Yes, I'm aware of Dodges past involvement with Mitsubishi, and I'll say that I do like the looks of the new Evo. But, like I said I'm a loyal Doge owner. My first car was a 1990 Dodge Colt. This car was built entirely by Mitsubishi I think, but Dodge sold it, it said Dodge on the back. I bought it used from my uncle, who had driven it across country a few times,in 1998 (maybe '99) for $1,000 with about 68,000 miles on the clock. I might even still have that car if I had not totalled it about 3 months after I got it. I probably wouldn't, but i might have, oh well.

Also, I said that the price of a new Evo is more than I can afford, and we've been talking about new car models, not used car shopping. Plus, I'm not in the market for a car now anyways. We got my wife a new '07 Caliber R/T last year, which we just love by the way, but had to finance $22K over 7 YEARS to be able to afford the payments; and I just got my '00 Club Cab Dakota in August for $6,000 (book was about $7600, mileage included)with 191,000 miles on it, and it runs great.

The only time I've ever had a problem with a vehicle, and all I've ever had has been Dodge, has been when I've neglected regular maintenance, and so that was my bad, not Dodge's fault.

 

Simple fact is NO ONE will buy a 30K calibar. Dodge did the right thing. This car is made to compete with the civic Si and Scon tc segmentsand it will dominate. Putting the Calibar in the WRX and EVO segment would have been the SRT-4's death sentance.WRX and EVO's have years of racing AWD and you want Dodge to create one in a few months that would be able to compete, come on it's not going to happen. For a Dodge forum, it's seems all people do is bash everthing Dodge does.

 

Perhaps when Dodge actually starts listening to its customers rather then trashing great vehicles or building crap no one wants.....we'll all stop bashing them...

I will however agree with you that a 30k Caliber simply wouldnt have sold......there's no way to justify the cost to any customer...

 

i wasnt trying to question your fanhood...or your choice of vehicles, but it seemed to me like you were bagging on mitsubishi, who has done nothing but good things for chrysler corporation over the years.

you guys are talking like the srt4 caliber is going to fly off the shelves, and i dont forsee it happening...considering its power output, its price, and the class of vehicle, it doesnt really fit into any class. a 24,000 dollar, compact 4-door station wagon, with 300hp...? the only way that it would fit into a class, is if the toyots matrix or pontiac vibe came out with a performance model...and guess what, it doesnt take much to climb the srt4 right up around 30,000 with tax and title...

 

30K Caliber? BS An AWD system should only add about $3,000 to the price tag. It would cost you $26,000.It would be cheaper than both the Evo and the STi. It should have been an option, like on the Avenger!

 

i think that one of the real truths here about not having AWD, is that portions of this car were built by GEMA, and if they DID offer the srt4 as an AWD package, they are competing too much with the evo, and im sure that mitsubishi didnt like the sound of that.

 

This is a low volumn car (unlike the Avanger), to get an AWD system for 3G's they would have to sell houndreds of thousands of these to just cover the development costs. We all know this car will not sell that many. And I'm baffled everyone wants AWD, to me the best thing they could have done is gone RWD that would have keep cost down and theyare using one on the Demond so theres 2 cars they could use the RWD system on.

 

Where to begin?Okay 2coff, let me explain to you why the lower cost approach does not work and has not worked in this category. For years now, Chrysler, Ford, and GM have all offered less expensive offerings in comparison to the Japanese manufactures and the reason why they were less expensive is they didn't offer an equal vehicle. In some cases (GM) what they cutt out was interior quality. In other cases they cutt out performance (Ford). In yet other cases, they cutt out competitive options (Chrysler). This is why they keep losing sales, people want these things and they are willing to pay the extra money for them. Now after being perceived as being inferior for 30 years, when they have caught up or exceeded the competition they are struggling to catch on because of 1 and a half generations of people observing the Big Three offering models that were not competitive. If they want to regain the market, they have to offer an equal or better car while offering a competitive price and demostrate in each of their models that they are superior.

The RWD idea for the SRT-4 is not an answer because RWD is still inferior to the AWD models they would like to compete against. AWD providesmore performance potential while being able to maintain control.Out of all theSRT-8s, the Grand Cherokeehas the lowest 0-60 numbers partly because of the AWD systems superior traction which is not offered in the LX SRTs.To help with theproduction issue with making an SRT-4 AWD theyshould start to offer the SRT-4 engine on more models: the Demon concept, atrue replacement for the Neon,an Avenger and Sebring SRT, and the Caliber version of course. The wider spread of such a powertrain would help with the economies of scale. The simple fact is the Caliber shares the same platform as the Avenger and could use a similar system in theory. Also the production difference between the Caliber and Avenger is really not that different as the Caliber is about a 85K a year seller (besides the fact that they were able to offer the AWD system on the R/T model of the Caliber already).

Patrick: Yes, I definitely think that Mitsubishi had a hand in the reason why the Caliber was not offered in AWD. The reason why I'm so against rebadging and using other company's technology instead of updating and building your own is you will never be allowed to offer the best product possible as it creates a conflict of interest. Take the Stratus/Sebring coupes in comparison to the Eclipse for example, I remember the Eclipse having a slightly higher output version of the 3.0L that was never offered in the Stratus/Sebring coupes. Mitsubishi had to keep their best interests in mind as they would not make as much profit potentially off of the clones as they would on their own model, so naturally they wanted to save their best technology for themselves. It was also true in the case of the Eclipse, Talon, and Laser. The Eclipse was the only version that offered a convertible. In the case of the 3000GT/Stealth, the 3000GT was the only one to get all-wheel-steering. Everytime you look, Mitsubishi gets the best model as they are entitled to it since it was afterall their design. The reverse was also true with the Dakota/Raider. The Dakota was the only one allowed to have the manual with the 4.7L and the only one allowed to have the H.O. 4.7L, now it is the only one with the 4.7L. Joint ventures only benefit the one who designed the car.

DSM models weren'talwaysthe fastest, but they were the most consistent in production and more affordable. The Daytona R/T in some trials was found to be faster than the Talon and Laser, but it was only produced for two years in much lower production, whereas the Eclipse clones ran from 90-94 for the Laser and 90-98 for the Talon. The Stealth was faster than the Daytona R/T by a considerable amount and ran from 91-96, but the Viper was faster (and considerably more expensive).

Also remember that performance as a whole began to disappeared after Eaton was put incharge. The Avenger/Sebring were a step down or two in performance compared to the Daytona and LeBaron. The Stratus/Cirrus/Breeze, never had the competitive engine offerings that the more plan looking Spirit/LeBaron/Acclaim had. The only thing that was an improvement was the LH cars but that was because Chrysler did not have any forced air inducted V6s in any of "their" cars and the 3.5L was a huge step up from the best V6 offering they had to offer before this (the 3.8L OHV). The Neon in the first generation didn't get to enjoy the V6 offering nor the turbo engines that the Shadow and Sundance got to enjoy. So remember to keep the entire picture in mind.

The only good thing that came out of the merger was the return to performance which the short lived Neon SRT-4 was quite fast, but desperately needed AWD to compete against the Evo (as well as some more power).

But back to the Caliber SRT-4, I agree it will not fly off the dealer lots in sales. The closest competitor would be the MAZDASPEED 3 and you don't see those everywhere which says to me that there are no guarantees. I've never been crazy about the whole Caliber idea anyways.

 

I hate to argue, but Id have to see a Daytona RT, in stock form, that would stay within a ballpark of my laser with just exhaust...the turbo daytona had amazing potential to be madefast, as did many of the turbo dodge models, but the V6 daytonas were pigs compared to the turbo models. many of them which ive seen for sale were automatics, which would make them slower yet...the daytona died with the RT models because they didnt have the performance or the aftermarket of the turbo models.

my awd laser, with exhaust, a minor boost leak, and 120,000+ miles ran a 9.2X 8th mile...amanda truck ran a 9.4 8th mile, which was a 14.8-14.9 quarter mile...ive never seen a daytona RT run better than high 14s...

AWD is far superior to any other drivetrain configuration, unless youre just worried about horsepower figures...for drag racing or road racing, the benefit of 4 drive wheels shadows the extra drivetrain loss of the AWD, unless you have a powerful enough car to lift the front wheels, such as brent raus 6 second 200+ mph eclipse, which is RWD. however, look at shepard racing's 1g talon...high 7s, street legal, with street tires? he is faster than most of the FWD outlaw cars, running full slicks, because he can rip it out of the hole. FWD just doesnt make sense for racing, as the weight transfer is always working AGAINST you...and the drive wheels are being overworked when they are also the steering wheels...and anyone who "doesnt understand the fuss about AWD" doesnt have any experience with AWD...thus isnt qualified to hand out information about it.

the other night, i was coming back from hockey late at night with the laser...crisp, cool night..very dry. i was on a long, sweeping right hand turn, when a mustang came flying along side me...as we would both crack into it, he would pull ahead of me a bit, until he would slide a bit, at which point i would pass him...there was nothing that he could do to get away from me, even though my car has some 60 less bhp, if he was stock..if i was to do the same thing in the stratus, going around this turn under power would cause the wheels to spin, but the laser can take the same turns, under power, 15-20mph faster, and i can accelerate out of the turn much sooner. through the same 180 degree "roundabout", i can come out of it with the laser, some 30mph faster than the stratus..the laser is lighter, and a manual trans, but it has less "stated" power...

from a dig, i can basically side step the clutch at any rpm, and the laser will jump off the line, without a hint of wheelspin...even the stratus, which turned in an 8th mile time a second and a half slower, will spin the tires on a 2500rpm launch, and the same goes for amandas truck, which ran slightly slower times than the laser.

thats why the evo and skylinedominate the racing classes in which they compete, and thats why a huge amount of the quicker street-tire cars at import events are DSMs or Evos.

 

BadStratRT:

I wasn't bagging on Mitsubishi. Actually the only manufacturers I really do bag on are Ford, GM, and Kia. Ford, to me is an onrunning joke. GM, worse than a Jeep as far as maintenance, and you've heard people say how a Jeep will nickel and dime you to death. My dad is a Chevy truck guy, but he's always fixing some stupid little thing, moslty taillight assemblies and door/tailgate latches. Kia, well, I think is just about the cheapest made pieces of junk on the planet.

I actually have respect for cars such as the Evo, GT-R/Skyline, Supra, etc... They are real performers in stock form, with almost unlimited potential in the aftermarket. And that's what people like us are all about, isn't it?