I currently own an '04 dodge ram 1500 (4.7l) that is a gasoline engine. I realize dodge sold a version of the 4.7L v8's with flex fuel.

My question is are the motors the same? Injectors the same? Fuel pump the same? Obviously the computer must be different to have the different fuel maps.

 

Do not run E85 in a vehicle not designated as being able to run E85. Ethanol is a very corrosive alcohol and in that heavy a dosage will eat up all kinds of things on you.
Besides, 99% of people with E85 vehicles run E10 anyway, it's cheaper yes, but fuel economy is so poor with E85 that it's actually cheaper to run E10 (or especially ethanol free gas).
Even our beloved government which doesn't always tell us the 100% truth, acknowledges a 25% fuel economy loss when running E85. Real numbers are often more like 33-40%...

 

The flex fuel vehicles have a special fuel sensor that tells the computer what mixture of fuel is flowing to the injectors so the mapping tables can be shifted. E-85 does need to be enriched between 23% & 27%. E-85 really isn't E-85 all the time. During the cool winter months it is E-70.

I beleive that you will not be able to convert your non-flex fuel system to a flex fuel system easily or cheaply. It would be better to just find one of the factory built versions to play with this option.

I have a friend who has a Ford 1/2 ton truck with this option and rode around with him yesterday and couldn't tell the difference in performance. The difference was he paid 3.25 per gal for the E-85 instead of 3.79 per gal for 87 octane fuel. This had a savings of 54 cents but it really wasn't a savings at all. He was claiming that his fuel mileage only dropped 2 to 3 mpg. 17 mpg to 14 mpg is about a 18% reduction. That means the cost of the fuel would have to be 3.11 per gal to break even. Normal fuel enrichment should be at lest 23% but the computer can add a bit of ignition advance so the milage hit was 18% instad of 23%.

The amount of energy used to create E-85 vs. the amount of energy we get burning it just doesn't make sense. If we look at the cost of 91 octane fuel it starts to make more sense. If we look at E-85 compaired to Race fuel the math now starts to make more sense. We can run 14.5:1 compression and make some great power at less money than racing fuel.

Here in Phoenix it is still hard to find gas stations with E-85. You have to know were all the stations are and plan things better if you really want to use it.

 

I am not one to comment on how to do the conversion. I do not know anything about it. I also will not be so dumb as to try to debate Hammer on using alcohol fuels in our Ram trucks.

However, I will comment that David Pimentel's report in 2005 is where this idea comes from

and that report has been called into question and, in my research, is not credible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol...energy_balance
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...ethanolenergy/
http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmg...gy_balance.pdf

The Pimentel study counted the energy required in every step along the process to make ethanol. transport, seeding, growing (I don't know the last time any of you had to pay for the energy of the sun while plants are growing...), irrigation, reaping, etc. While his comparison did not count to the same detail all of the steps required for other energy types. If you counted what is required for other types of energy to that detail there was no other form of energy that passed his criteria, either.

The best resource for debunking the Pimentel study was Zubrin's book.
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Victory...1150401&sr=1-7


At the same time this is completely true of alcohol fuels...

When you run alcohol you can bump up the compression and get a great boost in power output.

 

Are you sure? The very first flex fuel vehicles (FFV) from Ford in the late 70s, early 80s that were done for the State of California had optical fuel type sensors, but all more modern FFV use the O2 sensor to regulate fuel flow. Though, I think you have to have larger injectors when you run alcohol (not completely sure about that) I am not certain you have to have a sensor to determine fuel type.

 

Inside your fuel door should be a sticker, it tells you if you can run E85 or not. There's a whole section in your owners manual that tells you about using E85 and what to do if you do. If you dont have an owners manual go to the RAM website, you can still download one for a 2004 for free!

If you have your window sticker or build sheet check the sales code for your engine, Both 4.7's for 2004 are "Magnum" engines. Sale code EVA is the gas only engine, EVD is the flex fuel/E85 compatible engine.

 

E85 doesnt save you any money, but instead makes you fill up more often.

Dollar for dollar, standard gasoline is better, even though most grades have up to 10%anyways. Far from 85% though.

 

As far as performance and mileage goes true that!
I believe the initiative of E85 is to push the alternative fuel agenda and not be so dependent on crude oil thing.

 

I know this is an old thread however some replies have been discounting a swap to E85 without regard for modifications necessary to complete this type of swap.. The responders didn't even know where "mjk152354" lives, he could live in Iowa and have $ .90/ gallon E85 fuel everywhere.

As the E85 game was aimed straight at offsetting so called fossil fuels use, and having owned a GMC Yukon with Flex I dug into what were the necessary parts to enable the 5.7L Hemi, I upgraded a 2008 Chrysler Aspen 5.7 fuel system to accept E85 in a 1968 D100, my goals were purely selfish in my goal to attain 550HP at the drive wheels using a 78/75mm turbo and intercooler on just 10lbs of boost. However the beauty of a factory enabled E85 system is it's larger volume capacity to accommodate the 29% extra fuel delivery to match the engines demands, including larger injectors, I suggest shopping for E85 injectors that fit your application without much modification before you begin.
Note: I lived through the 10% alcohol fuel in Beacon and Mohawk stations in the mid 70's, and while everyone was having soft fuel line issues and bitching about fuel economy and $5/ gallon fuel (After 6 PM), my dad and I went to the IMSA and USAC races and learned all about what to do to "Adjust" your fuel system for ethanol, as even in 1975 you could buy an alcohol optimized carburetor. So my first hot rod Challenger had mechanical fuel injection from a Sprint car, I ran 10% Gasoline after the famous fire in the Trans Am/ Can AM pitts at Laguna Seca when a pure alcohol fire broke out and no one could see the flames, burning several innocent people trying to help. (The 10% smokes and turns black so you can see the flames).
So the fear of this fuel is odd to me, as I am now showing my grandson Sloppy Mechanics on Youtube which clarified the benefits for him in visual terms, Sloppy Mechanics demonstrates a nets a return on investment worthy of this upgrade. It is a street racers dream, lower temps under the hood, increase of 20% in power with minor programing in a mostly stock 4.8 liter V8. For my toys I love it as I can run much smaller displacement street engines, my latest 5.7L Aspen Hemi D100 project, has been optimized for E85, and as I am in the Southwest the power increase on a hot day is valuable to me, also this forced me to run fuel injection on my hot rod, so I can drive it in Flagstaff at 6500' as well as in Lake Havasu City AZ at 500' above sea level, with no adjustments.

Conversion Parts:
I found most of the sensors necessary for my swap on Ebay for under $75/ each, and the first ECM I used on the 5.7 Hemi was actually a Chevy Tahoe '01 unit that could be "E85 Enabled" with minor programing, I did need to buy a 24X tone ring to match the HemiTronix GM computer that fit the Hemi 5.7L crankshaft from Nutter Racing. I did have a professional tuner re-map this on a dyno so as to not lean out the engine and ensure all sensors were functioning as well as on my Yukon.

NOTE: My take on the Media Slander of E85 was the same as for Diesel fuel; You and I, "If shortages develop" Can in fact temporarily make our own alcohol based fuels as well as bio diesel from organic matter without electricity, thus freeing us from fear of Oil embargos and Government fuel tax initiatives,(Green Taxes) as found in Boston MA and San Francisco CA. Even Mother earth news had an article on converting your lawn mower to ethanol in the '70's. which I applied to our lawn mower for a High School science project.
(Just be sure to pay your road tax to the Federal Govt and state governments, same as you would for your Electric Vehicles)

As the original thread was written in 2012, has anyone else modified a modern Hemi to run on E85?