4x4 Vibration
#12
06-02-2009, 03:21 PM
I've heard they went to a smaller, weaker CV when they went from the torsion bar fronts to the coil overs in '06 for clearance issues. I've never been able to verify it, but have read it more than once.
Might be a source of the problem, you don't usually hear of front end vibration issues from the '02-'05 crowd...
Might be a source of the problem, you don't usually hear of front end vibration issues from the '02-'05 crowd...
#13
06-02-2009, 03:31 PM
I've heard they went to a smaller, weaker CV when they went from the torsion bar fronts to the coil overs in '06 for clearance issues. I've never been able to verify it, but have read it more than once.
Might be a source of the problem, you don't usually hear of front end vibration issues from the '02-'05 crowd...
Might be a source of the problem, you don't usually hear of front end vibration issues from the '02-'05 crowd...
Yup.... I also heard that they changed suppliers to some cheesy chinese crap. I was really quite PO'd at first... I'm over it now and have the backup plan with KORE.
It's a bit disheartening to think I need to spend $625 for parts and prbly $500 in labor to fix a now 9 month old truck... but hey, what can ya do... I might just buck up the extra cash and have it lifted while I'm at it...
Last edited by txj; 06-02-2009 at 03:34 PM.
#14
06-02-2009, 03:38 PM
Iowahemi, don't be surprised when the dealer tells you this as well, it seems to be the Chrysler line for the issue... since they cannot seem to solve the problem:
"The truck is for off road use only"... LOL
here my history... if you feel like taking the time to read it...
Problem – shudder in 4x4 hi mode operation on any surface
Summary of activity:
11/21/08 – Problem with shudder in 4x4 mode
11/21/08 – Taken Towne Dodge for diagnosis – replace front drive shaft
11/23/08 – Tested and problem still exists
11/23/08 – Dropped back off at Towne Dodge after hours drop off
11/24/08 – Towne Dodge could not find the source of the problem
11/25/08 – Towne Dodge to attempt additional diagnosis – “clocked” the front drive shaft
11/25/08 – Problem persists, although to a lesser extent - dealer could not fix the problem
11/25/08 – Emailed Chrysler with the problem
11/26/08 – Called Chrysler customer service line to make a complaint about the problem
11/29/08 – 4x4 shudder still exists & developing shimmy in 2wd at highway speed
12/01/08 – Called Towne Dodge to get the truck back in
12/03/08 – Towne Dodge repaired the 2wd shimmy, 4x4 shudder still exists as does the 2wd shimmy
12/05/08 – Called Chrysler customer service line to follow-up on my complaint and requested
- Requested arbitration paperwork
12/05/08 – Called Towne Dodge to schedule a 4th appointment to resolve the issue
- Dropping the truck off Tuesday, December 9th
- Towne will be looking at the truck Wednesday, December 10th
12/08/09 – Ashlay from Chrysler customer service called
12/09/08 – dropped off at Towne Dodge for review of the 4x4 shudder and 2wd shimmy
12/10/08 – Both problems still exist
Detailed events:
On November 21st 2008 we got a few inches of snow. I put my truck into 4x4 hi mode and proceeded to pull out of my driveway. Immediately I could feel a shimmy in the truck. As I accelerated I could feel the shimmy develop into a shudder throughout the truck but concentrated below the cab. I took the truck out of 4x4 hi mode and finished my drive to work.
Once at work I called the Towne Dodge service department and spoke with Kevin Jordan. He was able to get me in at 1pm the same day (November 21st). They diagnosed the problem as a “bent front drive shaft” between the transfer case and front differential. They replaced the drive shaft.
We had no snow so I was unable to test the result of their diagnosis and repair until Sunday, November 23rd. After testing on the 23rd I found that the Shudder was still there, just as bad as before the replacement drive shaft was installed. I took the truck to the dealer overnight drop off with a note regarding the problem still remaining.
I called the dealer Monday (November 24th) morning at 8am to make sure they not only got my note, but that they understood the issue was still the same. At 3pm Monday afternoon I called them to see what they had found. The result was that they could not find any issues that would cause the problem.
Unsatisfied with that response I told them that I was on my way and that I wanted the service manager to ride with me. When I arrived Russ told me that he had just taken the truck for a ride, and that there was “definitely a problem with the truck in 4x4 mode”, and that he wanted to keep it another day to try “clocking” or indexing the front drive shaft.
I told him that I would need a loaner vehicle by Tuesday afternoon if they were unable to find the problem and wanted to keep it longer, as I was leaving for Washington, DC to visit my daughter.
The dealer arranged for me to have a loaner through Enterprise car rental, and I received a call from an Enterprise rep that evening (Monday, November 24th).
Tuesday afternoon (November 25th) I called the dealer. The result was that, while they were able to slightly lessen the shudder by indexing the front drive shaft, the shudder was still there in 4x4 hi mode. Kevin informed me that they had called the Chrysler STAR line and was told by Greg that the shudder in 4x4 hi mode is normal for all Dodge 1500 trucks while in 4WD, and that 4x4 hi mode was only for OFF ROAD conditions. This is not an off road truck, nor did it come equipped with all terrain or off road tires, just street radials. Furthermore, it does not state in the owner’s manual that this is an off road truck or that 4x4 hi mode is for off road conditions only.
Still not happy with this response, I picked up my truck from the dealer Tuesday afternoon, November 25th.
That night I logged on to the Chrysler website and sent an email complaint to Chrysler Corp. outlining my experience with this truck.
In addition I called the Chrysler Customer Service line on Wednesday, November 26th at 10:05am before leaving on my trip. I outlined my issue with the Customer Service Representative who then assigned me a reference # (18120065) and then transferred me to the corporate representative. I then outlined my issue with yet another Chrysler representative. That person asked me, “What my expectations of Chrysler were?” I stated, several times, that I either wanted the truck fixed or I did not want the truck. And, that I had not purchased a 4wd vehicle for it not to work properly. One of my best friends owns the same vehicle and does not get a 4x4 hi mode shudder in his truck. And, that I have owned 3 Dodge Rams since the mid 1990’s and have never had any issues of this sort. Her response was that she was going to contact the dealer and have them take a more thorough look at the truck.
I received a return email on Wednesday, November 26th. The contents of the email are attached. Chrysler assigned me a reference # (18118144) as well as an email case # (2141336).
Wednesday, November 26th my wife and I left for Washington, DC and returned on Saturday, November 29th. While taking our trip my wife noticed there was a slight shimmy at highway speed while in 2wd operation.
Sunday, November 30th the shudder in 4x4 mode is still there, and the shimmy in 2wd operation seems to have gotten slightly worse.
Monday, December 1st – called Towne Dodge service department at 8:06am to schedule a 3rd attempt to diagnose the problem. Dropped the truck off Tuesday night for Wednesday, December 3rd appointment.
Wednesday, December 3rd – Dealer determined the 2wd vibration was a result of unbalanced wheels. They rebalanced all four wheels. The 2wd shimmy is still there at highway speeds. The service manager, Bob Voss, told me over the phone that they could not get the 4x4 shudder to go away. Bob claims again that according to STAR (Chrysler) the 4x4 shudder is a normal operating condition for all 1500 4x4s.
Bob went on to state that tires are not all the same and that tires spin at different rates. Bob claims that the new transfer case does not contain a viscous ring, as previous models did. That creates the transfer case to be fully locked when in 4x4 operation. And that the transfer cases with a viscous ring allow wheels on hard pack to spin at different rates without creating a shudder condition. However the new transfer cases without the viscous ring will not allow tires to spin at different rates without creating the shudder. Therefore the truck needs to be used only for off road very loose pack conditions so that the different rates of tire spin can be absorbed by the loose conditions.
Hard pack snow, ice etc will cause the condition. So, on my way home I stopped by my companies Derby plant. The plant is closed for a one week shutdown, therefore the parking lot was not plowed. There was about 3 inches of snow with ice below, loose conditions. I pulled in, stopped the truck, put the truck into 4x4 hi, and lightly accelerated. Immediately the truck began to shudder. The shudder problem persists in ANY condition with this truck.
Furthermore, Bob told me that he received the information from Chrysler regarding my phone call to the Chrysler customer service line. And that he then followed up by saying, since STAR told him this is within their “normal operating condition” that he closed my case with Chrysler.
If you look at the last service record from the dealer, dated December 3rd, they only noted the problem on page two, and never did anything to address the problem.
Friday, December 5th – Called Chrysler’s customer service line to make note that the original case was still not resolved, and that the 4x4 hi mode shudder condition continues to persist. I formally requested arbitration paperwork from Chrysler and was told that I would be contacted within one business day by that department.
Additionally, I contacted the service department at Towne Dodge and requested they look at the problem one more time to be sure they did not miss anything. The truck will be dropped off Tuesday evening (December 9th) for a Wednesday, December 10th appointment to once again attempt to diagnose the 4x4 hi mode shudder, as well as the 2wd vibration.
Monday, December 8th (around 5pm) I received a return call from Ashlay at the Chrysler customer service department in Detroit. He informed me that my truck does not qualify for the Chrysler arbitration as it was a federal mandate for only 5 states, NY not being one of them. Therefore the only thing he could do was to call the service manager at Towne Dodge to have it brought in again. However this time he was going to have the Chrysler “Regional STAR Team” come in to look at my truck, stating that “they can fix everything”. He attempted to contact the Towne Dodge service manager around 5:30pm, however they were closed. He called me back to let me know that he would be calling them tomorrow (Tuesday the 9th) in the AM and that I should call them after to schedule an appointment.
Tuesday, December 9th – dropped the truck off
Wednesday, December 10th – I received a call from Russ at the Towne Dodge service department. He stated that the truck, which has a shudder in 4x4 hi, is within the Chrysler specs. As far as the 2wd vibration is concerned, he stated that the last time they had the truck, on December 3rd, they load balanced the tires, and I was told that is be best the tires are going to get, as they are balanced within Chrysler specs. He went on to explain that the 2wd vibration is likely the result of the OEM Goodyear HP tires, and that when these tires wear out and I need to buy new tires the 2wd vibration should go away.
According to the invoice nothing at all was done on the 10th, and the only thing listed on the invoice was that the truck is within Chrysler specs.
After leaving the dealership I noticed that the 2wd vibration was still there, as is the 4x4 hi mode shudder.
Throughout December and January the shudder still remains in both 2 and 4wd, and appears to have worsened.
In addition I have found that the driver side windshield wiper head is loose.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to several after market parts suppliers:
Due to a design issue with Dodge Ram front differential and suspension, some owners may experience a vibration in the front end when in 4x4 mode, or a violent shaking vibration of the front wheels when going over a bump at speed. These two symptoms are often called a "death wobble", but actually appear to be two different problems with the Ram truck.
The 4HI mode vibration is a vibration or shudder that occurs when accelerating in 4x4 high mode. This affects Dodge Ram 1500 non mega cabs; Dodge couldn't discover why their stock trucks would do this for some customers. The solution for Dodge was to state that there is no problem and that all of the new Rams will shudder or shake when in 4x4 high. This symptom appears isolated to 2006-2008 1500 non-Mega Cab model trucks and when in 4-hi mode.
"The truck is for off road use only"... LOL
here my history... if you feel like taking the time to read it...
Problem – shudder in 4x4 hi mode operation on any surface
Summary of activity:
11/21/08 – Problem with shudder in 4x4 mode
11/21/08 – Taken Towne Dodge for diagnosis – replace front drive shaft
11/23/08 – Tested and problem still exists
11/23/08 – Dropped back off at Towne Dodge after hours drop off
11/24/08 – Towne Dodge could not find the source of the problem
11/25/08 – Towne Dodge to attempt additional diagnosis – “clocked” the front drive shaft
11/25/08 – Problem persists, although to a lesser extent - dealer could not fix the problem
11/25/08 – Emailed Chrysler with the problem
11/26/08 – Called Chrysler customer service line to make a complaint about the problem
11/29/08 – 4x4 shudder still exists & developing shimmy in 2wd at highway speed
12/01/08 – Called Towne Dodge to get the truck back in
12/03/08 – Towne Dodge repaired the 2wd shimmy, 4x4 shudder still exists as does the 2wd shimmy
12/05/08 – Called Chrysler customer service line to follow-up on my complaint and requested
- Requested arbitration paperwork
12/05/08 – Called Towne Dodge to schedule a 4th appointment to resolve the issue
- Dropping the truck off Tuesday, December 9th
- Towne will be looking at the truck Wednesday, December 10th
12/08/09 – Ashlay from Chrysler customer service called
12/09/08 – dropped off at Towne Dodge for review of the 4x4 shudder and 2wd shimmy
12/10/08 – Both problems still exist
Detailed events:
On November 21st 2008 we got a few inches of snow. I put my truck into 4x4 hi mode and proceeded to pull out of my driveway. Immediately I could feel a shimmy in the truck. As I accelerated I could feel the shimmy develop into a shudder throughout the truck but concentrated below the cab. I took the truck out of 4x4 hi mode and finished my drive to work.
Once at work I called the Towne Dodge service department and spoke with Kevin Jordan. He was able to get me in at 1pm the same day (November 21st). They diagnosed the problem as a “bent front drive shaft” between the transfer case and front differential. They replaced the drive shaft.
We had no snow so I was unable to test the result of their diagnosis and repair until Sunday, November 23rd. After testing on the 23rd I found that the Shudder was still there, just as bad as before the replacement drive shaft was installed. I took the truck to the dealer overnight drop off with a note regarding the problem still remaining.
I called the dealer Monday (November 24th) morning at 8am to make sure they not only got my note, but that they understood the issue was still the same. At 3pm Monday afternoon I called them to see what they had found. The result was that they could not find any issues that would cause the problem.
Unsatisfied with that response I told them that I was on my way and that I wanted the service manager to ride with me. When I arrived Russ told me that he had just taken the truck for a ride, and that there was “definitely a problem with the truck in 4x4 mode”, and that he wanted to keep it another day to try “clocking” or indexing the front drive shaft.
I told him that I would need a loaner vehicle by Tuesday afternoon if they were unable to find the problem and wanted to keep it longer, as I was leaving for Washington, DC to visit my daughter.
The dealer arranged for me to have a loaner through Enterprise car rental, and I received a call from an Enterprise rep that evening (Monday, November 24th).
Tuesday afternoon (November 25th) I called the dealer. The result was that, while they were able to slightly lessen the shudder by indexing the front drive shaft, the shudder was still there in 4x4 hi mode. Kevin informed me that they had called the Chrysler STAR line and was told by Greg that the shudder in 4x4 hi mode is normal for all Dodge 1500 trucks while in 4WD, and that 4x4 hi mode was only for OFF ROAD conditions. This is not an off road truck, nor did it come equipped with all terrain or off road tires, just street radials. Furthermore, it does not state in the owner’s manual that this is an off road truck or that 4x4 hi mode is for off road conditions only.
Still not happy with this response, I picked up my truck from the dealer Tuesday afternoon, November 25th.
That night I logged on to the Chrysler website and sent an email complaint to Chrysler Corp. outlining my experience with this truck.
In addition I called the Chrysler Customer Service line on Wednesday, November 26th at 10:05am before leaving on my trip. I outlined my issue with the Customer Service Representative who then assigned me a reference # (18120065) and then transferred me to the corporate representative. I then outlined my issue with yet another Chrysler representative. That person asked me, “What my expectations of Chrysler were?” I stated, several times, that I either wanted the truck fixed or I did not want the truck. And, that I had not purchased a 4wd vehicle for it not to work properly. One of my best friends owns the same vehicle and does not get a 4x4 hi mode shudder in his truck. And, that I have owned 3 Dodge Rams since the mid 1990’s and have never had any issues of this sort. Her response was that she was going to contact the dealer and have them take a more thorough look at the truck.
I received a return email on Wednesday, November 26th. The contents of the email are attached. Chrysler assigned me a reference # (18118144) as well as an email case # (2141336).
Wednesday, November 26th my wife and I left for Washington, DC and returned on Saturday, November 29th. While taking our trip my wife noticed there was a slight shimmy at highway speed while in 2wd operation.
Sunday, November 30th the shudder in 4x4 mode is still there, and the shimmy in 2wd operation seems to have gotten slightly worse.
Monday, December 1st – called Towne Dodge service department at 8:06am to schedule a 3rd attempt to diagnose the problem. Dropped the truck off Tuesday night for Wednesday, December 3rd appointment.
Wednesday, December 3rd – Dealer determined the 2wd vibration was a result of unbalanced wheels. They rebalanced all four wheels. The 2wd shimmy is still there at highway speeds. The service manager, Bob Voss, told me over the phone that they could not get the 4x4 shudder to go away. Bob claims again that according to STAR (Chrysler) the 4x4 shudder is a normal operating condition for all 1500 4x4s.
Bob went on to state that tires are not all the same and that tires spin at different rates. Bob claims that the new transfer case does not contain a viscous ring, as previous models did. That creates the transfer case to be fully locked when in 4x4 operation. And that the transfer cases with a viscous ring allow wheels on hard pack to spin at different rates without creating a shudder condition. However the new transfer cases without the viscous ring will not allow tires to spin at different rates without creating the shudder. Therefore the truck needs to be used only for off road very loose pack conditions so that the different rates of tire spin can be absorbed by the loose conditions.
Hard pack snow, ice etc will cause the condition. So, on my way home I stopped by my companies Derby plant. The plant is closed for a one week shutdown, therefore the parking lot was not plowed. There was about 3 inches of snow with ice below, loose conditions. I pulled in, stopped the truck, put the truck into 4x4 hi, and lightly accelerated. Immediately the truck began to shudder. The shudder problem persists in ANY condition with this truck.
Furthermore, Bob told me that he received the information from Chrysler regarding my phone call to the Chrysler customer service line. And that he then followed up by saying, since STAR told him this is within their “normal operating condition” that he closed my case with Chrysler.
If you look at the last service record from the dealer, dated December 3rd, they only noted the problem on page two, and never did anything to address the problem.
Friday, December 5th – Called Chrysler’s customer service line to make note that the original case was still not resolved, and that the 4x4 hi mode shudder condition continues to persist. I formally requested arbitration paperwork from Chrysler and was told that I would be contacted within one business day by that department.
Additionally, I contacted the service department at Towne Dodge and requested they look at the problem one more time to be sure they did not miss anything. The truck will be dropped off Tuesday evening (December 9th) for a Wednesday, December 10th appointment to once again attempt to diagnose the 4x4 hi mode shudder, as well as the 2wd vibration.
Monday, December 8th (around 5pm) I received a return call from Ashlay at the Chrysler customer service department in Detroit. He informed me that my truck does not qualify for the Chrysler arbitration as it was a federal mandate for only 5 states, NY not being one of them. Therefore the only thing he could do was to call the service manager at Towne Dodge to have it brought in again. However this time he was going to have the Chrysler “Regional STAR Team” come in to look at my truck, stating that “they can fix everything”. He attempted to contact the Towne Dodge service manager around 5:30pm, however they were closed. He called me back to let me know that he would be calling them tomorrow (Tuesday the 9th) in the AM and that I should call them after to schedule an appointment.
Tuesday, December 9th – dropped the truck off
Wednesday, December 10th – I received a call from Russ at the Towne Dodge service department. He stated that the truck, which has a shudder in 4x4 hi, is within the Chrysler specs. As far as the 2wd vibration is concerned, he stated that the last time they had the truck, on December 3rd, they load balanced the tires, and I was told that is be best the tires are going to get, as they are balanced within Chrysler specs. He went on to explain that the 2wd vibration is likely the result of the OEM Goodyear HP tires, and that when these tires wear out and I need to buy new tires the 2wd vibration should go away.
According to the invoice nothing at all was done on the 10th, and the only thing listed on the invoice was that the truck is within Chrysler specs.
After leaving the dealership I noticed that the 2wd vibration was still there, as is the 4x4 hi mode shudder.
Throughout December and January the shudder still remains in both 2 and 4wd, and appears to have worsened.
In addition I have found that the driver side windshield wiper head is loose.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to several after market parts suppliers:
Due to a design issue with Dodge Ram front differential and suspension, some owners may experience a vibration in the front end when in 4x4 mode, or a violent shaking vibration of the front wheels when going over a bump at speed. These two symptoms are often called a "death wobble", but actually appear to be two different problems with the Ram truck.
The 4HI mode vibration is a vibration or shudder that occurs when accelerating in 4x4 high mode. This affects Dodge Ram 1500 non mega cabs; Dodge couldn't discover why their stock trucks would do this for some customers. The solution for Dodge was to state that there is no problem and that all of the new Rams will shudder or shake when in 4x4 high. This symptom appears isolated to 2006-2008 1500 non-Mega Cab model trucks and when in 4-hi mode.
#15
06-02-2009, 03:47 PM
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2005
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yeah my 06 had issues with the tgc level kit too, when I removed the problem went away.....mostly. Still feels a little loose in front but now 4x4 is fine. With that level kit in there the angle of the driveshafts sure is sharp! It looked way to stressed to me so I removed the kit......I still agree there is something crappy about the 06-08 front Independent suspension though lifted or not lifted
#16
06-02-2009, 03:52 PM
Fantastic write-up. I always hesitated to get a newer Ram because I did not want to mess with MDS (plus the fact that I have a gajillion bucks in mods that I'd lose my a$$ on), I guess the vibration issues is another reason to keep my '04...
Last edited by HammerZ71; 06-02-2009 at 03:59 PM.
#17
06-02-2009, 03:56 PM
keep what ya got as long as ya can bro. I regret ever selling my 2001 Ram QC Off-Road. Even worse, I sold it to my buddy who has no problems at all, even with 110k miles on it. And I have to see it every day... LOL
#18
06-03-2009, 04:43 AM
Veteran
#20
06-03-2009, 10:34 AM