the coolant! Kids and critters think antifreeze tastes good and it's a vicious poison.
Put a flushing T in one of the heater hoses. It probably doesn't matter which one, but try to figure out the one TO the heater core. If you want, you can use Prestone's flushing fluid, but lotsa folks use CLR. Just make sure you get absolutely clear water out before you start buttoning up to refill. I left out the 'stat when I did mine. It seemed to flow better during the flush.
Your O/M should provide the capacity. It's probably 16 quarts or so. I just did mine using Prestone Extended Life. You can get the HOAT from your dealer. Depending on the mileage, you may want to replace the hoses, the 'stat and the belt.
Put a flushing T in one of the heater hoses. It probably doesn't matter which one, but try to figure out the one TO the heater core. If you want, you can use Prestone's flushing fluid, but lotsa folks use CLR. Just make sure you get absolutely clear water out before you start buttoning up to refill. I left out the 'stat when I did mine. It seemed to flow better during the flush.
Your O/M should provide the capacity. It's probably 16 quarts or so. I just did mine using Prestone Extended Life. You can get the HOAT from your dealer. Depending on the mileage, you may want to replace the hoses, the 'stat and the belt.
#4
02-20-2012, 11:00 AM
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Here's a repost of something I added to another thread about coolant:
There is TONS of information out there on the different types of coolant.
Here's the Cliff notes:
First and foremost, any type of coolant can be whatever color the MFG decides to color it, so do not go by color, only go by type.
There are three basic types of modern coolant, and they all contain an ethylene glycol base, water, dye and an additive package. Each type is referred to by the additive package it contains:
IAT is almost always green, and is what most people would associate with "regular" coolant. It gets its name from the inorganic rust inhibitor package it contains, and has a rather high silicate content. The nature of this package causes it to break down as it performs its job of prohibiting rust, and as it is exposed to air and heat/cool cycles. This is why the coolant needs to be replaced so often. There are no longer any vehicle MFGs that use this coolant in their vehicles.
OAT on the other hand, contains no silicates, and inhibits rust using a purely organic package. OAT coolant is most widely used in the US by GM, and different formulations are used by many MFGs in Europe and Japan. This type of coolant is most often found in "closed" coolant systems where the entire system, including the overflow, is pressurized.
HOAT, as you may have guessed, is similar to OAT, except for that it also has silicates in it. This is seen by many as the best of both worlds, and Chrysler, Ford, Mercedes and BMW (among others) tend to agree. This type of coolant is most often used in "open" coolant systems that have non-pressurized overflows.
Here's where the arguments arise. Can you mix the different types? IAT and OAT cannot be mixed. Their rust inhibiting packages are just too different, and in some cases react to each other. Don't do it. HOAT can be added to either of the others with these caveats: 1) adding HOAT to IAT does not lengthen the service life of the IAT. You should still change it at the recommended IAT intervals. 2) Adding OAT to an "open" HOAT system has been known to cause build-up issues in the radiator and passages of some vehicles. Your best bet if you want to use a different type, is to completely flush the old type of coolant out before pouring the new in, as this rarely causes issues.
In conclusion, is there a "universal" coolant that can be added to any "color" that is already in your system? Absolutely not, and many coolant MFGs are being sued over such claims. You cannot have a coolant that meets both the silicate specs of IAT and the non-silicate specs of OAT at the same time. It cannot be done. As NV290 said, when it comes to any Chrysler vehicle from '02+, there is no reason not to use HOAT coolant. Valvoline Zerex G-05 is very popular, and the Chrysler MS-9769 is not much more expensive and available at pretty much any dealership. I changed mine a few days ago at around 60k, and it came out as clean and clear as the new stuff that went in.
Here's the Cliff notes:
First and foremost, any type of coolant can be whatever color the MFG decides to color it, so do not go by color, only go by type.
There are three basic types of modern coolant, and they all contain an ethylene glycol base, water, dye and an additive package. Each type is referred to by the additive package it contains:
- Inorganic Acid Technology (IAT)
- Organic Acid Technology (OAT, also known as Dex-Cool)
- Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT, also known as formula G O-5)
IAT is almost always green, and is what most people would associate with "regular" coolant. It gets its name from the inorganic rust inhibitor package it contains, and has a rather high silicate content. The nature of this package causes it to break down as it performs its job of prohibiting rust, and as it is exposed to air and heat/cool cycles. This is why the coolant needs to be replaced so often. There are no longer any vehicle MFGs that use this coolant in their vehicles.
OAT on the other hand, contains no silicates, and inhibits rust using a purely organic package. OAT coolant is most widely used in the US by GM, and different formulations are used by many MFGs in Europe and Japan. This type of coolant is most often found in "closed" coolant systems where the entire system, including the overflow, is pressurized.
HOAT, as you may have guessed, is similar to OAT, except for that it also has silicates in it. This is seen by many as the best of both worlds, and Chrysler, Ford, Mercedes and BMW (among others) tend to agree. This type of coolant is most often used in "open" coolant systems that have non-pressurized overflows.
Here's where the arguments arise. Can you mix the different types? IAT and OAT cannot be mixed. Their rust inhibiting packages are just too different, and in some cases react to each other. Don't do it. HOAT can be added to either of the others with these caveats: 1) adding HOAT to IAT does not lengthen the service life of the IAT. You should still change it at the recommended IAT intervals. 2) Adding OAT to an "open" HOAT system has been known to cause build-up issues in the radiator and passages of some vehicles. Your best bet if you want to use a different type, is to completely flush the old type of coolant out before pouring the new in, as this rarely causes issues.
In conclusion, is there a "universal" coolant that can be added to any "color" that is already in your system? Absolutely not, and many coolant MFGs are being sued over such claims. You cannot have a coolant that meets both the silicate specs of IAT and the non-silicate specs of OAT at the same time. It cannot be done. As NV290 said, when it comes to any Chrysler vehicle from '02+, there is no reason not to use HOAT coolant. Valvoline Zerex G-05 is very popular, and the Chrysler MS-9769 is not much more expensive and available at pretty much any dealership. I changed mine a few days ago at around 60k, and it came out as clean and clear as the new stuff that went in.
#5
02-21-2012, 01:23 PM
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#6
02-21-2012, 02:55 PM
Brandon gives excellent advice. Use the G-05 Zerex or HOAT from Dodge. ANY Chrylser dealer can get and i would be shocked if it was not in stock. It's used in many of their cars. It costs a little more then other high end coolant but worth it. Considering you only need it once every 5 years/100,000 miles. It is an EXCELLENT coolant and the idea of saving a few bucks (likley less then $10 total) by using something else is just stupid.
A few words of advice...
1. Buy distilled water for the refill. Auto parts stores and most pharmacies carry it. It's cheap, like $2.00 a gallon. But it has no impurities in it. This will eliminate any chance of mineral scale through water.
2. I bought a flushing chemical when i did my coolant change at around 80k but did not need it. I drained my coolant into a white bucket and it was clean with no trace of any deposits. The inside of the radiator looked like new. So using a flush chemical would be a waste of time and effort. I just returned it. If when you you drain the coolant it and the radiator looks fine, skip that step. If their was a an issue with scale and rust, you would see it right away.
3. Don't cut the factory heater hoses to install a flushing T. You don't want a cheap piece of plastic installed in your heater system all the time (i have seen them crack on other vehicles). Just buy a short piece of heater hose of the same diamater at the Auto Parts store attach that the to engine, then the flush T to it and then the factory heater hose to that. This way when your done, you can reconnect the factory heater hose to the metal tube with no worry about plastic in the system.
4. When using a flushing T, NEVER have the radiator cap on the radiator! Most automotive cooling systems operate at less then 20psi. Most home water pressure is well over twice that. Mine is almost three times. If you put that much pressure AND volume in your cooling system, the cap will likley not be able to relive the pressure to the point it will prevent damage. When i worked in a shop, we saw a few people who caused damage by not following instructions.
5. Before installing the flushing T, hold a garden hose over the supply side of the heater hose where it's disconnected from the engine and run water through it with the bottom radiator hose still disconnected. This will flush out a good deal of the old coolant. Then reconnect it and refill the system with just water to flush the rest out.
6. Lastly, when refilling the system, add the manufacturers reccomended amount of coolant completley FIRST before adding water. Unless you pull the block plugs, their will be water and diluted coolant left in the block. This will not be a big deal so long as the proper coolant amount is poured in. Then top off with distilled water.
Good luck!
A few words of advice...
1. Buy distilled water for the refill. Auto parts stores and most pharmacies carry it. It's cheap, like $2.00 a gallon. But it has no impurities in it. This will eliminate any chance of mineral scale through water.
2. I bought a flushing chemical when i did my coolant change at around 80k but did not need it. I drained my coolant into a white bucket and it was clean with no trace of any deposits. The inside of the radiator looked like new. So using a flush chemical would be a waste of time and effort. I just returned it. If when you you drain the coolant it and the radiator looks fine, skip that step. If their was a an issue with scale and rust, you would see it right away.
3. Don't cut the factory heater hoses to install a flushing T. You don't want a cheap piece of plastic installed in your heater system all the time (i have seen them crack on other vehicles). Just buy a short piece of heater hose of the same diamater at the Auto Parts store attach that the to engine, then the flush T to it and then the factory heater hose to that. This way when your done, you can reconnect the factory heater hose to the metal tube with no worry about plastic in the system.
4. When using a flushing T, NEVER have the radiator cap on the radiator! Most automotive cooling systems operate at less then 20psi. Most home water pressure is well over twice that. Mine is almost three times. If you put that much pressure AND volume in your cooling system, the cap will likley not be able to relive the pressure to the point it will prevent damage. When i worked in a shop, we saw a few people who caused damage by not following instructions.
5. Before installing the flushing T, hold a garden hose over the supply side of the heater hose where it's disconnected from the engine and run water through it with the bottom radiator hose still disconnected. This will flush out a good deal of the old coolant. Then reconnect it and refill the system with just water to flush the rest out.
6. Lastly, when refilling the system, add the manufacturers reccomended amount of coolant completley FIRST before adding water. Unless you pull the block plugs, their will be water and diluted coolant left in the block. This will not be a big deal so long as the proper coolant amount is poured in. Then top off with distilled water.
Good luck!
#7
02-21-2012, 04:51 PM
Champion
... 4. When using a flushing T, NEVER have the radiator cap on the radiator! Most automotive cooling systems operate at less then 20psi. Most home water pressure is well over twice that. Mine is almost three times. If you put that much pressure AND volume in your cooling system, the cap will likley not be able to relive the pressure to the point it will prevent damage. When i worked in a shop, we saw a few people who caused damage by not following instructions...
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#8
02-22-2012, 11:19 PM
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#9
03-04-2012, 06:42 PM
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The G0 5 coolant from Chrysler has additives that lubricate the water pump in the engine. That is well documented, not a rumour. The additive seems mandatory ... using a HOAT antifreeze without this additive has been said to lead to water pump failures in new-ish Chrysler/Dodge vehicles.
Read your owner's manual since these antifreezes are not compatible with copper, brass or soldered radiator or cooling system components, and will attack these components, leading to failure. You need an all-aluminum cooling system to use HOAT or GO 5. Not every Chrysler product should use it, so find out the requirements for the cooling system in your vehicle.
The HOAT formula has been linked to Daimler-Chrysler merger; Mercedes was the first OEM to require it. It was developed by BASF during the 1980's; the additive package is sold by BASF as Glysantin G 05. It was widely specified in European vehicles prior to Chrysler's introduction of the product to North American built vehicles.
The GO 5 MOPAR antifreeze is orange in color. Although you can buy GO 5 and HOAT antifreeze from aftermarket suppliers and from Ford and Mercedes, and it is long life and compatible with aluminum cooling systems, there is still some question regarding the water pump lubricant additive. Until I can get some hard evidence one way or the other, I'm going to stick with the MOPAR antifreeze.
If you bother to dig, you will find that antifreeze formulas differ widely in the world market. Japanese vehicles do not use the same types of antifreeze in the home market, for example, as they do for vehicles manufactured for the US market, and the cooling systems themselves differ somewhat.
My suspicion is because there is a possibility the MOPAR antifreeze is not compatible with other OEM's, which would mean the additive is not included in aftermarket universal GO 5 / HOAT formulas (eg Zerex, mfg by Valvoline). Valvoline does say it's approved by Chrysler and Ford, and uses "the original full chemistry in newer Ford and Daimler Chrysler vehicles" but that doesn't mean the water pump lubricant additive is present, nor is any additive mentioned. On the other hand it meets Chrysler MS 9769 which is the requirement for the newer vehicles. The relevant Mercedes spec is Mercedes Benz DBL 7700.
The Chrysler MS 7170 is the old coolant. Don't use it in vehicles that specify GO 5 or HOAT unless MS 9769 is also listed.
What vehicles need 9769:
LH Body: All since 1998 Model Year
Minivan: All since 2000 MY
Passenger Car: All since 2001 MY
Jeep/Truck: All since 2002 MY except AB and Lago Alberto built
Viper: All since 2003 MY
Crossfire: All
Sprinter: All
Read your owner's manual since these antifreezes are not compatible with copper, brass or soldered radiator or cooling system components, and will attack these components, leading to failure. You need an all-aluminum cooling system to use HOAT or GO 5. Not every Chrysler product should use it, so find out the requirements for the cooling system in your vehicle.
The HOAT formula has been linked to Daimler-Chrysler merger; Mercedes was the first OEM to require it. It was developed by BASF during the 1980's; the additive package is sold by BASF as Glysantin G 05. It was widely specified in European vehicles prior to Chrysler's introduction of the product to North American built vehicles.
The GO 5 MOPAR antifreeze is orange in color. Although you can buy GO 5 and HOAT antifreeze from aftermarket suppliers and from Ford and Mercedes, and it is long life and compatible with aluminum cooling systems, there is still some question regarding the water pump lubricant additive. Until I can get some hard evidence one way or the other, I'm going to stick with the MOPAR antifreeze.
If you bother to dig, you will find that antifreeze formulas differ widely in the world market. Japanese vehicles do not use the same types of antifreeze in the home market, for example, as they do for vehicles manufactured for the US market, and the cooling systems themselves differ somewhat.
My suspicion is because there is a possibility the MOPAR antifreeze is not compatible with other OEM's, which would mean the additive is not included in aftermarket universal GO 5 / HOAT formulas (eg Zerex, mfg by Valvoline). Valvoline does say it's approved by Chrysler and Ford, and uses "the original full chemistry in newer Ford and Daimler Chrysler vehicles" but that doesn't mean the water pump lubricant additive is present, nor is any additive mentioned. On the other hand it meets Chrysler MS 9769 which is the requirement for the newer vehicles. The relevant Mercedes spec is Mercedes Benz DBL 7700.
The Chrysler MS 7170 is the old coolant. Don't use it in vehicles that specify GO 5 or HOAT unless MS 9769 is also listed.
What vehicles need 9769:
LH Body: All since 1998 Model Year
Minivan: All since 2000 MY
Passenger Car: All since 2001 MY
Jeep/Truck: All since 2002 MY except AB and Lago Alberto built
Viper: All since 2003 MY
Crossfire: All
Sprinter: All
Last edited by Johnny2Bad; 03-04-2012 at 07:40 PM.
#10
03-04-2012, 08:23 PM
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