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Oil Leak Front Main Seal ?

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Old 01-17-2012, 05:03 PM
GQ-ROD GQ-ROD is offline
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Default Oil Leak Front Main Seal ?

This is a general question, ( not caravan specific but you have all been so helpful ! )

Just put in a new oil pan gasket( 1995 ford aspire auto 1.3 liter engine, ) fel pro gasket, 2 rubber end pieces, black rtv supplied for rest of pan.

Torqued all bolts to correct INCH pound values, cris cross, utlized black rtv along pan, end seals are rubber i did not put any sealant on the rubber pieces ( not necessary according to haines manual...)

HOWEVER

i still have a bad leak right at the front of the oil pan gasket where it meets the harmonic balancer,

How do i know if this is a front main oil leak/ crankshaft oil seal leak ?

Don't want to take it all apart just to realize it's the oil pan gasket.

Thanks!
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:08 AM
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If the crankshaft seal is leaking. The problem maybe with the crankshaft walking and pushing the seal out and cause a leak. Dodge has had the same type of problem with the 1991 thru 1994 3.3L engine and later with the 2.4L engines.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:45 PM
GQ-ROD GQ-ROD is offline
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Thanks for the help! i'm going to get a dye and uv light, it leaks steadily while the engine is running, which is why i thought of the crankshaft seal.

I was going to make my own gasket since the one piece is not avail even from the dealer, and the fel pro leaves a lot to be desired.

The black rtv did seem to do a good job of sealing by itself on the sides of the pan it was dry, the rubber end pieces however aren't cutting it since i saw a leak from the rear ( not the rear main seal ) at the pan.

My concern is that if i use rtv on both sides of the rubber end pieces would it seal or would it just be overkill and still leak???

I'll keep you updated i'll be checking the crankshaft seal in a couple of days.

Thanks again!!!
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:36 PM
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Got the dye and UV penlight flashlight,poured it in the crankcase

Warmed up the car,

From what i can tell it looks like it's only leaking from the rubber end pieces on the oil pan gasket,

Took the front tire and lower engine shroud cover off to reveal the front pulley,

it looks as if someone already got to it, because the metal was pryed back as if to make room to get a socket in there,

there really is NO room to get a socket or impact in there as the crankshaft bolt is up higher than the body.

I did notice that the timing belt from the top is dry, the only way now to know for sure is to somehow get the front pulley off and throw the UV light on it to see if it's leaking from the crankshaft seal.

I did not see any oil leaking from the lower sides or bottom of the lower timing belt cover or on the back of the pulley only a small steady stream from the top of the oil pan trickling down.

The only tangent is that the pulley has 4 bolts as well as 2 screws for the inner pulley that have to come off, lord only knows if the screws will come out let alone if i could even get enough space to put a screwdriver in there.

In the meantime bought the " Right Suff " gasket maker, it's supposed to be much better than regualar permatiex black silicone gasket maker.

I'll take the pan down clean it up and re-do everything, i'll keep you posted on the progress.
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Old 01-24-2012, 03:49 PM
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WOW what a HOT MESS !

Looks like i spoke to soon, i waited until it got dark, shined the uv light on the engine and saw TONS of oil leaking,

Removed the top timing cover and the timing belt is swimming in oil.

Oil leak detection Dye is your BEST FRIEND in pinpointing leaks.

Soooooooooo, spent the morning cutting into the lower body of the car with a sawzall, cobalt drill bits,and a grinding wheel

( don't shoot me, i'll be fabricating a 1/16th inch cover plate along the cut,welding it and sealing it, this way future work can be easily done with the access hole i've provided, the plastic cover will still cover it nicely though, pics coming soon ) it aint pretty but gave me enough room to get to the crankshaft bolt.

Locked the flywheel safely using a 14 mm wrench on one of the torque converter bolts attached to the flywheel and lodged it against a 14mm bolt that holds the cover plate plate on. SAFE way to do it without an expensive tool and no risk of broken flywheel teeth doing it with a crowbar and you don't need another person to hold the prybar.

Got the crankshaft bolt off with 1/2 inch rachet extensions and 2 foot rachet, supported on a jack stand for leverage, it came off a little TOO EASY, must not have been torqued properly.

Got the belts off,

Got the crank and water pump pulleys off,

timing cover top and bottom off,

and wow lots of oil EVERYWHERE !

So I'll be replacing both the camshaft and crankshaft seals with factory seals soon.

The end seals on the pan were also leaking slightly but not enough to justify this much oil, i'll keep you posted.
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:03 PM
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Default Update

Got the the cam sprocket off, it seems once again who ever worked on this car overtightened the cam sprocket bolt.

Had to fabricate a make shift cam sprocket holder out of square steel tubing, drilled 2 holes, put 2 2" x 1/4" thick bolts through it to the sprocket to hold it while i removed the cam bolt. ( pics to follow )

What do i see when i take off the cam sprocket?

Wow the camshaft seal had already worked it's way loose, it was out of the seat and just hanging onto the camshaft end.

The camshaft seal was slightly pliable but when you bend it you could see dry rot cracks

The crankshaft seal was hard and so brittle it broke in my hand.

For an extra $20.00 depending on model do yourselve's a favor and when replacing a timing belt do everything, it's cheap insurance against this kind of problem.

So, installed the new seals again with homemade seal drivers being very careful to seat the seals flush with the seats, lubed the inside and outside of each seal with clean motor oil.

Now they fit very very snug.

Put the timing belt back on made sure timing marks aligned, will have to manually rotate engine 2 times to ensure they line up correctly,

Will replace the pcv valve too just want to make sure crankcase pressure does not get too high to put too much pressure on the new seals.

Will have to wait for the lower and upper timing cover seals to arrive, couldn't find them locally not even at the dealer.

Now it's onto removing the pil pan and resealing it as i can see 2 oil leaks coming from the fel pro rubber end seals before i install the pulleys this gives me enough room to remove the oil pan without taking apart the exhaust piping again.
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Last edited by GQ-ROD; 01-25-2012 at 03:17 PM..
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by master tech View Post
If the crankshaft seal is leaking.The problem maybe with the crankshaft walking and pushing the seal out and cause a leak. Dodge has had the same type of problem with the 1991 thru 1994 3.3L engine and later with the 2.4L engines.
Thank you for steering me in the right direction, replaced both the cam and crankshft seals, tested it and NO LEAKS now,

It's the first time i've done this so it was good to know what to look for.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:40 AM
 
 
 
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