Go Back   DodgeForum.com > Dodge Trucks > Dodge Ram > 2nd Gen Ram Tech
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


2nd Gen Ram Tech 1994-2001 Rams: This section is for TECHNICAL discussions only, that involve the 1994 through 2001 Rams. For any non-tech discussions, please direct your attention to the "General discussion/NON-tech" sub sections.

Ram won't start

Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 05-01-2013, 11:52 PM
JulieC JulieC is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 26
Default Ram won't start

My son has a 1997 Dodge Ram 1500 4 x 4 - 5.9L

A week ago he went to help some friends out how were stuck in a grassy field area. There are trails on this area that are full of ruts. He was in the side that had some water but not alot but a pretty bumpy ride. He was in 2 wheel drive so not very deep.

He went through the puddle path and got onto the dry trail. The truck died on him. There were no lights or anything and it would not even attempt to start. He opened up the hood and saw that one of the wires on the positive battery terminal had come loose. He stripped the coating back and tightened down the terminal with the wire under it. The lights came on in the vehicle now and he was able to get it to turn over but it wouldn't start.

He couldn't get it started that night so the next day we had it towed into his work. He has been trying to diagnose what is causing it and here is what he found so far:

There is no spark, the fuel pump does not turn on so it is not getting any fuel, and when you try to start it, the RPM gauge does not move. The TOW truck driver thought it would be the crankshaft position sensor. He is having trouble locating that but knows the general area of it.

He changed out a blown fuse in the interior box for the cigarette lighter. He changed a fusible link in the engine box that was marked for the trailer. He changed out the ASD sensor which was actually testing good. Today he opened up the distributor and looked for moisture and found none. They tested for spark at the coil and found no power going to that so it was swapped out for a new one. It sounds stronger since that was changed but still will not start, even with starting fluid in the throttle.

Any ideas what to try next? From searching the web most people are saying crankshaft position sensor or the PCM. Another thought was the ignition switch but not sure how to test any of these to see if they are good.

Also worried that if the wire came out of the positive battery, could it have shorted out the link and fuse and possibly something else but don't know where to start to figure it out. A friend told him it appears that it may have gone into some type of safety mode since there is no spark or fuel.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to get all the details out.
This ad is not displayed to registered and logged-in members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Dodge Forums!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-02-2013, 12:23 AM
dodge dude94 dodge dude94 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Vehicle: 1998 Ram 1500 QCSB 360 4x4
Location: East Texas
Posts: 8,923
Default

It's possible that water could have gotten up into the Crankshaft position sensor and fudged it up. Granted, this is, of course, assuming the CKSP sensor was likely already fudged up before the water got to it.


The Crankshaft Position Sensor is located between the transmission and the engine, on the backside of the engine. It's really awkward to get to and you'll get pretty dirty in the process.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-02-2013, 09:41 AM
HeyYou's Avatar
HeyYou HeyYou is offline
Section Moderator
Dodge Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Vehicle: 1996 Dodge Ram 2500
Location: Adrian, MI
Posts: 34,312
Default

Crank sensor is behind the passenger side head. Right on the bell housing. Better have your arm with three elbows to change that.

Keep in mind, you will only have power at the coil for about three seconds when you turn the key on, unless the PCM sees the engine turning. (crank or cam sensor)

Test for power at the coil when the key is first turned on. Also test for power at one of the injectors when the key is first turned on.

Fuel pump should prime when you turn the key. If it isn't, you have an asd event going on. Search for posts by cmckenna for some REALLY good troubleshooting hints.
__________________
1996 Ram 2500 5.9 EC/SB Gas, Auto, 4x4, Hughes plenum plate, Kegger mod, double roller timing set, rest is stock. For now.....
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-02-2013, 02:50 PM
JulieC JulieC is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 26
Default

Thanks! When we checked for power at the coil, we had some type of gauge hooked up that lights up if it gets power and it did not light at all. The ASD relay tested as good but maybe that could be the problem? The fuel pump does not prime when you turn the key so we have no fuel or spark. I'll check out the posts you refer to by cmckenna.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-02-2013, 04:56 PM
JulieC JulieC is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 26
Default

Sorry but I have probably a dumb question. In looking at what the CKPS looks like, it has a wire attached with a connector. Where does the connector plug in?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-02-2013, 05:17 PM
zman17's Avatar
zman17 zman17 is offline
Registered User
Dodge Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2008
Vehicle: 2000 2500HD 4x4 5.9
Location: NH
Posts: 18,729
Default

It plugs in to the harness around the back right side of the distributor. Look for a hanging opposite plug connection back there some where.
__________________
2000 2500HD 4X4 5.9 and 4:10's,HF tuned SCT,Red-Head gear box, HS 1.7's,
50mm Fastman TB, Hughes Plate,2" Hell Bent ,Volant CAI
Flowmaster 50 series, Rock Solid Ram Steering fix,B&M trans cooler,fuzzy dice good for 5HP
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-03-2013, 07:26 AM
Chroma's Avatar
Chroma Chroma is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Vehicle: 1996 Dodge Ram 1500
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Posts: 43
Arfgerter zmralston
Default

Have fun with the crank sensor. Lol, I did.
Take off the intake and its A LOT easier to get to the distributer cap. You can feel the two bolts holding on the CKPS if you weasel your hand in between the firewall and the passenger side exhaust manifold. It's on top of the bell housing at a 2 o'clock position, or 10 o'clock if you are laying across the motor.
They should be 1/2" bolts holding it on and they are a pain in the *** to get to because the tranny dipstick hose is in the way for the second one. It is possible though. Also make sure you route that wire around everything or you will be a half a inch short like I was and have to reroute it. It is a pain in the *** but once you do it once you will become a pro.

First time took me about 5 hours because I had to many beers. Now I can change one out in about 5 minutes.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-03-2013, 09:03 AM
JulieC JulieC is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 26
Default

Thanks ZMan. I figured it was an easy spot but couldn't find confirmation. He noticed when he put the distributor cap on that there was a wire with a connector that was loose on the right side of the distributor. I'm wondering if that could be the sensor that is unplugged all along, maybe from the ruts he hit or if someone unplugged it when they were trying to diagnose the problem. He works at an oil change place so he has people around him that know some things about vehicles but they have been stumped on this one. Of course they haven't been able to get into it much because they have been so busy.

Thanks Chroma. I'll make sure to tell him not to drink beer until AFTER he changes it. I'm thinking based on other posts I've seen that it might be easier for him to put it on the lift and reach up to it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-03-2013, 10:43 AM
dodge dude94 dodge dude94 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Vehicle: 1998 Ram 1500 QCSB 360 4x4
Location: East Texas
Posts: 8,923
Default

A plug right next to the distributor could also be the camshaft position sensor.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-04-2013, 08:17 AM
Chroma's Avatar
Chroma Chroma is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Vehicle: 1996 Dodge Ram 1500
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Posts: 43
Arfgerter zmralston
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieC View Post
Thanks ZMan. I figured it was an easy spot but couldn't find confirmation. He noticed when he put the distributor cap on that there was a wire with a connector that was loose on the right side of the distributor. I'm wondering if that could be the sensor that is unplugged all along, maybe from the ruts he hit or if someone unplugged it when they were trying to diagnose the problem. He works at an oil change place so he has people around him that know some things about vehicles but they have been stumped on this one. Of course they haven't been able to get into it much because they have been so busy.

Thanks Chroma. I'll make sure to tell him not to drink beer until AFTER he changes it. I'm thinking based on other posts I've seen that it might be easier for him to put it on the lift and reach up to it.

Don't put it on the lift. It's WAYYYY easier to get to from the top. Tell him to just lay across the motor, it's a two hand job. One for CKPS and one for the wire.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-04-2013, 05:49 PM
gdstock's Avatar
gdstock gdstock is offline
Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Vehicle: 1999 Ram 1500, 5.2L auto
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,257
Default

I would suggest checking everything around the PDC and the wiring at the battery since there has already been an issue discovered there. The likelihood that something not related this just suddenly and by coincidence (like crank sensor) failed is about as good as winning the lottery.

Double check wiring from PDC and the small connector on the coil for power. And if there is a connector by distributor that the CKS is NOT plugged into, that has to be connected. Just verify that it is not just an extra connector for something that did not come on the truck.
__________________
Ram 1500, 5.2L, 2wd, hardened trans with Derale pan, Hayden trans cooler, kegger mod, SCT tuned. New metallic black paint, TCP e-fans, HS 1.7 Rockers, restored interior.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:26 PM
JulieC JulieC is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdstock View Post
I would suggest checking everything around the PDC and the wiring at the battery since there has already been an issue discovered there. The likelihood that something not related this just suddenly and by coincidence (like crank sensor) failed is about as good as winning the lottery.

Double check wiring from PDC and the small connector on the coil for power. And if there is a connector by distributor that the CKS is NOT plugged into, that has to be connected. Just verify that it is not just an extra connector for something that did not come on the truck.
Thanks gdstock. That is what we were thinking too. On Monday we tested quite a few points and found that the coil would only get power when the ASD relay was bypassed. The fuel pump we were able to get power to also. It had some low readings from the PCM and somewhere on the side of the distributor. Everything seemed to be pointing at the PCM being bad.

We installed a new PCM today and tried to start it. The fuel pump kicked on right away but the battery was dead so we didn't get real far. Charged the battery up and it is definitely getting fuel now but no spark and we can't get any codes. It sounds like it is trying to start but just won't catch.

Tomorrow he is going to test the new coil and coil wire. Anything else seem likely to be the cause of the no spark? We're assuming the loose positive battery cable caused an overload. I think they tested the starter and that appeared to be okay also.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-09-2013, 10:14 AM
HeyYou's Avatar
HeyYou HeyYou is offline
Section Moderator
Dodge Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Vehicle: 1996 Dodge Ram 2500
Location: Adrian, MI
Posts: 34,312
Default

Try stepping on the gas while cranking. Having the battery fully charged would also help. Low voltages can cause some truly bizarre behavior.
__________________
1996 Ram 2500 5.9 EC/SB Gas, Auto, 4x4, Hughes plenum plate, Kegger mod, double roller timing set, rest is stock. For now.....
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-12-2013, 11:03 PM
JulieC JulieC is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 26
Default

Finally got back to it today. The battery is fully charged again and we are giving it gas when trying to start, but we can't get it to start. We did not have fuel before we changed out the PCM but now the fuel pump kicks right on so it's getting fuel.

Checked the ASD relay and verified that it is good. It gets power to the relay when you turn it on but it is not sending power back to the coil. The coil is new and tested good. Any suggestions on why that would be? We were thinking that possibly the alternator got shorted out when the positive battery cable came loose but not sure if that makes any sense.

This one has got us stumped. Gave up for the night when it got dark but going to try and find something again tomorrow after he gets done with work.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-13-2013, 09:12 AM
ram0325 ram0325 is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 33
Default

Go under the truck on the driver side of the transmission and reach up by wher your shift linkage goes into the trasns. There is a plug that will lift straight up just be careful not to break it. A flat head and plenty of crap in your eyes will get it unplugged. Try to start the truck with the trans unplugged. If it starts one of four solenoids on the valve body is bad ir wiring inside the trans has shorted. You will not be able to drive other than 1stthat and 2nd (loading and unloading) solenoids run bout $100
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-19-2013, 12:34 AM
JulieC JulieC is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 26
Default

Got back out there today finally and still trying to find the problem. The ASD relay is fine but the PCM is not sending a ground signal to the ASD. We can get power to the coil by putting a jumper in.

So far we have a new PCM installed and that got the fuel pump running, it has a new coil and new Crankshaft Position Sensor. The Camshaft Sensor tests good.

My question is what other signals does the PCM need to send the ground for the ASD? Or does it seem that the new PCM is bad?

Tried hooking up a scanner that we know works to the OBD II and we can't get it to connect. Also tried manually scanning by checking for flashes on the Check Engine Light but can't get that to come on either. And the tachometer does not move when cranking the engine. This one has really got us stumped. We are going to try again tomorrow but I'm thinking we may have to haul it to the Dodge dealer on Monday and see if they can find the problem. I hate to do that but we are running out of things to check for.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-19-2013, 09:44 AM
HeyYou's Avatar
HeyYou HeyYou is offline
Section Moderator
Dodge Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Vehicle: 1996 Dodge Ram 2500
Location: Adrian, MI
Posts: 34,312
Default

ASD relay should trip for a few seconds as soon as you turn on the key. (PCM controls ground for control circuit) Does it?

PCM will only enage ASD relay if it sees the engine turning. (aside from the few seconds where you first turn the key on.) Uses cam, OR crank sensor to see if engine is turning.

Does the fuel pump run while cranking?

When you first turn the key on, does the CEL come on?
__________________
1996 Ram 2500 5.9 EC/SB Gas, Auto, 4x4, Hughes plenum plate, Kegger mod, double roller timing set, rest is stock. For now.....
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-19-2013, 02:15 PM
JulieC JulieC is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 26
Default

I do not think the ASD relay comes on for a few seconds. If it does, it is not showing anything on an analog multimeter.

The fuel pump does come on. It didn't at first until we put in a new PCM. There is a smell of fuel while trying to start also.

The Check Engine Light does not come on when you first turn on the key. It used to come on before all this happened but has not been on since.
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 02:15 PM
 
 
 
Reply




Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump

Join DodgeForum
Advertising

Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory
Our Sponsors
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:22 PM.

Internet Brands, Inc.


Contact Details & Emails