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1994 Dodge Ram 1500: new dash, wont start

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  #11  
Old 09-19-2014, 05:54 PM
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I literally just took the dash out again, and then it started raining. I will try that at next opportunity, I feel like that might do something.
 
  #12  
Old 09-20-2014, 01:08 AM
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Removed security system. It only had 4 connections to electrical system. Reinstalled dash. Truck started just fine. I cannot describe how relieved I was when I heard it not only crank but run. Everything works now. So happy. So relieved. Now to take the old dash out again, swap the harnesses and reinstall the new one, with the old harness so I can be sure everything should work as it is. Only problems that could arise would be between now and the time I actually install it again so I should be good.

Additionally, I believe there was a ground wire that connected (somehow) to that security system and when I tested it for voltage, it was running 12V+. So long useless little black box.
 
  #13  
Old 09-20-2014, 05:06 PM
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Cool.

We want pics of the finished product.
 
  #14  
Old 09-21-2014, 12:08 AM
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It is night now, Ill take some pics in the morning. So I thought the problem was gone, I was wrong.

I started it up a few times since I removed the security system, the most recent time I started it up was without being fully assembled, ie kick panel not in, faceplate not on, not fully bolted down and so forth.

It started fine with the old dash in (this poor little metal frame with literally no plastic on it) after I had removed the security system and put the old dash back in. Then I took the old dash back out and [carefully] removed the wiring harness. Then I took the harness out of the new dashboard. Next I installed the harness that came from my own truck in the new dash. Next I took the new dash and installed it in the truck. I held the dash in place and bolted the steering column down, securing the dash and the steering column in place. Then I connected all of the connectors (except for the brake switch connector). Then I started it up. It started just fine, from what I saw. Nothing at all that would make me think there was anything wrong with it then. Next I installed the bar that goes along the bottom of the kick panel as well as the faceplate and the glove compartment (for what that matters). After I had installed everything, I tried to start it and it turned a little bit and stopped. I tried again. Nothing. It seemed like the battery was just low, from what the dial showed. I had my neighbor jump it. Still nothing. I checked the fuses and I'll be damned if I didnt burn that same blasted fuse again.

As I said, it is night now, but my neighbor suggested I should trace that wire, again. Which I will do. In the morning. I have a couple suspicions of which wire is messing this up, or where the fault is. I kinda hope I am right, because then, I dont have to trace the entire thing. Again. But then, I also kinda hope I am wrong, because if I am right, then I have to take out the dashboard. Again.

My primary suspicion is this one relay that is connected to not only the wire that feeds from the PDC, specifically the fuse that burnt out 4 times now, but to a fuse and a ground. I have no idea how this would make sense though, as the problem only resurfaced after I reinstalled the kick plate. Meh. At this point, there is probably a wire somewhere that is just sitting there laughing at me while it hides in a thick bundle of wires.

Until Morning then!
 
  #15  
Old 09-21-2014, 02:42 AM
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Got bored. Checked the connector to the ignition switch. (by that, I mean I took the connector out of the ignition switch and tested the connector itself, not the switch) I took my handy little multimeter and started checking for continuity to the ground (or metal frame of the dashboard, in this case) and I actually found that ALL of the wires except for the pink/black wire and the red (presumably live) wire, are grounded. I do not know what the implications of this are but I will investigate the wiring diagrams, because I would bet they are not all supposed to be grounded like that. Sound weird to anyone else?

Is there any possibility of someone who has a similar truck testing the same connector for grounded connections? I just clipped one lead to the metal frame of the dash and checked all of the pins in the connector, marking down whether they had continuity to ground. If I knew what the normal was, I could likely pinpoint the problem much quicker (or at all).

Sigh. There is a relay that is wired in the wiring harness. (IIRC) It is connected to the interior fuse box, the BK/PK wire, the BK/OR wire and it has a ground. There is likely another connection somewhere but I cannot remember it right this moment. Because of the nature of this relay, I always thought it was a after-factory modification, however, there is a relay in the schematics that matches it so I was very hesitant to remove it. I did, however, try to pull the relay out of the socket it was wired into but the socket was literally crumbling in my hand. I would bet my beret that that connector was hanging freely before I reinstalled the kick panel and so no wires inside of it were touching at all and when I installed the kick panel, it was pushed so the wires inside must have touched. I still have the old wiring harness and there is a relay in a similar setup but it is not crumbling. I will replace the entire bit (hopefully) and pray that is what the problem was, this time.

Correction, there are 3 relays behind the kick panel. Two of them are a set and appear to operate the door locks and the other one is the one I was talking about. It appears to function properly though, it isnt cracked or crumbling. I mistook the one that was crumbling, it was actually one of the two that appear to operate the electric door locks. I will have to see if any of these are actually in the schematics and then see about removing them. The one that is crumbling could still be shorting something out.

EDIT: Alright, I removed the relays that connected to the door locks. I also checked the last relay and found that it connects to PK/BK, OR/BK (both from the ignition switch), the blower motor and a ground. And it is set up so that if BK/OR has current to ground, PK/BK is connected to the blower motor green lead. Checking now, I dont think there is such a relay in the diagrams. I will double check but it does look very out of place. It looks especially strange because BK/OR goes to a splice and then to a fuse (30A) in the fuse box then it goes to the blower motor via a green wire. No relay I see. Looking at it now, I cannot really understand how it would start normally and have the blower motor function, which I know it did. I dont really want to remove it either, because I would bet it had a purpose being where it was.

Another Edit: I feel it is relevant to mention that after I had installed the dash the most recent time with the old wiring harness installed, the truck started at least once. However. I installed the kickpanel (and the rest of the trim and the glove box) and tried to start it, it tried to start then just stopped doing anything. At that point I thought it needed a jump because the cabin lights were remarkably dim and it sounded like the engine tried to start up but couldnt, whether it was because of insufficient electricity or the fuse, I cannot say for sure, but I do know that I tried to start when jumping it and it wouldnt start, then I checked the fuse and found it was blown. Again.

What I mean is: is it possible that the fuse somehow blew because there wasnt enough juice in the battery? Or vice versa? Because the battery does show a remarkably weak charge now, below the white mark in the dial. I would bet if I did try to put a fuse in and start it, it would not have enough charge to even crank, disregarding whether the fuse blows or not.
 

Last edited by corrodedchrome; 09-21-2014 at 09:35 PM.
  #16  
Old 09-22-2014, 11:02 PM
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What in the actual hell is with this truck. I might need an exorcist or something.

There is a wire that looks suspiciously after-market, see first photo below, and it connects (what I currently believe to be) pin 85 of the starter relay to ground via a 20A fuse in a small black connector. Now, I have a few problems with this connector.

1: I dont see it in the schematics. At all.
2: It goes to ground and is a red wire. Ground wires should be black, no?
3: It seems to bypass the Park/Neutral position switch of the transmission. (keep in mind this is an automatic) (this might suggest the park/neutral switch is faulty and the previous owner was too lazy/cheap to replace that switch so they bypassed it altogether)
4: It connects into the relay by way of a larger gauge wire partially threaded through a hole in the contact of one of the relays.

It looks very unprofessional, to say the least. I was thinking there was some possibility that the wire that was stripped and inserted into the hole might have touched some other contact than just the pin it was supposed to, possibly resulting in a short. Specifically, I think that wire, which is grounded, might have touched pin 30 due to proximity. If it did do that...
1: it would explain why the 40A fuse was blown
2: it would not explain why the 20A inline fuse on that wire did not blow
3: it would not explain why the problem seemed to go away
4: it would not explain why the problem returned when I installed the kick panel.

Absolutely weird.

Then we have the diagram that I believe should show where the problem is, see second image. It does show there is a relay. That is about it.
As I said, the wire in question is connected to pin 85 of the starter relay and to the frame of the truck (ground). It has an inline 20A fuse, which is intact, I might add. Now, if that wire did touch a live wire and provide a ground, I suppose it is possible, not necessarily likely, that the wire simply provided a grounded option for current. At this point, Fuse 2, the 40A fuse in the PDC that has blown 4 times now, would have likely blown. But the thing that has me worried about this is why did it only happen when I installed a new dashboard? Why did it not happen before now? Why did it not happen when I had the barebones frame of the old dash in but when I had the new dash (with its original wiring harness)? Why did installing the kick panel matter?

I am fairly convinced that there is a wire somewhere that is just red in the face laughing at me and how much I cannot see what is happening. Maybe my solder joints were faulty, despite the very solid connections I made and I covered with a solid piece of heat shrink tubing, specifically to prevent any possible shorts.

Next course of action, I suppose, is to install the dash and maybe try testing it in place to see if there is some sort of short that I cannot find with it sitting on the floor.


1994 Dodge Ram 1500: new dash, wont start-4inipww.png
 
  #17  
Old 09-23-2014, 08:54 AM
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Check that park/neutral switch to see if it's working or not. PO did some rigging you'll have to get back to original. Me and wiring don't get along and being colorblind only makes it worse.
 
  #18  
Old 09-23-2014, 09:01 AM
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Think I would start by pulling the relay, and verifying you have power at pin 30. Turn the key to start, verify power at pin 86. Pin 85 should show ground in park and neutral.
 
  #19  
Old 09-23-2014, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Arde
Check that park/neutral switch to see if it's working or not. PO did some rigging you'll have to get back to original. Me and wiring don't get along and being colorblind only makes it worse.
Originally Posted by HeyYou
Think I would start by pulling the relay, and verifying you have power at pin 30. Turn the key to start, verify power at pin 86. Pin 85 should show ground in park and neutral.
Roger roger, Will do.
 
  #20  
Old 09-24-2014, 01:34 AM
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Alright, so a friend of mine came by and insisted that it was the starter relay that was bad so I pulled it out and pulled out the relay for the horn (since my poor truck hasnt had a horn since I bought it) and popped it right in the spot for the starter relay, put my last fuse in the spot for the ignition relay and tried to start it. Believe it or not, it had very little charge so it didnt start up that time. My friend got out his jumper cables and hooked them up then I tried again and it started right up. I let it run for a couple minutes then he took his cables off. I let it run for a minute or two more and tried to start it again. Nothing. Not even a nibble. Checked the fuses and guess which fuse was blown? A certain 40A fuse in the slot for the Ignition fuse in the PDC. Same one that has blown out the other 4 times, you know...
But I did find it a tiny bit interesting that the truck could START, it just cant do it again without burning another 6 bucks. But it is alright to some extent. I have more fuses on the way. At this point I am fairly sure that as long as the battery has a charge or I have someone jumping the truck, I can pop in a new fuse and get it to start. All that means is I cannot turn it off when I get where I am going unless I have more fuses to pop in.

Come to think of it, I think (emphasis on think) that I got the truck started and then I checked the fuses and I think that the starter fuse was still intact at that point. I cannot say whether the fuse was blown somehow when the truck was turned off or when I tried to start it back up. Likely the latter. Meh.
 


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