98 ram, 4x4, 5.9l- something strange sounding in rear!
#31
10-20-2016, 11:08 PM
#32
10-21-2016, 11:08 AM
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I tried to reply to everything with multi-quote, but it was just too much to manage, so I'll try to reply to each point one by one:
1. Fenders
The first thing I would do is pin back the inner fenders (i.e. splash guard) with some zip ties or something and then take it for a spin. This is the most likely source of your noise and you might find the truck behaves as you would expect. Yes, that little bit of plastic can have a big effect, primarily because when the tread of the truck catches it right it compresses it from a "soft" plastic into a "rigid" plastic. I've got a 1 ton diesel with a plow and counterweight and it still can cause the whole truck to shake and bind (grossing 10-11k or so, or about twice the weight of your truck). Tread pattern makes a big difference, the lugs on mud tires catch much, much more aggressively then the smoother tread of all terrains. Highway treads probably don't grab at all, only rub.
2. U-Joint
I would not jump on replacing the u-joint or the steering until you've tried the simple (and practically free) fix. If you still have the shudder or binding the next thing I would replace is the u-joint, unless you still have noticeable rub marks from the tire.
3. Tires/Wheels
If the tires still rub after tying back the inner fender, or if the inner fender can't be tied back, I would replace the tires and wheels. The 33in size of your tires isn't a problem, even with stock suspension, it's the 12.5in section width and that isn't going to be fixed with a leveling kit. You can replace the tires only, but you'll need to know your rim size. If I was you, I would check out Craigslist for tire or tire/rim deals. You can find a full set of rims with half tread or more mud tires for $500 if you're patient enough. On my old black 2500 I got two pair of mud tires for $150 each and had them swapped on by a local shop who only charged me like $8 for mounting and balancing. You can find a set of steel rims for $100 most of the time.
4. Steering
Here are some threads on the steering upgrade:
Here at Dodge Forum
At Cummins Forum
At Diesel Bombers
There are lots of them, just google 2nd Gen Dodge Ram Steering Upgrade.
With that said, I wouldn't jump right on this as it's just as likely that your steering is livable. I do recall now that you might be able to move by hand the first tie rod from the pitman arm out of the steering box to the wheel because it has ball joints on both ends. The real question though is: Does the steering feel sloppy to you? If not, I wouldn't bother. I never did the steering upgrade on my old truck because it was always the track bar that failed, I replaced it 3 times (very bumpy road).
In regards to the steering stabilizer. The T vs Y I was describing is the geometry of the tie rods and has nothing to do with the stabilizer. Your stabilizer is the least of your concerns and should only be addressed if you get major tugging at the wheel when going over rough terrain (potholes, etc.) It's job is to absorb the impact of hitting something hard on one wheel which suddenly pulls you to one side or another.
In the stock Y-style suspension one tie rod comes from the pitman arm (the little lever that comes out of the steering box) directly to your passenger steering knuckle. Another tie rod connects to that rod 3/4 of the way down and connects to the driver steering knuckle. The problem with this is that as the suspension compresses (the truck gets lower) the length of the rods spreads the front of the tires outward (in alignment terms they toe out). When the suspension extends (the truck gets taller, like when a wheel dips into a pothole) the length of the rods pulls the front of the tires in (toe in).
In the HD T-style suspension the tie rod comes from the pitman arm to the passenger steering knuckle as before, but the second tie rod connects the passenger steering knuckle directly to the driver's steering knuckle. The tires on each side then remain parallel (0 toe) no matter if the suspension is compressed, extended, or in any other position.
5. Suspension
There is no need to raise the truck, even with a leveling kit, so long as your tires size is 33in or under. For 35in tires you need to at least use the leveling kit to allow the front tires not to rub. The stock tire size is 265/75R16, which is essentially a 31in. The important factor is the width of the tire, for the stock tire is 10.7in. You can run on a stock truck 285/75R16s which are 11.3in wide without rubbing, but that is the limit without wheel spacers or rims with negative offset (less backspacing) to put the centerline of the tire further away from the suspension components (further out from the truck).
Air bags are only for handling additional weight. You'll hit the towing limits of the transmission well before you need air bags on a 1500. For example I'm considering adding them so I can tow a 19k lb gooseneck trailer (right at the CDL limit). That'll mean an additional 5k lb of weight on the rear axle, getting close to axle weight limit and more or less exceeding the weight limits for the suspension). Adding air bags will distribute the load on the suspension and allow the truck to maintain proper ride height and cushioning when at that limit.
Lifting a vehicle you're going to tow with is never recommended, the taller you are the higher the attachment point of your trailer which can make attaching a pain and can cause trailers with more than one axle to wear and behave unexpectedly. It also raises your center of gravity which is definitely not something you want when a trailer pushes you around in say... a rotary.
If you're towing, I'd keep it to a leveling kit and 285s at the most. That's still like 3in of extra height.
6. Parts
If you're on a budget, try junkyards, Craigslist, and eBay. There are plenty of HD setups in junkyards by now. If you do buy new, I recommend Auto Parts Warehouse over RockAuto. Prices are comparable, sales are often better, and shipping is often free.
I've never seen the need for Mopar/Factory parts. Unlike a manufacturer like Toyota the aftermarket brands like Moog are just as good.
Hopefully I got it all!
1. Fenders
The first thing I would do is pin back the inner fenders (i.e. splash guard) with some zip ties or something and then take it for a spin. This is the most likely source of your noise and you might find the truck behaves as you would expect. Yes, that little bit of plastic can have a big effect, primarily because when the tread of the truck catches it right it compresses it from a "soft" plastic into a "rigid" plastic. I've got a 1 ton diesel with a plow and counterweight and it still can cause the whole truck to shake and bind (grossing 10-11k or so, or about twice the weight of your truck). Tread pattern makes a big difference, the lugs on mud tires catch much, much more aggressively then the smoother tread of all terrains. Highway treads probably don't grab at all, only rub.
2. U-Joint
I would not jump on replacing the u-joint or the steering until you've tried the simple (and practically free) fix. If you still have the shudder or binding the next thing I would replace is the u-joint, unless you still have noticeable rub marks from the tire.
3. Tires/Wheels
If the tires still rub after tying back the inner fender, or if the inner fender can't be tied back, I would replace the tires and wheels. The 33in size of your tires isn't a problem, even with stock suspension, it's the 12.5in section width and that isn't going to be fixed with a leveling kit. You can replace the tires only, but you'll need to know your rim size. If I was you, I would check out Craigslist for tire or tire/rim deals. You can find a full set of rims with half tread or more mud tires for $500 if you're patient enough. On my old black 2500 I got two pair of mud tires for $150 each and had them swapped on by a local shop who only charged me like $8 for mounting and balancing. You can find a set of steel rims for $100 most of the time.
4. Steering
Here are some threads on the steering upgrade:
Here at Dodge Forum
At Cummins Forum
At Diesel Bombers
There are lots of them, just google 2nd Gen Dodge Ram Steering Upgrade.
With that said, I wouldn't jump right on this as it's just as likely that your steering is livable. I do recall now that you might be able to move by hand the first tie rod from the pitman arm out of the steering box to the wheel because it has ball joints on both ends. The real question though is: Does the steering feel sloppy to you? If not, I wouldn't bother. I never did the steering upgrade on my old truck because it was always the track bar that failed, I replaced it 3 times (very bumpy road).
In regards to the steering stabilizer. The T vs Y I was describing is the geometry of the tie rods and has nothing to do with the stabilizer. Your stabilizer is the least of your concerns and should only be addressed if you get major tugging at the wheel when going over rough terrain (potholes, etc.) It's job is to absorb the impact of hitting something hard on one wheel which suddenly pulls you to one side or another.
In the stock Y-style suspension one tie rod comes from the pitman arm (the little lever that comes out of the steering box) directly to your passenger steering knuckle. Another tie rod connects to that rod 3/4 of the way down and connects to the driver steering knuckle. The problem with this is that as the suspension compresses (the truck gets lower) the length of the rods spreads the front of the tires outward (in alignment terms they toe out). When the suspension extends (the truck gets taller, like when a wheel dips into a pothole) the length of the rods pulls the front of the tires in (toe in).
In the HD T-style suspension the tie rod comes from the pitman arm to the passenger steering knuckle as before, but the second tie rod connects the passenger steering knuckle directly to the driver's steering knuckle. The tires on each side then remain parallel (0 toe) no matter if the suspension is compressed, extended, or in any other position.
5. Suspension
There is no need to raise the truck, even with a leveling kit, so long as your tires size is 33in or under. For 35in tires you need to at least use the leveling kit to allow the front tires not to rub. The stock tire size is 265/75R16, which is essentially a 31in. The important factor is the width of the tire, for the stock tire is 10.7in. You can run on a stock truck 285/75R16s which are 11.3in wide without rubbing, but that is the limit without wheel spacers or rims with negative offset (less backspacing) to put the centerline of the tire further away from the suspension components (further out from the truck).
Air bags are only for handling additional weight. You'll hit the towing limits of the transmission well before you need air bags on a 1500. For example I'm considering adding them so I can tow a 19k lb gooseneck trailer (right at the CDL limit). That'll mean an additional 5k lb of weight on the rear axle, getting close to axle weight limit and more or less exceeding the weight limits for the suspension). Adding air bags will distribute the load on the suspension and allow the truck to maintain proper ride height and cushioning when at that limit.
Lifting a vehicle you're going to tow with is never recommended, the taller you are the higher the attachment point of your trailer which can make attaching a pain and can cause trailers with more than one axle to wear and behave unexpectedly. It also raises your center of gravity which is definitely not something you want when a trailer pushes you around in say... a rotary.
If you're towing, I'd keep it to a leveling kit and 285s at the most. That's still like 3in of extra height.
6. Parts
If you're on a budget, try junkyards, Craigslist, and eBay. There are plenty of HD setups in junkyards by now. If you do buy new, I recommend Auto Parts Warehouse over RockAuto. Prices are comparable, sales are often better, and shipping is often free.
I've never seen the need for Mopar/Factory parts. Unlike a manufacturer like Toyota the aftermarket brands like Moog are just as good.
Hopefully I got it all!
#33
10-23-2016, 10:35 PM
Well, LordLuciendar has set me up with a wealth of invaluable info. For me anyway. That "write up" is freakin priceless! HeyYou, frankie b jr, MrGman, AtomicDog, dbbd1, etc, etc, y'all are like a well oiled 2017 Dodge Ram Rebel TRX!
CAR TV
Thanks!
CAR TV
Thanks!
#34
10-23-2016, 11:29 PM
Oh yea, that u-joint in the pic I sent, the one that frankie b jr drew a circle on, well that's actually the one moves! It ever so slightly jiggles when I grab it and try to move it back n forth. There is play, although its barley any, but its there! The other side don't budge even a micromillimeter! But the one he circled, it does "wiggle", barely, but wiggles, jiggles, however you'd describe it. Does that tiny almost nothing movement affect things at all?
When I looked in it, as I was making it "jiggle", theres 4 small metal caps. They're round! Those "caps" seem to be a seal or something. Well, 1 of those 4 isnt on it's end of whatever that is that it's supposed to be sealed onto, nope, not on there, it's off of his. The other 3 caps are on theirs, and tight. But that 4th one is def not!(if y'all know what I even mean) So, does that mean I have to replace that u-joint, and If so, do you have to do both sides? With Moogs? Or just the 1 frankie b jr circled? Like when you do brake pads?
And I already ordered 2 suspension parts before I read the priceless post of info LordLuciendar and frankie b jr sent! I also freakin ordered both of them from RockAuto instead of APW! So, crap. That was stupid!
Both will be here tomorrow. That "sideways" shock part, the steering Damper I think, thats 1 of the parts. A co called "Rancho".
And I think I ordered the other one for no reason as when I looked at truck again today, that particular piece seems ok. I thought I was ordering the one that curves back, or 90's back so to speak, at each end of this bar thing. But I did not order that one! I got that bar part that's right next to it called the "Track Bar"! So, i screwed up already! Anyway, back to Rock it's going!
But before I send it back, i'll raise that plastic splash out of the way of the tire to see if it DOES correct the bump bump bump thing. He's right, the steering is actually fine, even though it looks real bad at a couple of the suspension or steering parts under there!
Also I was wrong, the ball joints are fine too, I think. Its those rubber boots at the the tie rods ends that are slit open and have no grease/lube in em. Not the ball joints!
Because I didn't see the info frankie b jr and LordLuciendar had sent before I ordered those 1st couple of things, I messed it up! Already!
Got the front pads off, they're due for new ones as well! Now I'm wondering what brake pads I should get for these trucks? Hate to order the wrong pads too, of all things!
I did want y'all to see the couple other pics of these couple other parts of the suspension. Love to see what ya think bout those! Theyre not to hot looking to me. Slits in the boots, no lube/grease in em. I think y'all would want those replaced even though its still steering good. Thanks-
When I looked in it, as I was making it "jiggle", theres 4 small metal caps. They're round! Those "caps" seem to be a seal or something. Well, 1 of those 4 isnt on it's end of whatever that is that it's supposed to be sealed onto, nope, not on there, it's off of his. The other 3 caps are on theirs, and tight. But that 4th one is def not!(if y'all know what I even mean) So, does that mean I have to replace that u-joint, and If so, do you have to do both sides? With Moogs? Or just the 1 frankie b jr circled? Like when you do brake pads?
And I already ordered 2 suspension parts before I read the priceless post of info LordLuciendar and frankie b jr sent! I also freakin ordered both of them from RockAuto instead of APW! So, crap. That was stupid!
Both will be here tomorrow. That "sideways" shock part, the steering Damper I think, thats 1 of the parts. A co called "Rancho".
And I think I ordered the other one for no reason as when I looked at truck again today, that particular piece seems ok. I thought I was ordering the one that curves back, or 90's back so to speak, at each end of this bar thing. But I did not order that one! I got that bar part that's right next to it called the "Track Bar"! So, i screwed up already! Anyway, back to Rock it's going!
But before I send it back, i'll raise that plastic splash out of the way of the tire to see if it DOES correct the bump bump bump thing. He's right, the steering is actually fine, even though it looks real bad at a couple of the suspension or steering parts under there!
Also I was wrong, the ball joints are fine too, I think. Its those rubber boots at the the tie rods ends that are slit open and have no grease/lube in em. Not the ball joints!
Because I didn't see the info frankie b jr and LordLuciendar had sent before I ordered those 1st couple of things, I messed it up! Already!
Got the front pads off, they're due for new ones as well! Now I'm wondering what brake pads I should get for these trucks? Hate to order the wrong pads too, of all things!
I did want y'all to see the couple other pics of these couple other parts of the suspension. Love to see what ya think bout those! Theyre not to hot looking to me. Slits in the boots, no lube/grease in em. I think y'all would want those replaced even though its still steering good. Thanks-
Last edited by marcpilot1; 10-23-2016 at 11:33 PM.
#35
10-24-2016, 09:24 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: White Mountains, NH
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When I looked in it, as I was making it "jiggle", theres 4 small metal caps. They're round! Those "caps" seem to be a seal or something. Well, 1 of those 4 isnt on it's end of whatever that is that it's supposed to be sealed onto, nope, not on there, it's off of his. So, does that mean I have to replace that u-joint, and If so, do you have to do both sides? With Moogs? Or just the 1 frankie b jr circled? Like when you do brake pads?
The one brand that stands out for shocks is Bilstein. People swear their ride is unparalleled and they last much longer than the other brands. There is a brand premium though, so they will be the most expensive shocks you find.
The track bar is usually the first thing to go in my experience, you're lucky yours is in good shape.
You mentioned that this truck isn't an everyday vehicle. Something to consider is that rotors with venting, slots, or crossdrilling can provide great benefits to brake cooling (and thus better braking under heavy loads or prolonged braking), they also expose greater surface area to rust. If the truck sits for a while and you don't expect large loads or to be going up and down a significant grade (read: mountains), shoot for solid rotors. If you are expecting large loads or mountains, shoot for vented rotors only. Avoid crossdrilling and slots wherever possible.
#36
10-24-2016, 10:42 AM
Right, it'll prob never go in any mud. I dont really know anywhere or know anyone that does off roading.(we prob dont know what were missing) But since it never really did, the bottom isnt rusty anywhere, I thought I'd be better to just get it real nice.
Man, I got ex direction now. Know where to start. Sort of what to buy to finally get started "right". For y'all to read such long posts with so many questions, then take even more time to send back the best information you can is a huge advantage for me to have a chance to get it right.
I know, I owe y'all! Theres before pics and I'll take some more as I install stuff as well. At least you'll know you didn't waste a your time! I guess if theres anything else or anything I can do to contribute something back, just lmk. Not sure I can tell y'all anything! But I got this neeeed to wanna give back!
Man, I got ex direction now. Know where to start. Sort of what to buy to finally get started "right". For y'all to read such long posts with so many questions, then take even more time to send back the best information you can is a huge advantage for me to have a chance to get it right.
I know, I owe y'all! Theres before pics and I'll take some more as I install stuff as well. At least you'll know you didn't waste a your time! I guess if theres anything else or anything I can do to contribute something back, just lmk. Not sure I can tell y'all anything! But I got this neeeed to wanna give back!
#37
10-24-2016, 07:09 PM
Post as many as you can. 
#38
11-13-2016, 01:00 PM
