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360 plenum gasket leak question

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  #1  
Old 02-14-2008, 11:46 AM
rrbah rrbah is offline
 
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Default 360 plenum gasket leak question

I have read several posts about the gasket issue. I definitely need to investigate mine further since my oil is dissappearing as fast as I can add it.

My question is does this leak also affect performance and gas mileage? I am lucky if I can get 5 MPG downhill with the wind in OD.
Truck is 2500 stock other than 33's.
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:50 PM
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dhvaughan dhvaughan is offline
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

performance - yes. a LOT.
gas mileage - i don't think so.

take it one step at a time. tune up. front 02 sensor check for clogged cat. etc.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:25 PM
DamascusKnifemaker DamascusKnifemaker is offline
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

It will affect mileage since it is basically a big vacuum leak. I've gained almost 2 mpg since I did my plenum.
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  #4  
Old 02-15-2008, 10:16 AM
rrbah rrbah is offline
 
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

Thanks dhvaughan and DamascusKnifemaker for the replies. I suspected the CAT last summer and tested that. Everything tested good with that. Once it warms up outside I will need to repair the plenum and do a tune-up and replace the O2 sensor.
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  #5  
Old 02-15-2008, 12:24 PM
turkeyhunter1962 turkeyhunter1962 is offline
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

Since you are waiting for warmer weather to fix the plenum, do a search in the forum for the Hughes or APS billet plenum kits. Both work great from what I have heard. They replace the stamped steel plenum with a billte aluminum one. The plenum leak is caused by the stamped steel and the aluminum manifold expanding and contracting at different rates during engiine warmup and cool down. Just replacing the gasket still leaves you open to encountering this issue again in the future.

By replacing the plenum and gasket at the same time you eliminate the expansion issue, thereby eliminating the need to fix this problem again in the future. I have an APS plenum and would highly recommend either company to anybody that is going to fix their leaky plenum gasket.
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  #6  
Old 02-24-2008, 11:01 AM
Blaydrnnnr Blaydrnnnr is offline
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

Hi all,

I'm gearing up for a plenum upgrade myself..the job doesnt look too bad.. ( I have done alot of intake work on other models..ie...Chevy ) That being said.. this is my first Mopar...and my first experience with split gaskets...so..I have a question or two...

I know that you have to use some sealent in the corners where the intake, block and heads meet, do the gaskets that come with the Hughes kit overlap in this corner? lay over each other, then a bead laid on them in the corner? Or do they meet or have a small gap in that corner. I have seen some gaskets that had a "wave" pattern on the ends...( I think I saw oil pan gaskets for a Mopar that had this on the ends..??) if so.. is this so when the sealent is applied it fills this wave pattern? or is this cut off. All total newbie questions I know and apologise.. but honestly.. the only part of this whole project that scares me to death are the gaskets on this. Really dont want to have to tear this down again because I screwed up the corners on this intake. I'm also doing a 180 Tstat while I'm at it.
I would also like to know.. do you guys use any sealent on the block before placing the front and rear gaskets? If so.. I am assuming you are also usingsealent on the manifold in the areas where the front and rear gaskets are as well?or only in the corners? Any sealent being used on the new plenum gasket itself as well? And again.. I'm sure this is posted somewhere.. I have been searching.. but if you guys will put up with me....What sealents are you guys having good luck with on this repair? which is best for the corners, the front and rear gasket application? and the plenum gasket if sealent is used?
Thanks again for any replies!!!
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  #7  
Old 02-24-2008, 11:30 AM
Houston4x4 Houston4x4 is offline
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Blaydrnnnr

Hi all,

I'm gearing up for a plenum upgrade myself..the job doesnt look too bad.. ( I have done alot of intake work on other models..ie...Chevy ) That being said.. this is my first Mopar...and my first experience with split gaskets...so..I have a question or two...

I know that you have to use some sealent in the corners where the intake, block and heads meet, do the gaskets that come with the Hughes kit overlap in this corner? lay over each other, then a bead laid on them in the corner? Or do they meet or have a small gap in that corner. I have seen some gaskets that had a "wave" pattern on the ends...( I think I saw oil pan gaskets for a Mopar that had this on the ends..??) if so.. is this so when the sealent is applied it fills this wave pattern? or is this cut off. All total newbie questions I know and apologise.. but honestly.. the only part of this whole project that scares me to death are the gaskets on this. Really dont want to have to tear this down again because I screwed up the corners on this intake. I'm also doing a 180 Tstat while I'm at it.
I would also like to know.. do you guys use any sealent on the block before placing the front and rear gaskets? If so.. I am assuming you are also usingsealent on the manifold in the areas where the front and rear gaskets are as well?or only in the corners? Any sealent being used on the new plenum gasket itself as well? And again.. I'm sure this is posted somewhere.. I have been searching.. but if you guys will put up with me....What sealents are you guys having good luck with on this repair? which is best for the corners, the front and rear gasket application? and the plenum gasket if sealent is used?
Thanks again for any replies!!!

The APS kit comes with very detailed instructions.I think it tells you to putthe tube gasket in the corners. I've yet to do mine butI have the APS kit here.You have to get new bolts as well.
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  #8  
Old 02-24-2008, 11:39 AM
Blaydrnnnr Blaydrnnnr is offline
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

Yeah, I ordered both the plenum and intake kits.. so I have new bolts all around. Thanks.
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  #9  
Old 02-24-2008, 12:07 PM
Houston4x4 Houston4x4 is offline
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

For those looking to save a little cash, you can get the intakebolts seperate from Hughes for $15. And get the upper gasket from Autozone (Felpro) for $9.99. The APS kit minus the bolts comes with the lower gasket and has the new plenum bolts.

I don't see what else APS or Hughes gives you for the $45 - $50 for the new bolts and gasket.
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  #10  
Old 02-25-2008, 12:35 PM
Blaydrnnnr Blaydrnnnr is offline
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

Thanks Houston, I didnt even think to look.....could have saved a few bucks....live and learn.
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  #11  
Old 02-25-2008, 05:47 PM
WayneC WayneC is offline
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

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ORIGINAL: turkeyhunter1962

The plenum leak is caused by the stamped steel and the aluminum manifold expanding and contracting at different rates during engiine warmup and cool down. Just replacing the gasket still leaves you open to encountering this issue again in the future.

By replacing the plenum and gasket at the same time you eliminate the expansion issue, thereby eliminating the need to fix this problem again in the future.
Not trying to bust ***** here, but is there any proof of the dissimilar metals theory? That certainly seems to be the consensus on this forum. However, I have searched and researched this on this forum and on the web in general and have seen no proof that the plate expansion/contraction issue is what causes the gasket failure. What I have learned is that D-C originally used crappy composite gaskets and upgraded a couple of times till they finally figured some metal was in order.
If you think of it, there are all sorts of dissimilar metals gasketed to each other all through the engine. Valve covers to heads; oil pan to block; etc. Hell, I have a Mercury out in the garage that has PLASTIC valve covers. And newer models of that car have a PLASTIC INTAKE! Talk about dissimilar materials!
But isn't that one of the reasons for a gasket in the 1st place? 1, to seal the component; 2, to absorb the expansion and contraction.
Someone put in a call to HankLv. He no doubt has got some research in his arsenal regarding this. Me, I'm not buying that claim. It seems like since Hughes puts it in the sales pitch, IT MUST BE TRUE! So everyone jumps on the wagon. SHOW ME THE PROOF! Until then, I won't be buying a very expensive aluminum plate (even though my plenum gasket is fine at 85K miles). I expect one day the gasket will go and I'll have to replace it. That's what gaskets do. Granted I'd rather replace a valve cover gasket than that plenum booger, but fact is gaskets go eventually regardless of what they're sealing.
That's my view...let the flaming begin!
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Old 02-25-2008, 05:54 PM
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

All I can say is maybe you shouldn't get the pleneum kit and just get the regular gasket from Dodge. Then when you are having it go bad again not far down the road all of us with the APS or Hughes kit can say we told you so.


I've talked to several people that even with the new type gasket have had them go out quite often. I've yet to hear of one person having this issue with a Hughes or APS kit.

If you feel like you should save the money and just do the gaskets thats fine with me. It isn't my truck it's yours so you can do whatever you want with it.
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Old 02-25-2008, 07:35 PM
WayneC WayneC is offline
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

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ORIGINAL: hometheaterman
I've talked to several people that even with the new type gasket have had them go out quite often. I've yet to hear of one person having this issue with a Hughes or APS kit.

If you feel like you should save the money and just do the gaskets thats fine with me. It isn't my truck it's yours so you can do whatever you want with it.
HTM,
So maybe the aftermarket gaskets are superior to the D-C crap. I'll gladly give that idea its due as many an aftermarket improvement is better than OEM.
Also, it's not just about saving money, although that's never a bad thing, but why spend money on something that isn't proven to be the TRUE fault? Let's say, for example, my belly pan gasket finally does go out at 100K. I'd say that's good service even for an OEM gasket. If I can get another 100K out of another gasket, why sully the mix with extra parts simply because that may have been a contributor. That's all I'm saying.
As a bloated example, lets say that your engine has a misfire after 50K miles. That could be caused by any number of variables. So along comes the Acme company and says you need OUR kit to fix that. Their kit contains: plugs, cap, rotor, wires, blah, blah, blah, and a Super Duper HD coil. You get that kit and install it, and Shazzam, no more miss. Did the kit as a whole fix the problem? Did you just need an ordinary tune-up? Or was it their magical, mystical mega coil? You'll never know! It could have been one faulty plug, or poor quality OEM wires. But "they said..." and "I believe" And besides everyone else is doing it and they've had no further problems.
Has anyone who have gone the kit route had it on as long or as many miles as their OEM lasted yet (2000 and later)? I'm curious to know if it in fact gives better performance/results. Only time will tell here.
Who here has put, say, an aluminum rear end cover on their pig iron banjo? Dissimilar? You bet. Wrong? Who's to say?
WC
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Old 02-25-2008, 07:48 PM
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

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ORIGINAL: WayneC

Who here has put, say, an aluminum rear end cover on their pig iron banjo? Dissimilar? You bet. Wrong? Who's to say?
WC
Banjo = Wrong. There, I said it, and I feel as though a weight has been lifted from me.
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Old 02-25-2008, 08:15 PM
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

Here we go.................you have a good point Wayne C

Heres my 2 cents, I would rather spend the 130$ to make sure its not going to blow out or crack again

Unless, you love to pull the intake off your truck numerous times
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Old 02-25-2008, 08:22 PM
Houston4x4 Houston4x4 is offline
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

Aluminum does cool at a far different rate than the steel. Plus, add in the thickness of the materials mentioned. That has a factor in the cooling rate. The new plate is 3/16" thick. Making it similar in material and thickness to the actual plenum.

But you raise good points in going back with stock items to get back to what you had when the truck was new. Interms of ignition system to everything else. I think the point is, if you mush fix something, why not improve it too.
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:22 PM
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

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ORIGINAL: aim4squirrels


Banjo = Wrong. There, I said it, and I feel as though a weight has been lifted from me.
Alah be praised! You have earned your place!
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:01 PM
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

" Heres my 2 cents, I would rather spend the 130$ to make sure its not going to blow out or crack again"

"I think the point is, if you mush fix something, why not improve it too. "

But how do you know you're actually improving and ensuring it wont happen again. You see? All I'm asking is for the proof that the problem is the pan thickness/material. I'm not trying to make this a dollars and cents argument other than why spend money on a solution that there is no proof is a solution at all?

Houston, by your reasoning then my valve covers or oil pan, or transmission pan should be about a quarter of an inch thick so that everybody heats and cools evenly! Also, the thickness of the replacement pan, being aluminum, HAS to be thicker. A flat, unribbed sheet of aluminum the size of the belly pan wouldn't hold up at all if it were as thin as the OEM pan. It would warp and buckle under the stress. Probably leak within a month!

And something else to ponder: the hot oil splashing against the belly pan will make the belly pan much hotter, faster than the intake keg. It will also cool much slower than the keg. And from top to bottom, temps will be way cooler at the top of the intake than at the belly pan regardless of the material compatability. Therefore, they wont heat and cool at the same rate. To my way of thinking, that leaves the gasket as the main factor in the equation.
WC
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:52 PM
Houston4x4 Houston4x4 is offline
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Default RE: 360 plenum gasket leak question

You raise a valid arguement. But those three gaskets to mentioned are sure easier to get to and even visually inspect. Maybe the original gasket is the problem with it comming in contact with gas. I don't know. Butlike you mentioned, a flat plate will warp easier than valve covers, oil pan, or tranny pan. All three have a bowl shape and are therefore stronger.

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Old 02-25-2008, 11:52 PM
 
 
 
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