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Worn Timing Symptoms

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  #1  
Old 10-31-2007, 08:32 PM
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Aubrey Aubrey is offline
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Default Worn Timing Symptoms

What are the symptoms of a worn timing chain? I know mine has hit that mileage mark and needs to be replaced but I'm trying to find out what other items might be related. I get clacking at start up till oil pressure comes up. Never had it before. Is it related? When I get off the highway and come to a stop, my oil light comes on. Does the change in timing at a stop effect oil pressure? I get recently what sounds like knock right before the tranny shifts up. Is this related to timing being off?
I don't know how the timing changes from start up to warm to acceleration to cruise to idle...
Thank you for any help.
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  #2  
Old 10-31-2007, 08:51 PM
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

usually the best time you can find out if a chain is going bad is at idle - semi-warmed up
you will hear a ...hmm... how do i explain it... like a clacking sound like someone is dragging a small chain over the edge of a
metal table... like a rattling type of noise

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Old 10-31-2007, 09:35 PM
WayneC WayneC is offline
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

What you are describing doesn't sound like timing chain to me. Sounds more like oil pump. What type oil filter are you using? What grade oil?
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Old 10-31-2007, 09:40 PM
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

winter time you should be running thinner oil such as 5w30
if you do end up replacing oil pump, buy a high-volume oil pump instead of stock
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Old 10-31-2007, 10:21 PM
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

I have just over 174000 miles on her. I run 10w30 in the summer and 5w30 in the winter. Oil pressure is normal and other than the clackety at start up and the occassional blinky oil light, you wouldn't know there was an issue. I have always used Fram Sure Guard (orange with black grip). I tried a Napa Spinflow but that's when this started. I don't think it's related to the filter. I also just dumped half a can of Seafoam in the oil in hopes if I had a floater I'd be able to break it loose and drain it out. Nope.
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Old 10-31-2007, 10:37 PM
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

Just thought of this. This happened soon after I had my intake pan repair done. Do you think the oil light could be from a lose connection at that oil sending unit? Is the electrical connector disconnected during the intake pan repair?
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  #7  
Old 11-01-2007, 11:15 AM
ICEMAN_CH ICEMAN_CH is offline
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

I'm not sure but I think adding sefoam to your oil wold ruin your oil. I'm not sure though
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Old 11-01-2007, 11:53 AM
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Aubrey

I have just over 174000 miles on her. I run 10w30 in the summer and 5w30 in the winter. Oil pressure is normal and other than the clackety at start up and the occassional blinky oil light, you wouldn't know there was an issue. I have always used Fram Sure Guard (orange with black grip). I tried a Napa Spinflow but that's when this started. I don't think it's related to the filter. I also just dumped half a can of Seafoam in the oil in hopes if I had a floater I'd be able to break it loose and drain it out. Nope.
Seafoam in the oil??? Damn, drain a quart of oil and then use either a quart of kerosene or diesel fuel for about a 50 mile drive. Then drain, and add 5 fresh quarts of oil.

Also, Fram filters are a waste of money and are total crap. Wix or Perolator are the best.
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Old 11-01-2007, 08:01 PM
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

VW&D
You took the words right outa my mouth!
Fram is the worst on the market and that is not just my opinion. Do a search on the net regarding oil filters, you'll see what I mean. Also, yeah, flush the oil if you think you have gunk in there. I use mineral spirits each oil change just before draining. Diesel is also good. Ya might want to do it a few times in succession. Keep in mind though, 174K...things wear out. A little noise is gotta be expected. I'd blame Fram! You could also try re-seating the plug for the sending switch, but that's not making you start-up noise, only the light (but I doubt it, as it would be more constant).
If I can find some research I saved somewhere on oil flitters, I'll send that along.
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Old 11-01-2007, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

Found It! http://people.msoe.edu/%7Eyoderw/oil...tudy.html#fram
Here is a direct quote from the Fram Section,
"If you have a noisy valve train at startup, this filter is likely the cause."
Read the whole (rather lengthy) article though. Very enlightening.
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Old 11-02-2007, 08:50 PM
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

Yeah, I've read the oil filter article. That's when I switched to the one from Napa and then got this noise. I had thought it was the filter. Usually, when I take the Fram one off (I use the one that the article says is decent) oil gets all over the place. When I removed the Napa filter, no oil spilled at all but was in the filter itself. On the Napa filter, if you tip it upside down, you can hear something in their moving. So I put back on my normal filter selection. Noise and light continues. Tried Seafoam and replaced the oil and filter again. No change. I tried the cleaner / oil change to see if any crud was getting sucked up and causing blockage but now I'm not so sure.
I don't think it's the oil pump. The start up clacking goes away when the pressure comes up, the oil pressure is in the same range and moves as it always has. You wouldn't notice a single thing outside of the start up clack and that stupid light. So, if the timing chain is old and worn and is causing the clack till oil pressure and the puter adjusts timing, that is one thing. But I don't know if the timing change by the puter when you stop is causing the light or if it's something else.
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:43 PM
2k10HemiRam 2k10HemiRam is offline
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

Quote:
ORIGINAL: XXL 1500

usually the best time you can find out if a chain is going bad is at idle - semi-warmed up
you will hear a ...hmm... how do i explain it... like a clacking sound like someone is dragging a small chain over the edge of a
metal table... like a rattling type of noise

I hear that rattle noise at start-up, semi warm, and even when the engine is at normal temp while going through a drive through. If my timing change is bad then f*** me.
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:17 AM
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

Would worn timing cause your timing to be so far off that you'd run rich? I just got my emissions done yesterday and barely passed. I barely made it under the limit for gases that they say is due to a rich air/fuel mix. Not sure if that's a new cat and O2 sensor or a worn timing chaing that is causing it to run that way.
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

Could the noise be a lifter?
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Old 11-09-2007, 12:02 PM
Sixtysixdeuce Sixtysixdeuce is offline
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

Quote:
usually the best time you can find out if a chain is going bad is at idle - semi-warmed up
you will hear a ...hmm... how do i explain it... like a clacking sound like someone is dragging a small chain over the edge of a
metal table... like a rattling type of noise
That's about the best it can be described using text. +1

Quote:
I hear that rattle noise at start-up, semi warm, and even when the engine is at normal temp while going through a drive through.
could be, cut could also be low oil pressure or squishy lifters causing valvetrain clatter. Other possibilities too, and i'ts really gonna require a trained ear and stethoscope to accurately diagnose.

Quote:
Would worn timing cause your timing to be so far off that you'd run rich? I just got my emissions done yesterday and barely passed. I barely made it under the limit for gases that they say is due to a rich air/fuel mix. Not sure if that's a new cat and O2 sensor or a worn timing chaing that is causing it to run that way.
There are several possible causes for your high CO's, but cam timing isn't one of them. If it was so far off that raw fuel was dumping into the exhaust,it'd bebecause compression was too low to ignite the mixture. Obviously since cam timing would affect all 8 cylinders, the low compression/no ignition issue would mean no start. And CMP is used to control injector timing, not pulse width. That's the responsibility of the PCM using O2, MAP (or MAF), TPS and IAT inputs combined with RPM to calculate appropriate fuel trim for optiaml A/F ratio.

Your high CO readings are going to be one of those sensors reading incorrectly, too much fuel pressureor a failing cat. can't be sure without Datastream and a spectrometer (gas analyzer) but most likely the cat. A failed o2 will cause it to run rich (open loop) but will throw a code for slow response/no response/voltage too high/low. If hte O2's are reading right and it's one of the other sensors, the PCM will throw a P0172&0173 (Too rich banks 1&2) because maximum fuel trim to the lean end has been reached and it's still running too rich.
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Old 11-09-2007, 06:54 PM
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

The only codes I'm getting with the key cycle is 12, 37, 55. I still don't know what 37 is being caused by but I don't think it has any relation to my engine issue that's going on right now.
A month ago I tested temps on the cat and it seemed to come out ok but I guess it could still be flowing but just degrading. Also, do you think a failing EGR would do this? My exhaust temp is higher than it was when I had it tested 2 years ago. Maybe the EGR is causing both?
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Old 11-10-2007, 12:17 PM
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Default RE: Worn Timing Symptoms

Also, to add to the symptoms, after a chilly start up this morning, I had a light trail of smoke out of my tail pipe follow me for about two blocks.
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Old 11-10-2007, 12:17 PM
 
 
 
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