Go Back   DodgeForum.com > Dodge Trucks > Dodge Ram > 3rd Gen Ram Tech
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


3rd Gen Ram Tech 2002-2008 Rams: This section is for TECHNICAL discussions only, that involve the 2002 through 2008 Rams Rams. For any non-tech discussions, please direct your attention to the "General discussion/NON-tech" sub sections.

Brake fluid change

Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 10-30-2010, 11:36 PM
Carrolls Ram Carrolls Ram is offline
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Vehicle: 2007 Ram 1500 Hemi 4x4
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 89
Default Brake fluid change

Its about that time for a complete brake system overhaul. I've got 51k on the pads which are almost gone, fluid is super dark and i've got mad brake fade if I hit the pedal too hard. What you guys using for fluid? Was probably just gonna get some fluid from Mopar unless theres something better out there
This ad is not displayed to registered and logged-in members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Dodge Forums!
__________________
Front Mount Turbo hemi Ram
iEMS3 Tuned
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-31-2010, 03:57 AM
Senomar_DTK Senomar_DTK is offline
Professional
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 219
Default

Just make sure it's DOT 3 fluid and to bleed the lines when you put new stuff in them.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-31-2010, 04:13 AM
drewactual's Avatar
drewactual drewactual is offline
Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Vehicle: '02 1500 5.9L Magnum
Location: Cape Carteret NC
Posts: 2,697
Default

if the pads are almost gone, there is your reason for fade... the hydro doesn't have to move the calipers that far on new pads.. a 1/4" of shoe makes all the difference.. you could always put more fluid in to correct the fade, but that's just that much more you'll lose when bleeding them with the new pads and opening the calipers..

unless you've got a real good reason to be concerned about something tainting your fluid (as in your closed system isn't really closed) , I'd tell you straight up that draining and replacing fluid in a closed circuit system such as brakes is about as useful as changing the air in your tires.. now if there is something deteriorating to the point that the fluid is really whacky looking, it may serve you well to figure out what that is and fixing it when you do the pads... or you'll be changing your fluid again in another 50k miles or so..
__________________
'02 1500 4x4, 5.9L Magnum, 1.7 RR's, SCT, Hedman Headers, efan,,Air-Gap, true duals, 52mm TB, 4.56:1 Motive R&P's factory LSD..


Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-31-2010, 10:15 AM
dirtydog's Avatar
dirtydog dirtydog is offline
Moderate User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Vehicle: 2008 Ram QC 4x4 BigHorn
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 10,863
Send a message via Yahoo to dirtydog
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewactual View Post
if the pads are almost gone, there is your reason for fade... the hydro doesn't have to move the calipers that far on new pads.. a 1/4" of shoe makes all the difference.. you could always put more fluid in to correct the fade, but that's just that much more you'll lose when bleeding them with the new pads and opening the calipers..

unless you've got a real good reason to be concerned about something tainting your fluid (as in your closed system isn't really closed) , I'd tell you straight up that draining and replacing fluid in a closed circuit system such as brakes is about as useful as changing the air in your tires.. now if there is something deteriorating to the point that the fluid is really whacky looking, it may serve you well to figure out what that is and fixing it when you do the pads... or you'll be changing your fluid again in another 50k miles or so..
I have to disagree with everything you have said.

Dark colored brake fluid is contaminated and needs to be flushed out. Old brake fluid is contaminated and needs to be flushed out even if it's not dark colored. Brake fluid absorbs moisture like a sponge. Moisture in brake fluid lowers it's boiling temp, takes away it's firmness which in turn causes delayed reaction. FYI..moisture can very easily get into a closed system so it doesn't need to be open to obtain moisture. It's called condensation! Adding more fluid does absolutely nothing because brake fluid relies on pressure. So, to say that the fluid doesn't go that far is true, but only because it's pressure that controls the calipers.
If you have contaminated fluid you def will notice a difference in pedal response regardlesss of how old or new your pads are!
Also, old fluid that conatins moisture creates rust inside your brake parts and is the main cause of caliper seizure and master cylinder problems!!!
I wouldn't use DOT3 if you plan to do a complete flush either. Go directly to DOT4 and use Synthetic fluid. Eitherway, use Synthetic. It's a much better and more advanced fluid than the cheapo stuff. It has a higher boiling point and is more responsive. (boiling point is critical in brake fluid as the temps can get extremely hot. Touch your rotors after a good city drive and see if the skin..if any is left...agree with this..haha, no don't do it, just trust me)
To do a simple bleed by yourself, get a one-man bleeder. They are like $6. You put the hose over the bleeder screw and stick the bleeder bladder up higher(they usually have a magnet to stick to your frame) Open the bleeder screw and begin to pump your brake pedal. Now, 2 things, DO NOT pump your brake pedal to the floor. Only pump 75% of the way or you can possibly cause damage to the seals inside the master cylinder if there's any sort of rust on the shaft(something you cannot see) the rust is there because obviously you never fully press your pedal down on a closed system so the surface rust is inevitable. 2. every 2 bladders you fill up, top off your brake fluid. i like to let the fluid go as low as possible so there's less mixing going on, but don't let air in the system or it may go into the ABS pump which is a pia to get out.
Start at the rear pass wheel, then driver rear, then pass front, the driver front. You'll want to go around the vehicle twice and on the second time, just fill the bladder only once. usually 5 pumps on the pedal fills it up, but check on your first fill to be sure. Also, make sure you colse the bleeder screw whenever you take off the bladder container to dump it out.
You shuld be able to flush your brake fluid for no more than $20.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-31-2010, 10:32 AM
loflyer2 loflyer2 is offline
Professional
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Vehicle: 2005 Dodge Ram Hemi 4x4 160k miles
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 107
Default

Dirty is right on. Brake fluid is designed to be non-compressible to give you good pedal response. The bad part is to achieve this non-compressibility requires the use of compounds that absorb water, and water is created in form of condensation when your brakes are heated and then cool. I recommend using DOT 4. I used to change my brake fluid every 30k miles with DOT 3 and it was dark brown and contaminated every time. I've already gone 50k on DOT 4 and it is still fairly clean. Probably due to higher boiling point.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-31-2010, 12:58 PM
Sixtysixdeuce Sixtysixdeuce is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 674
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewactual View Post
if the pads are almost gone, there is your reason for fade... the hydro doesn't have to move the calipers that far on new pads.. a 1/4" of shoe makes all the difference.. you could always put more fluid in to correct the fade, but that's just that much more you'll lose when bleeding them with the new pads and opening the calipers.
..
Uhhhhhh...........the caliper pistons don't retract to a set point like wheel cylinders do under spring pressure. They are completely self adjusting, retracting only a tiny fraction of an inch to release pressure from the pads. This is done by the flexing of the square cut seals. Some set-ups use small wire springs to augment this. With a 4 wheel disc system, the pedal should be the same whether the pads are new or almost gone. If he's getting a low or spongy pedal, he's got a leak/bypass, or air in the system. Or an ABS dump valve issue, which is very unlikely. We used to see that a lot in the '90s Kelsey-Hayes sytems, but it's really a thing of the past.

One other possibility is a failed wheel bearing; If the bearing gets loose enough, the rotor will cant relative to the caliper, pushing the brake pads back. When that happens, the pistons have to move much further than normal, and do so with quite a bit of resistance. I've had plenty of vehicles with this condition where the caliper was getting compressed far enough that a single stroke of the master cylinder piston wouldn't take up the travel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewactual View Post
unless you've got a real good reason to be concerned about something tainting your fluid (as in your closed system isn't really closed) , I'd tell you straight up that draining and replacing fluid in a closed circuit system such as brakes is about as useful as changing the air in your tires.. now if there is something deteriorating to the point that the fluid is really whacky looking, it may serve you well to figure out what that is and fixing it when you do the pads... or you'll be changing your fluid again in another 50k miles or so..
As dirty dog already covered pretty well, this is absolutely not true. Brake fluid is Hygroscopic (moisture absorbing). How much it absorbs in a given mileage depends on the system design, the climate in which it's operated, and the driving habits (more aggressive braking causes more heat, thus more expansion and contration of the fluid, which will cause it to displace and then suck in more atmosphere when it cools). For some reason, Domestic vehicles almost always saturate brake fluid faster than Asian cars. It should be changed every 30-50k.

And for the record, water saturation isn't contamination. It will not cause swelling of seals like petroleum contamination will. But it does lower the boiling point of the fluid, and if the water content exceeds the saturation point, you'll get corrosion (rust and oxidized aluminum).

The absolute correct way to flush the system includes activating the ABS with a scan tool. However, we don't even do that at the shop unless the customer requests it. It makes a $40 flush go up to $100. You get the overwhelming majority of the old fluid flushing the conventional part of the system, and the fluid in the ABS valve body will eventually mix with the new stuff, lowering water content of the entire system to a minimal amount.
__________________


www.NJBauto.com

Last edited by Sixtysixdeuce; 10-31-2010 at 01:06 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-31-2010, 01:31 PM
drewactual's Avatar
drewactual drewactual is offline
Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Vehicle: '02 1500 5.9L Magnum
Location: Cape Carteret NC
Posts: 2,697
Default

heheheheeee- yeah, I shut up now.. :-)
__________________
'02 1500 4x4, 5.9L Magnum, 1.7 RR's, SCT, Hedman Headers, efan,,Air-Gap, true duals, 52mm TB, 4.56:1 Motive R&P's factory LSD..


Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-31-2010, 07:07 PM
Carrolls Ram Carrolls Ram is offline
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Vehicle: 2007 Ram 1500 Hemi 4x4
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 89
Default

I appreciate the Info guys. The pedal feels fine but if I had to really press on it to stop quick, the truck just doesnt wanna stop like it used to. I've had a few timews where i've almost had to go into the grass. Now easy braking isnt bad but its not like it used to be.

Regardless the pads and the fluid need to be changed. I want to upgrade to some slotted rotors and ceramic pads, but idk if I want to swing that kind of cash right now. Getting ready to do an overhaul on my turbo system.. I may just get some ceramic pads and flush the old fluid out and upgrade the rotors at a later date.
__________________
Front Mount Turbo hemi Ram
iEMS3 Tuned
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-01-2010, 08:12 AM
weedahoe's Avatar
weedahoe weedahoe is offline
Site Moderator
Dodge Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Vehicle: 04 Dodge Ram QC
Location: South GA
Posts: 18,868
TrickedOut DodgeRam Weedahoe1977
Send a message via AIM to weedahoe Send a message via MSN to weedahoe Send a message via Yahoo to weedahoe
Default

Just swap out that brake booster for a hydro boost......
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-01-2010, 08:30 AM
loflyer2 loflyer2 is offline
Professional
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Vehicle: 2005 Dodge Ram Hemi 4x4 160k miles
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 107
Default

Ceramic pads are fairly expensive and perform more poorly than the metallic compound pads. Ceramic pads produces less friction and longer stopping distances. Only advantage of ceramic is that the ceramic dust doesn't cling to your wheels. TireRack has good comparison of brake pads that is worth checking before making a decision. I have Hawk LTS and quickly noticed an improvement over OEM, using OEM rotors.
Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2010, 08:30 AM
 
 
 
Reply




Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump

Join DodgeForum
Advertising

Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory
Our Sponsors
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:21 PM.

Internet Brands, Inc.


Contact Details & Emails