98 Intermittent No-start condition

[knkreb]

Okay, here it goes... first post, and I'm not the owner... but working toward a resolution. 98, intermittent - no-start condition. Enter in, attempt start, may run for about 1-3 seconds, dash gauges do not respond (stay as in Key Off, Engine off condition) May start in subsequent attempts, or may not. Equipped with theft deterent system. While actually driving, sometimes gauges go out, but continues to run. I've read about the dash ground being a source of problem for losing instrumentation, however... is this ground responsible for any of the theft deterent features as well? Is the theft deterant program part of the ECM, or another other module? Check Engine/Service engine/MIL (which you may term it as) is illuminted, but unable to get started to go have codes read for diagnostics (at local automotive parts house). After doing a search, could not find such an instance as this, unless my terminology used in search was improper. Looking for some avenues to persue here.

This ad is not displayed to registered and logged-in members. Register your free account today and become a member on Dodge Forums!

[pmarr617]

knkreb, I had a similiar problem last year, checked my wiring but found nothing. When I replaced my gauge package, it went away and hasn't been back for more than a year.

I got lucky and found a used one in top notch shape.

Hope this helps!

[knkreb]

Did you have a no-start condition, or just an instrument issue?

[Dodge Tech]

insterment cluster and has to be programed when a new one is installed.
Yes a no start will be part of it.

[eddieburroughs]

Here are some more specific details (i'm the owner) knkreb is a great friend!

I found these codes:

P0401 = Exhaust gas recirculation flow insufficient detected
P1698 = No CCD message from TCM

I have had my suspicions that the car not starting was related to the anti-theft system. I have found plenty of suggestions on this issue alone.

1. When it won’t start get out and lock the car with the key – wait – unlock the can with the key (which resets the anti-theft system) then try again.
2. I have been told that the system registers three doors. Driver and passengers side doors. And the tailgate.
3. If the car doesn’t start try number 1. on all three doors
4. I was also told that outside replacing the computer module with one that doesn’t have the anti-theft component I would have to never use the keyless entry to lock the doors and should not use the power locks but should always use the manual locks to lock up. This was suppose to by-pass the system and never arm the theft device.

I wish I could tell you that all or some of that helped me. It didn’t.

I was also told that I might have a ground wire loose someplace and this would cause all these issues.

Well when I got the codes above I spoke with a man at the parts house and he suggested I get a new key.

That it seems that the van is not recognizing the key. This would explain why none of the reset procedures worked for me. He said that the TCM in the code means Theft Control Module. He seemed confident, which all seem to me. I am clueless.

I am not sure that the two issues the car starting and the instrument panel are related.

What do you think about the key? Could the key "go bad"? I have never heard of this before. I was told there is a sensor in the key that lets the van know it is the right key.

Although it would be cheaper to get new keys then the instrument cluster.

What do you think?

[dishdude2k]

the theft control in a 1998 isnt what your thinking.. the key.. isnt chipped.. you could take that key to wal-mart and get a copy for 2 bucks.. the theft control monitors those areas when its armed.. its armed by locking the doors and closing them.. this doesnt matter if its manual locking.. power locking.. or remote locking.. it all arms it.. to un arm it.. you either use the key or remote.. then its unarmed.. all it does is monitor these doors to see if they get opened.. they key has nothing to do with the theft control other than to unlock the doors.. there is no chip in this key..

[eddieburroughs]

here is a website i have found:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Chrysler-...xExp_63082.htm

just for reference

Eddie

[knkreb]

Instrument panel failure is intermittent. It fails on no-start and also intermittently during driving. Sounds like the bad ground connection failure that others have made reference to.

My question is in eliminating one thing at a timehere,could instrument panel ground be creating a data bus issue, or does it use a different ground source?

I'm just now coming into understand the Dodge way of doing things (I'm a GM guy)... but if the ground is bad during the starting sequence, could that trip a no-start by failure of the anti-theft system? Then while driving down the road the ground breaks again (restored by hitting dashboard) it won't cause a stall issue because it's no longer in a starting sequence that would have the anti-theft system confused?

[Dodge Tech]

if u have a bus issue more then one computer will go down like the air bag,abs,tcm,over head if u have one.
U want a sure fire way take out the insterment cluster for a week and see if it does a no start or dies while driving. A stall issue wont be from the anti theft because its not actice once the van is running only when the key fob arms the system and thats the only time that it will have any affect of the van starting and running.

[knkreb]

Well folks, the answer is.... bad solder joint on the back of the instrument cluster.

Started out with no-start-no-run condition (no instruments either). Pulled the dash out - still no starter or run condition. Pulled the instrument panel out, plugged and replugged - instruments worked, engine started and ran. Unplugged the instrument panel - start and run okay. Next, turn to "on" in no-run condition, jiggled the connector in the back of the instrument cluster and connection would make and break. Ina break state, engine would start, run and shut down in 3 seconds. Ah ha! Pulled the plug, looked, checked the pins and bent the in the plug to make sure that there was no female plug issue. Plug back in - try again. In a break state, would start and die. Pulled the instument cluster, and pulled apart, found the connection pin to the black/green ground wire to have the smallest little hair line crack around it. Resoldered it, and the others too just in case, that had any traces to them. Reinstalled, jiggled the plug, could not replicate a break state this time. Test drove, all seems well now at the moment.