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5.7L Hemi-Broken Valve Spring - Help

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  #21  
Old 03-14-2010, 09:05 PM
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One...last thing...I hope. I was looking at the seal they sold me vs the pic's in the haynes. Haynes shows an intake and exhaust seal, which their pic's look alot different than what I have. Below is what they sold me...this cool for the intake seal?

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  #22  
Old 03-15-2010, 01:37 PM
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Yes that is correct, maybe since you have a older 03 they made some changes and revised things I have 3 or 4 sets of heads laying around and they all have those seals, and WOW that is one FILTY engine valve train, Now Im a beleiver in the mobil1 synthetic with cleaning detergants this was on a 300C it was a 2006 with 93000 miles It has mobil1 ran through it since 500 miles,
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  #23  
Old 03-15-2010, 09:15 PM
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Yeah, no doubt. I'd like to you know what to the original owner for mistreating a motor like that. All I run through the LS1 is Mobile1 syn. as well. Any idea why it's that color in there?


Anyway, I connect compressed air to the cylinder and that air is escaping thru the throttle body which makes the compressor run continous. It's showing that there is only a steady 20-25psi, will this be enough to hold the valve in place? I have the piston TDC. Any risk of that spring falling apart when I remove the rocker? If so, then I need to have the air running during the whole process. Please let me know as I have stopped until I know for sure.

Thanks guys!
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  #24  
Old 03-16-2010, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by FireFighter View Post
Yeah, no doubt. I'd like to you know what to the original owner for mistreating a motor like that. All I run through the LS1 is Mobile1 syn. as well. Any idea why it's that color in there?


Anyway, I connect compressed air to the cylinder and that air is escaping thru the throttle body which makes the compressor run continous. It's showing that there is only a steady 20-25psi, will this be enough to hold the valve in place? I have the piston TDC. Any risk of that spring falling apart when I remove the rocker? If so, then I need to have the air running during the whole process. Please let me know as I have stopped until I know for sure.

Thanks guys!
That doesn't sound right?
Sounds as though the inlet valve is still open on the cylinder your applying the air to, to bleed back through to the TB the way your describing.
I wonder if the valves bent, not allowing the valve to come all the way up to seal as it should?
The cylinder should hold air if the valves are on there seats.
If air doesn't work, try the old "nylon cord" trick mentioned earlier in this thread.
That will get you to the point of removing the valve to check it's integrity.
Al.
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  #25  
Old 03-16-2010, 04:06 AM
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Yep, difinitely sounds like air is leaking past the intake valve into the intake. Recheck TDC for that cylinder.
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  #26  
Old 03-16-2010, 04:45 AM
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I think when I posted a while back about what psi should I use when doing a valve job, I was quoted 80psi.
Someone will post up. I think Weed has done it the air way when he installed his cam. He might post up the pressure he used.
As for the leak as RedTruck-VA said, are you sure your at TDC for that piston?
If you are, then the valve isn't seating and it could be bent if the spring is snapped.
If so, you will need new guides for that cylinder along with a valve and a valve job to get the new one seated.
Check the top of the piston in that cylinder with a boroscope, to make sure the top of the piston isn't damaged if you discover that the valves bent.
I know that most people would pull the head at that stage, if they found a bent valve.
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  #27  
Old 03-16-2010, 04:55 AM
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Please keep us updated on this as I am very interested. Also, I thought the exhaust springs were the problem, not the intakes. Please clarify... Thanks.
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  #28  
Old 03-16-2010, 04:59 AM
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Yes, I believe it is usually the exhaust side of things that go awry RedTruck-VA. Something about the lift being higher on the exhaust side causing spring failures? I believe you replace all 16 valve springs though if your going to do the 6.1 spring change.
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  #29  
Old 03-16-2010, 05:17 AM
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Agreed, all 16 exhaust valve springs upgraded to the 6.1 springs is the way to go. But again he mentioned using an intake oil seal, so I don't know what's broken on his engine. Obviously exhaust valves run hotter than the intakes and this additional heat gets transfered to the spring to a certain extent and if the spring isn't top quality it can be prone to breakage.
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  #30  
Old 03-16-2010, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireFighter View Post
1) Not related to problem but if you look at the pic's there is an almost like bronze/sunset color to the interior. I bought the truck used with 34K miles on it. Under both covers, there is gunk, sludge and I pulled out a couple 2" in diameter "wafers" of baked crap!! Almost looks like this motor got real hot one time before along with NO oil changes before I got it. Don't see how someone could treat their ride like this! What do you all think? I'm afraid that the initial abuse to this machine may cause a shortened life. Although, she's got 169K now and never a problem accept the two springs and alt.

Notice the pic of the lower spring, this is the one that got changed 4 years/60K miles ago, looks almost new...the way it should with proper oil changes.
Certain oils and additives will stain the inside of the engine. RP we all know is one of them. I use it and I can tell you from pulling my engine apart that is does change the color of the engine internals.

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Originally Posted by FireFighter View Post
2) Before I attempt to remove the rocker arm, should I get compressed air into the cylinder 1st should the spring fall apart? Don't wanna drop the valve. When I shoot the air, does it matter which plug hole I use? Any particular PSI I should use? My compressor works at 90PSI.
When I did mine I rotated to that cylinders TDC and put my air hose in the cyl to fill with air. My take has about 200psi but doesnt cut on until 75psi and i had no issues holding the valve in place. I used my socket on the crank snout with a 1/2" breaker bar and a piece or pipe laid against the frame. I suggest you stand on that pipe against the frame because when you connect the air line to the cyl it WILL push the piston down and try to rotate the engine. This in turn will crack open a valve so air will pass by and you could drop a valve is the leak is bad enough. I never had any issues but the possibility is there. So it is normal to hear the air passing past the valve a small bit.

Once that is done I put my spring compressor on, squeeze the spring, remove the keepers and retainer, release the valve, swap the valve, compress the valve, put back on the retainer and keepers and let the spring up slowly.

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3) When I go to get the #5 cylinder TDC, can this be done from below the truck? It looks like the fan, etc will be in the way. I don't have a large breaker bar, maybe a 2 footer...this is not large enough is it? Any simple way of doing this? Never done it before. Also, when it's TDC, the spring should be fully extended/rocker arm raised, correct?
I did all of mine above the engine. The fan and shroud are easy to remove. A 2' breaker bar is fine but again, a piece of pipe to add to it helps. Before you can pull the springs you will need to pull the entire rocker arm shaft so when you do that all of those springs will be fully extended

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Originally Posted by FireFighter View Post
4) After the spring is removed, then I need to put a zip tie, etc on valve stem to keep it up, release the air and then move the valve up/down to make sure it's not bent correct?
Putting a zip tie on the end to act as a retainer is a good idea. And yes you could then release the air and rotate the valve by hand to check it as best you can.

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Originally Posted by FireFighter View Post
5) Add air again, change spring, zip her up, start motor, smile, jump for joy that I've just completed a major task in my eyes?
exactly and hopefully thats all there will need to be done

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Originally Posted by FireFighter View Post
Thanks weedahoe, that's awesome. I will let you know. Going to check on prices, etc. Money is tight right now so I may take you up on that. I see you're in GA also.
No prob and again, just LMK if you need anything.
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  #31  
Old 03-16-2010, 10:59 AM
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Thanks everyone. Intake spring on top rocker arm driver's side. The rocker has an "I" on it in the photo I posted.

Wow, now I am really confused.

Ok, I have all plugs removed and serpentine belt removed. Still have rockers in place due to wanting air in cyl. before taking rocker off in case spring falls apart.

I used Weed's coat hanger method for TDC...but I saw in Haynes that it's supposed to be on the compression stroke. Not sure of it is or not? What is worrying me now is that I had my wife turn the motor as I watched the coat hanger to mark it, it was easy and no pipe/leverage needed....did it with 21mm and 1/2" socket wrench. I faintly remember my buddy doing this on my LS1 TA and it was a chore for him. What am I doing wrong....why is it so easy to turn? I missing something. Now, I'm freaking out.

When I 1st connected air to my #5 cylinder in the closet plug hole to me, I have plug installed in other for that cylinder, air came out of the opposite side #6 cyl. I installed the 2 plugs back in there and that's when I heard/felt air coming through/out the throttle body.
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  #32  
Old 03-16-2010, 11:10 AM
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Like i said, air coming out the other cylinder is normal.

With all the plugs out the engine IS easy to spin over. Put plugs in the cylinders and then you have to overcome the compression
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  #33  
Old 03-16-2010, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weedahoe View Post
Like i said, air coming out the other cylinder is normal.

With all the plugs out the engine IS easy to spin over. Put plugs in the cylinders and then you have to overcome the compression
Heh, heh. I know ya'll think I'm slow. I am! Anyway, yes, that's why I pulled all 16 plugs so that it would be easy. So, obviously, I need the plugs in for compression when applying my air source. I don't know the complete internals of the motor, so I am assuming their are connecting valleys, etc and hence my loss of air.

I'm guessing that the cylinder is TDC but on the wrong stroke due to air coming out of the TB (valve not seated)? Although, the spring looks to be fully extended. Will I be safe taking the rocker arms off 1st without air...is there a chance of that broken spring falling apart and me dropping a valve without having air?

I owe you all for all of this. I'll be back in a couple hours, need to go buy new compressor, just found out mine has fire hazard recall...ironically, the motor kept tripping the internal breaker on it last night.
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  #34  
Old 03-16-2010, 11:49 AM
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The problem is not finding TDC, it is KEEPING it once you apply air. And again that is only because even with both valves closed, the air tries (and will) push the piston down the cylinder. The in turn makes you lose TDC and because of the engine rotating, it cracks a valve open and loses air.

But overall it sounds like you are doing fine so far. Just dont loose those valve stem keepers!!
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:02 PM
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Ok, that make more sense now. Ok, headed out to buy new compressor, will put plugs back in (new ones) and start over. No wonder I'm losing air. How frigging ironic for my compressor to be tripping its internal breaker last night and for me to find this http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08210.html So, headed to Home Depot to buy a new Husky 20 gallon/155psi for $179. That ought to be better anyway. Also, not one parts store had all my plugs, 1 had 8, the other had 2...they just called and have them now...crazy man.

I will update and thank you so much for helping me out.
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:55 PM
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Ok, had a few speedbumps in my schedule and got back on it tonight. It doesn't look good.

I've got all the plugs in, I used the coat hanger method of TDC, I rotated the crank until the coat hanger topped out and stopped when it slightly began it's down stroke. Also, still with all plugs in, the motor is fairly easy to turn with the breaker bar, no pipe needed. I applied air to the cylinder and I still have the air escaping from thru the TB.

I found that the spring is broken in 2 places, opposite from each other. I can very easily turn the spring around with the rocker arm still attached. I am afraid to remove the rocker until I have that valve secure. Obviously the valve is not seating?

Nylon rope method...you mean to feed as much as possible down inside cyl. to fill the cavity, turn motor to get piston up as far as possible....is this to have the nylon rope filling the cyl to keep the valve from dropping?

Man, this has me worried now. Will wait to hear from you guys.
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  #37  
Old 03-18-2010, 12:12 AM
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on the rope method... yes, fill the cylinder with rope so that when you push the piston back up it will put force up against the valve & it will not drop when you remove the retainer...

since you have it partially torn down, I'd suggest retesting with the air once you have the new spring in place. if its still leaking with that cylinder at TDC, you most likely have a valve seat issue or bent valve (air leaking thru the intake or exhaust).
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:28 AM
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Ok, cool, thanks Steve. Wanted verification on the rope before I attempted. So, if there is a seat issue of the valve and it's not bent, is this something I can fix here or will I have to pull the head?
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:35 AM
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if you swap the spring, put the piston @ TDC for that cylinder and it still is leaking air, you have an issue with that cylinder and you will most likely have to pull the head.

had a #8 valve seat die on my old 360 gasser and the air pressure test told me which valve seat had the problem before I pulled the head. $40 bux later I was bolting it back together. total $ for yanking the head (all parts & fluids) was about $150 bux IIRC. hopefully you wont have that issue...
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:08 AM
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Ok, will try the nylon rope, swap the spring and see what happens. Thank you steve. Only thing I don't understand is that if the air did hold, and I retain the valve via zip tie, etc, stop the air to test the integrity of the valve, how does it seat itself back correctly? I guess that I'm not understanding the seating properties.
Will let ya'll know what happens.
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Last edited by FireFighter; 03-18-2010 at 01:33 AM..
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