I'd def find another garage if they talked to me like that. Sounds like a bunch of a-holes.

 

heres a stupid question, are you sure the tick isn't an exhaust manifold leak, or could be a broken lifter from over heating, pop the valve cover and see if an lifters are dislodged or broken, it may be a simple fix. and for anyone who calls you names, I drove my 05 4.7 all the way home, 30 miles or more with a blown water pump, the bearing went and fluid went all over the engine compartment and gauge rose and rose, came home replaced pump, fired it up and drove away, no motor issues, so I am thinking its and easy fix

 

thanks ^^
is your Dakota a 4.7v8?
I did the water pump switch properly and noticed the motor was shaking and makin a knocking noise after, which speeds up with throttle.. would think it would be manifold with that outcome - I did not check the manifold yet, I saw the manifold shield has a broken bolt on the bottom right, but I did not inspect too much, and I don't think that would effect the engine power would it?

not to sound stupid, but where is the valve cover so I can inspect the lifters?damaged lifters wouldn't decrease power of the motor would it?
I have slowly been teaching my self about the mechanics of automobiles from doing self repairs.

** i have a noob question, if Im replacing the engine, I am getting new *used* everything almost? is manifold separate ? what components are in the motor I know transmission is not...stupid question I know, so headgaskets all that are part of the engine..lifters are within? are they replaceable or have to break down the engine?

and the garage I went too had been fine for me to drop off parts I bought my self I couldn't install myself and just pay them labor to install like ball joints an tie rod ends, kind of a tough looking crowd, I wont be using them for a swap.
hopefully I can find an easy fix..but it appears it might be a cylinder that is infact damage. so there is no repair for a blown cylinder..
I will have more time tomorrow to distinguish/narrow down if I have found the culprit.\

 

The valve covers are the long black composite plastic things on either side of the engine. Kind of wedge shaped. They cover the heads and house the cams and lifters.

Replacement engines come it basically 3 forms; short block, long block, and complete.

Short block is typically just the block with a rotation assembly installed. (Crankshaft, pistons and connecting rods)


Long block has a lot more, for a 4.7 it should include what the short block includes, plus heads, usually cams, valves and valve springs.

Complete is usually your used motors, or crate motors. They come with everything else; timing cover/chains, intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, water pump. Pretty much everything, a lit of which someone in your situation may not need all of, but it never hurts to have spares until everything settles, then you can sell off the good parts piece by piece

Damaged lifters could definitely decrease power, the lifter is there to be pushed by the cam as it rotates, it then is attached to a pivoting arm called a rocker, which presses down on the valve which is spring loaded. If a lifter is collapsed, it won't open a valve to either let fuel in or exhaust out.

Now, about your exhaust manifolds, I think you are showing too many symptoms for that to be the problem. They can tick when they are leaking, but it often goes away once the exhaust is warm, it can cause wacky 02 readings and make vehicles run like crap, but not shake and convulse like yours was doing.

 

You mentioned in one post that your oil had gone milky, if this is the case, you have water mixing with your oil. This is most likely the result of a failed head gasket (could be from a slightly warped head). If this is the only damage that your engine (not motor) received from the overheat, it won't be long before you sustain greater damage from running it on bad oil. If you warped a head, I'd recommend getting both removed and reworked (use an engine rebuild shop vs. a garage) - this will include a test on the heads to insure there are no cracks, mill them flat, and seat all the valves (they'll replace any one that's warped or burned). If you don't care about this engine or you have no choice, you can drive it till it finally quits & then get a salvaged engine for a swap.

Regular oil will turn milky, synthetic doesn't always do this, but it does look dirty and can smell differently - if you look close at the oil/water mix, you can see the small particles of water in the oil.

If you found the cylinder that causes the misfire by disconnecting the coil, this could be where the head gasket is shot OR you could have a bad coil (coincidence?). You could try swapping a couple of the coils and see if the problem moves or remains with the original cylinder & this will tell you what you're dealing with. If the engine runs better with that coil disconnected, I'd say that cylinder is most likely firing, but losing pressure quickly through a bad head gasket - this would give you that difference in sound and feel.

 

I forgot you were on The Rock. My Father-in-law probably had one of the rental possibilities last week - he was fly fishing up around Deer Lake.

I wouldn't drive it. If it is just the head and head gasket, it can be fixed fairly cheaply - either with a rebuilt head or a repaired head.

Don't do anything else until you download the service manual at the top of the forum! This is really essential if you want to try to do anything yourself.

It has drawings and fairly good instructions and it is FREE! This is what the techs use to do jobs they don't do every day - it tells you the sequence of removals, so you don't screw something up by trying to pry off something that slips off when the thing in the way is removed first, it tells you the torque specs for re-assembly, tells you how to diagnose the problem.

With your limited knowledge of mechanicals, it will really help you to learn more about stuff!

I have been working on tractors, motorcycles, cars and trucks for probably 40 years alongside my father who was a displaced farm boy, and I still use the manual to get it right!

You may have a hard time finding a rebuilder close to you, I'm showing some in St John's, Conception Bay, Corner Brook, and Grand Bank areas.

This would be cheaper, easier and faster than swapping an engine - using the service manual, pull the head with the defective cylinder, take it to the rebuilders and have them repair it. Get a new head gasket, probably intake manifold gaskets (check the service manual), pick up the repaired head and, using the service manual (see a trend?) put it all back together. Oh, and drain the oil and coolant (there is now cross-contamination) and refill.

You would need a socket set and a torque wrench, putty knife (for cleaing gasket surfaces on the block) and a few cleaning/lubricating/thread-lock chemicals.

Unless you know for sure that the entire engine is pooched, don't drive it! You know have an engine that needs some work, you drive it, it will soon be an anchor to tie the dory to.

 

+1

If you do it yourself, the most you're going to lose is time, if it turns out to be toast. If you have a shop check the heads, you'll be out money and time.

You should be able to see damage once you get the heads off, if its toast. That way you can skip refurbishing the heads and grab a motor. But if it looks good, just dirty, then you may be in luck.

By the way, you can run the engine with the valve covers off as long as everything is out of he way.. Then you can get a visual of the lifters and cam all working together, see if anything is funky.

 

Definitly sounding more and more like a manifold issue allthough
i inspected them and they look okay, i also inspected the headgasket and it does not look burned or damaged.
I took some pictures, one of me trying to identify the valve cover,, about 10 bolts 5 on each side. a couple of them long with zip snaps ties on the longer bolts.
i got 9 off the one of the right side- but i couldnt get the last one in the far back left..
and it didint seem to be loosening up at all either

second picture is of the manifold shield on the rigght side, seems as if one of the bolts came right off the exhaust manifold it self. . i removeed the shield...
anyhow ; busy at the moment , i will reply to you guys after, thanks alot for all the information and i will keep you updated with what I do.

 

Yea that's the valve covers, and looks like a tacked on bolt for the heatshield. If the bolts holding the exhaust manifold to the block are also broken, that is a problem. But it won't be responsible for what you described your engine doing. The noise, maybe.. but not the action. An exhaust leak before the o2 sensors can cause it to run rough, but not as bad as you described. Keep trying to get those covers off, once you do, look for anything that is obviously broken or out of place, take good pics of it. if it just looks dirty with nothing loose or falling off, give it a start and watch them move, look for anything that might not be moving like the rest of them. If you do that, make sure nothing is in danger of falling onto the moving parts.

You will need to take the heads off if the head gasket is bad, I believe it is. But if we see something else before that, then you will know if you need other parts too.

I also suggest that you get the air filter box, tube, and air hat out of the way. It will make things easier. Label and mark anything, especially nuts and bolts, as you remove them. Take pics for yourself as you go so you can refer back to them if you're not sure where something goes.

If you remove the head bolts, it's a good idea to buy a new set before assembly, they aren't "torque to yield" but they can be damaged over time from many heat and cool cycles.

If you want to dig deeper, download the service manual and find a place to print it out, or keep it close on a laptop or phone so you can refer to it often. It's 5000 pages lol, so maybe just print the pages you need.

Top end work on an overhead cam engine can be pretty technical, I think you have to take the timing chain and cams, which means resetting the timing during reassembly. Pushrod engines are much easier.

Don't get too far into it if you're not sure if you can get back out. Although, that's some of the best ways to learn is to get so stuck that you think you're going to crack and call a tow truck again, after a night or two of contemplation you regain your composure and it starts to click, it's a good feeling. That's how I learned, and I still have a lot to learn.

 

As FrenicX mentioned, a manifold leak won't stop a cylinder from firing. Inspecting a head gasket from the outside won't show you any internal defects that would cause a lot of cylinder pressure loss or the oil to mix with the coolant - you need to lift the head for that. You can perform a compression test - this should show you if that cylinder is loosing a lot of pressure and can't sustain combustion. I would do a compression test on all the cylinders, the compression tester is available at Canadian Tire or at Partsource if you have that in NF - Partsource has a tool loan program that you might be able to use.