1989 Dodge RAM B350 stalls (318cui)
#1
08-09-2012, 04:52 AM
1989 Dodge RAM B350 stalls (318cui)
Hi guys,
Before I describe my problem I would like to explain that I've done extensive search on this forum and on other places to try to get an answer.
It occurs to me that stalling problems can behave very differently from case to case so I want to describe what has happened to me.
My 1989 Dodge Ram Van B350 with the 318 engine has been running great for several years. Occassionally I had stalling problems
when coming to red lights or braking heavily. However, I could turn the key immediately and it would start right away.
I should also mention that on heavily rainy days, when going through deep puddles of water it would stall similarly, probably because
of electric components going wet.
However, a couple of weeks ago the engine would stall when I was driving in town. I got approximately 3 kilometers before this happened.
When trying to start, it would just turn but not actually start. I waited for a couple of minutes and then it started up fine. I let it sit for a couple of
hours and then tried to drive it home, it would stall 2 times during the same three kilometers and both times not start for a couple of minutes.
I changed the spark plug wires, the coil and the distributor cap even though it did not seem like a problem with ignition. I wanted to change the rotor,
but the old was incredibly stuck and I could not bend it off with a considerable amount of force. Started the engine and let it
idle for 5-10 minutes, and it shut down again. I noticed the rpm seemed to slightly increase seconds before the stall.
I bought a new fuel filter and changed it. No change. I let it sit for a couple of weeks and decided yesterday I would take it to the garage.
Started her and went the 10+ kilometers to the garage - it ran fine the entire way.
Shut it down and let it sit for 20 minutes, started right up and idled for 10-15 minutes without problem. Since it was idling fine I tried
tapping the distributor housing(not the plastic cap) as someone informed me a stall when tapping the distributor while idling could provide
further information, but it kept going.
So I took it home again. Started it up this morning to go to work, approximately 3 kilometers and the engine dies again.
Would not start up for a couple of minutes. Perfect yesterday(a bit colder and really rainy) problem back today(sunny and a bit warmer).
This leads me to suspect that it's either a problem with fuel delivery, or a sensor gone bad. These are the facts:
* Engine runs smoothly without coughs or hesitation until it stalls
* Feels like someone just turns the ignition off, no warning what so ever
* Computer reads no error codes
* Exhaust smoke does not have any "bad" colour
* Vehicle does not smell of gasoline when stalling
* It seems to happen at approximately the same length of time after start
* It wont start for a couple of minutes after stalling
* It will stall both when idling or operating
* Speed or throttle does not seem to matter, it stalls in any case.
This could be a faulty fuel pump since fuel injected cars are really sensitive to pressure. However, before I change it I would like to
rule out other cheaper components. It is in my understanding that this could also be caused by:
* Hall effect sensor (If the 318 is equipped with it?)
* MAP sensor
* Idle speed motor
* Camshaft sensor
* Crankshaft sensor
* Auto shut down relay
* Oxygen sensor
* EGR
etc
I am in no way a mechanic so I want to know if anyone has had similar problems? Also I wonder about the EGR.
Are 318's from 89 normally equipped with these? I have a Chrysler with a 400cui engine and on that engine the EGR is on the left
side of the carburetor if looking from back of engine. On the 318 in my Dodge the same spot just seems to have a block off plate.
Might be that someone removed the EGR though...
Sorry for a long description, but hey, it's better to get the info out there from the beginning, right?
Thank you in advance!
Before I describe my problem I would like to explain that I've done extensive search on this forum and on other places to try to get an answer.
It occurs to me that stalling problems can behave very differently from case to case so I want to describe what has happened to me.
My 1989 Dodge Ram Van B350 with the 318 engine has been running great for several years. Occassionally I had stalling problems
when coming to red lights or braking heavily. However, I could turn the key immediately and it would start right away.
I should also mention that on heavily rainy days, when going through deep puddles of water it would stall similarly, probably because
of electric components going wet.
However, a couple of weeks ago the engine would stall when I was driving in town. I got approximately 3 kilometers before this happened.
When trying to start, it would just turn but not actually start. I waited for a couple of minutes and then it started up fine. I let it sit for a couple of
hours and then tried to drive it home, it would stall 2 times during the same three kilometers and both times not start for a couple of minutes.
I changed the spark plug wires, the coil and the distributor cap even though it did not seem like a problem with ignition. I wanted to change the rotor,
but the old was incredibly stuck and I could not bend it off with a considerable amount of force. Started the engine and let it
idle for 5-10 minutes, and it shut down again. I noticed the rpm seemed to slightly increase seconds before the stall.
I bought a new fuel filter and changed it. No change. I let it sit for a couple of weeks and decided yesterday I would take it to the garage.
Started her and went the 10+ kilometers to the garage - it ran fine the entire way.
Shut it down and let it sit for 20 minutes, started right up and idled for 10-15 minutes without problem. Since it was idling fine I tried
tapping the distributor housing(not the plastic cap) as someone informed me a stall when tapping the distributor while idling could provide
further information, but it kept going.
So I took it home again. Started it up this morning to go to work, approximately 3 kilometers and the engine dies again.
Would not start up for a couple of minutes. Perfect yesterday(a bit colder and really rainy) problem back today(sunny and a bit warmer).
This leads me to suspect that it's either a problem with fuel delivery, or a sensor gone bad. These are the facts:
* Engine runs smoothly without coughs or hesitation until it stalls
* Feels like someone just turns the ignition off, no warning what so ever
* Computer reads no error codes
* Exhaust smoke does not have any "bad" colour
* Vehicle does not smell of gasoline when stalling
* It seems to happen at approximately the same length of time after start
* It wont start for a couple of minutes after stalling
* It will stall both when idling or operating
* Speed or throttle does not seem to matter, it stalls in any case.
This could be a faulty fuel pump since fuel injected cars are really sensitive to pressure. However, before I change it I would like to
rule out other cheaper components. It is in my understanding that this could also be caused by:
* Hall effect sensor (If the 318 is equipped with it?)
* MAP sensor
* Idle speed motor
* Camshaft sensor
* Crankshaft sensor
* Auto shut down relay
* Oxygen sensor
* EGR
etc
I am in no way a mechanic so I want to know if anyone has had similar problems? Also I wonder about the EGR.
Are 318's from 89 normally equipped with these? I have a Chrysler with a 400cui engine and on that engine the EGR is on the left
side of the carburetor if looking from back of engine. On the 318 in my Dodge the same spot just seems to have a block off plate.
Might be that someone removed the EGR though...
Sorry for a long description, but hey, it's better to get the info out there from the beginning, right?
Thank you in advance!
#3
08-09-2012, 01:45 PM
The EGR would be in the location you mention.
The Hall effect sensor in the distributor is usually an all or nothing failure from what I have read.
Check the connectors at the engine computer, with the battery disconnected.
My '89 had had serious issues with crusty / loose connections and wires which corroded just outside the connector from the previous owner probing the wires and not sealing the holes afterward.
I've wound up drilling through the connector and inserting bare wire through the barrels for 3 wires which were unsalvageable, about 6 years ago and have been fine since. The 14 pin connector worked it's way loose once since then, and it was a random stall scenario that I zeroed in on quickly
The Hall effect sensor in the distributor is usually an all or nothing failure from what I have read.
Check the connectors at the engine computer, with the battery disconnected.
My '89 had had serious issues with crusty / loose connections and wires which corroded just outside the connector from the previous owner probing the wires and not sealing the holes afterward.
I've wound up drilling through the connector and inserting bare wire through the barrels for 3 wires which were unsalvageable, about 6 years ago and have been fine since. The 14 pin connector worked it's way loose once since then, and it was a random stall scenario that I zeroed in on quickly
#4
08-10-2012, 02:24 AM
#5
08-14-2012, 06:18 AM
I've wound up drilling through the connector and inserting bare wire through the barrels for 3 wires which were unsalvageable, about 6 years ago and have been fine since. The 14 pin connector worked it's way loose once since then, and it was a random stall scenario that I zeroed in on quickly
#7
08-16-2012, 01:46 PM
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#8
08-20-2012, 03:06 AM
Thank you all for the input. I am replacing the in-tank fuel pump and filter anyway. I know it might not be the problem but I removed the tank to have a look. The filter looks bad and there were some dirt at the bottom of the container in the tank so I figured it's probably a good idea any way.
The SMEC seems to be a good thing to investigate. Where is it located in the 1989 Dodge RAM van?
The SMEC seems to be a good thing to investigate. Where is it located in the 1989 Dodge RAM van?
#9
08-20-2012, 01:25 PM
#10
08-22-2012, 09:53 AM
Thank you bigsmoking421! Yes, the temp gauge reads accurate and is not alarmingly high at any time. Also, I moved the vehicle a few days ago. Had to get it the 10+ kilometers to the garage. The dodge had been sitting untouched for 8 hours.
It would stall several times. As opposed to earlier when it seemed to die at roughly the same ammount of time it now died after traveling just a 100 meters. Then after a kilometer, then after 50 meters, then after 3 kilometers and finally it drove fine for the remainder of the trip.
I just got the tank cleaned and I am about to put the new fuel pump in it. However, out of curiosity, can someone explain how the fuel pump assembly works? It's basically a "bucket" that contains the pump which is fitted with two electric wires.
Looks almost like this one:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2799/4...419c9db984.jpg
When this is lowered in tank, only the bottom part is covered by the plastic. Is it really a good idea to have two wires with 12 volts in the gas? Is it designed in a way that wont allow fuel to reach the wires, or how does it work?
It would stall several times. As opposed to earlier when it seemed to die at roughly the same ammount of time it now died after traveling just a 100 meters. Then after a kilometer, then after 50 meters, then after 3 kilometers and finally it drove fine for the remainder of the trip.
I just got the tank cleaned and I am about to put the new fuel pump in it. However, out of curiosity, can someone explain how the fuel pump assembly works? It's basically a "bucket" that contains the pump which is fitted with two electric wires.
Looks almost like this one:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2799/4...419c9db984.jpg
When this is lowered in tank, only the bottom part is covered by the plastic. Is it really a good idea to have two wires with 12 volts in the gas? Is it designed in a way that wont allow fuel to reach the wires, or how does it work?