Car will not crank, PCM problem
#1
04-08-2008, 09:53 AM
Car will not crank, PCM problem
Hi,
Five days ago I could not get my car to start. The starter would not even attempt to crank the engine. When I turned the key, everything would dim like the starter was going to start but it wouldn't crank. I replaced the battery, still nothing. I thought it was the starter and then replaced the starter. Still nothing. I also checked the fuses and relays by swaping the starter replay with the horn and all fuses and relays work fine. Finally, my friend Bill looked at the car on late Saturday andyelled at me for changing parts when I had not done a proper diagnose of the problem. Bill showed me that the problem was not the starter by checking all of the circuits with a circuit tester (everything gets power) and he also get the stater going by putting power to the starter solinoid. From this test, he beleives that the problem is the PCM (Powertrain Computer Module or engine computer) is dead. The reason he thinks this is because even by 'making' the starter crank by putting power on the starter solinoid, there is no fuel being pumped or spark being generated and if the PCM is dead then it will not send any power to the relays to get all of thoes things going. If fuel wa being pumped we should have smelled the engine starting to flood but this does not happen.
Ok, so yesterday I get another PCM that is SUPPOSED to be from the same make, model and year as my PCM but the software upgrade version does not match. I am not sure of the part number either now.I did not think it mattered, put it in and got PO513 codes from the computer. (Before I would get no codes from the computer.) I looked up the PO513 and it seems to be something about by passing the remote car alarm execpt I never had one. It now appears that I was wrong and it does matter about the software upgrade for the car computer. ( At least my car is now reading a code from a car computer, even if the computer is the wrong one.)
So, it appears now that I must match up or find a car computer (PCM) that will work in my car.
The old PCM computer part number is P05034199AD.
The old PCM computer software is P05034195AF ( The 4195AF is also bold on the top edge of the PCM.)
1: I see from the lists that there are parts with the PO5034199AD but I do not know which softwarre updates will work with my car. Is there any kind of chart or other information that will tell me this or must I match both exactly?
2: After the PCM is installed, is there any kind of registration or software update process with the VIN that must be done? It looks like to me that some of the PCM proceedures have instructions for putting in a VIN number into the PCM. Is this needed to get the PCM to work or can I just install the PCM and the car should start up?
3: If I get the correct PN (P05034199AD) does it matter what software update is running in it?
Other than this problem, the car was running fine and I hope to get it running again.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Louis J. Desy Jr.
LouisDesy@aol.com
Five days ago I could not get my car to start. The starter would not even attempt to crank the engine. When I turned the key, everything would dim like the starter was going to start but it wouldn't crank. I replaced the battery, still nothing. I thought it was the starter and then replaced the starter. Still nothing. I also checked the fuses and relays by swaping the starter replay with the horn and all fuses and relays work fine. Finally, my friend Bill looked at the car on late Saturday andyelled at me for changing parts when I had not done a proper diagnose of the problem. Bill showed me that the problem was not the starter by checking all of the circuits with a circuit tester (everything gets power) and he also get the stater going by putting power to the starter solinoid. From this test, he beleives that the problem is the PCM (Powertrain Computer Module or engine computer) is dead. The reason he thinks this is because even by 'making' the starter crank by putting power on the starter solinoid, there is no fuel being pumped or spark being generated and if the PCM is dead then it will not send any power to the relays to get all of thoes things going. If fuel wa being pumped we should have smelled the engine starting to flood but this does not happen.
Ok, so yesterday I get another PCM that is SUPPOSED to be from the same make, model and year as my PCM but the software upgrade version does not match. I am not sure of the part number either now.I did not think it mattered, put it in and got PO513 codes from the computer. (Before I would get no codes from the computer.) I looked up the PO513 and it seems to be something about by passing the remote car alarm execpt I never had one. It now appears that I was wrong and it does matter about the software upgrade for the car computer. ( At least my car is now reading a code from a car computer, even if the computer is the wrong one.)
So, it appears now that I must match up or find a car computer (PCM) that will work in my car.
The old PCM computer part number is P05034199AD.
The old PCM computer software is P05034195AF ( The 4195AF is also bold on the top edge of the PCM.)
1: I see from the lists that there are parts with the PO5034199AD but I do not know which softwarre updates will work with my car. Is there any kind of chart or other information that will tell me this or must I match both exactly?
2: After the PCM is installed, is there any kind of registration or software update process with the VIN that must be done? It looks like to me that some of the PCM proceedures have instructions for putting in a VIN number into the PCM. Is this needed to get the PCM to work or can I just install the PCM and the car should start up?
3: If I get the correct PN (P05034199AD) does it matter what software update is running in it?
Other than this problem, the car was running fine and I hope to get it running again.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Louis J. Desy Jr.
LouisDesy@aol.com
#2
04-08-2008, 02:21 PM
RE: Car will not crank, PCM problem / VIN MUST be programmed into PCM!
I found out what is wrong. It seems that you can't just change the PCM, but the VIN number MUST be programmed into the PCM. Until it is done, the car will not start (starter will not crank, no fuel and no spark) and just returns an code like P0513. I found a place that will ship the PCM WITH your VIN in it at:
http://www.soloecus.com/
If I had used them it would have only cost a little more but at least I would not had to:
1: Spend all day running around looking for a PCM that would work in my car.
2: Install the PCM.
3: Have the confusion and horror and tearing out of my hair when I couldn't figure out what was wrong and why it was not working.
4: Tow the car to the dealer so they can put the VIN in the car.
It is cheaper to get the PCM and tow it to the dealer ( $50 for the PCM from a junkyard plus $88 at the dealer plus the cost of the tow) but I gladly would have paid $199 to soloecus to get one delivered that was already programmed and ready to go!
I also found out that the way to tell if the PCM will work or not is your car is to look at the 4 numbers plus 2 characters that are in bold on the top edge of the PCM. The two characters are the softwarer version and do not matter since when it is programmed with the VIN the dealer can flash it with the latest software version. The four numbers DO matter and must match for the PCM to work in your car.
As an example:
My old, broken, PCM has 4195AF in bold in the top edge. The "new" junk yard PCM has 4195AJ. Since my 4195 is the same as the junkyard 4195, this unit will work in my car once the VIN is programmed in by the dealer.
It took me a while on the Internet to figure this out. If the VIN is not programmed into the VIN you will start to get PO513 errors and that it trying to start and bypassing one of the systems.
Thank you,
Louis J. Desy Jr.
http://www.soloecus.com/
If I had used them it would have only cost a little more but at least I would not had to:
1: Spend all day running around looking for a PCM that would work in my car.
2: Install the PCM.
3: Have the confusion and horror and tearing out of my hair when I couldn't figure out what was wrong and why it was not working.
4: Tow the car to the dealer so they can put the VIN in the car.
It is cheaper to get the PCM and tow it to the dealer ( $50 for the PCM from a junkyard plus $88 at the dealer plus the cost of the tow) but I gladly would have paid $199 to soloecus to get one delivered that was already programmed and ready to go!
I also found out that the way to tell if the PCM will work or not is your car is to look at the 4 numbers plus 2 characters that are in bold on the top edge of the PCM. The two characters are the softwarer version and do not matter since when it is programmed with the VIN the dealer can flash it with the latest software version. The four numbers DO matter and must match for the PCM to work in your car.
As an example:
My old, broken, PCM has 4195AF in bold in the top edge. The "new" junk yard PCM has 4195AJ. Since my 4195 is the same as the junkyard 4195, this unit will work in my car once the VIN is programmed in by the dealer.
It took me a while on the Internet to figure this out. If the VIN is not programmed into the VIN you will start to get PO513 errors and that it trying to start and bypassing one of the systems.
Thank you,
Louis J. Desy Jr.
#3
04-10-2008, 12:58 PM
Car will not start, starter does not crank! - solution
I found out the 'real' problem for my car.
Just to recap the problem:
Last week I drove my car somewhere, all was fine.
A few hours later I went to leave and it would not start. The lights would dim like it was going to start but nothing. Starter does not crank, no spark, no fuel. I jumped the car, still nothing. Checked the battery terminals, no problem. Changed the battery, still nothing. Checked the power to the fuse box, all is fine. Checked the relay and fuse for the starter, all is fine.Changed the starter, still nothing. Also, if I powered the solinoid on the new starter, the engine cranks but there it no fuel or spark or the car will not start. It is acting like the PCM is dead.Change the PCM, still nothing will happen. (Also I had to have the PCM programmed with the VIN since it came from another vehicle and was giving me a PO513 error code. I am told that even with the wrong VIN that thecarshould crank but them will shut down, sort of like starting the car with the wrong key or a spare key with no resistor for the car.)
The REAL problem was with a piece of metal that goes from the ignition key to the ignition switch. It had broke. When I would turn the key, this piece only moved the ignition switch part of the way, just enough to the on position but not enought to make the ignition switch to start the car. If I had taken the cover off of the steering column, put a key in the ignition tumblers and turned it to on and used a screwdriver to move the ignition switch to the start position, the car would have started! PLUS I would have seen the broken piece of metal fall out and seen what was missing!
The only indications that I have it was this is that it did seem to me as time went on that I had the 'push' the key a little more clokcwise to get it to start recently but not really enought to think anything was wrong.
Louis.
Just to recap the problem:
Last week I drove my car somewhere, all was fine.
A few hours later I went to leave and it would not start. The lights would dim like it was going to start but nothing. Starter does not crank, no spark, no fuel. I jumped the car, still nothing. Checked the battery terminals, no problem. Changed the battery, still nothing. Checked the power to the fuse box, all is fine. Checked the relay and fuse for the starter, all is fine.Changed the starter, still nothing. Also, if I powered the solinoid on the new starter, the engine cranks but there it no fuel or spark or the car will not start. It is acting like the PCM is dead.Change the PCM, still nothing will happen. (Also I had to have the PCM programmed with the VIN since it came from another vehicle and was giving me a PO513 error code. I am told that even with the wrong VIN that thecarshould crank but them will shut down, sort of like starting the car with the wrong key or a spare key with no resistor for the car.)
The REAL problem was with a piece of metal that goes from the ignition key to the ignition switch. It had broke. When I would turn the key, this piece only moved the ignition switch part of the way, just enough to the on position but not enought to make the ignition switch to start the car. If I had taken the cover off of the steering column, put a key in the ignition tumblers and turned it to on and used a screwdriver to move the ignition switch to the start position, the car would have started! PLUS I would have seen the broken piece of metal fall out and seen what was missing!
The only indications that I have it was this is that it did seem to me as time went on that I had the 'push' the key a little more clokcwise to get it to start recently but not really enought to think anything was wrong.
Louis.
