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Switching over from 5w30 to 10w30

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Old 03-29-2012, 05:00 PM
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Default Switching over from 5w30 to 10w30

Question? Had a recommendation the other day to switch my Caravan 3.3L 2004 (115,000KM) from synthetic Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 to 10w30 since it was a higher mileage vehicle? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers.
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Old 03-29-2012, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jkimchi View Post
Question? Had a recommendation the other day to switch my Caravan 3.3L 2004 (115,000KM) from synthetic Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 to 10w30 since it was a higher mileage vehicle? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers.
Firstly, 10W-30 should work just fine. My vehicles will be running 10W-30 ths summer per usual and likely next winter as well.

Secondly, check out Pennzoil synthetic and you will likely find it is made from Group lll Base Stock, ie not synthetic at all but a petroleum product. There are very few "synthetic" synthetics out there and the oil companies love to confuse the Customer - it's scandelous.
The German Castrol 0W-30 is the only true synthetic oil in Castrol's line up for example. I don't believe Pennzoil has any unless it's an European formula. Amsoil is an actual synthetic but expensive.

Conventional oil does the job very well and at least one knows what they are getting for the price.

There is a tendency to go to a little thicker oil as the miles build up and energy efficiency isn't being harped on. I would use the 10W-30 without hesitation. That's a pretty regular diet for my vehicles except during cold winter months. 5W is really only 5W when cold.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:28 PM
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I have never gone from 5w to 10w oil just because the engine had 100,000 miles on it, in fact I have never bought into the BS that you need to use the high mileage oil they sell now days once your engine has more then 75,000 miles. FYI many people use the same oil the manufactured called for over 200,000 miles and not have any problems or the need to change from 5w to 10w oil. IMHO many of theses new high mileage oils are away to get more $$$ out of your pocket.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DBLR View Post
I have never gone from 5w to 10w oil just because the engine had 100,000 miles on it, in fact I have never bought into the BS that you need to use the high mileage oil they sell now days once your engine has more then 75,000 miles. FYI many people use the same oil the manufactured called for over 200,000 miles and not have any problems or the need to change from 5w to 10w oil. IMHO many of theses new high mileage oils are away to get more $$$ out of your pocket.
Engine oil is an elusive topic. The oil companies don't help with their "high mileage" oil and "synthetic wannabes" marketing. Conventional oils are fine for normal oil changes. Only way to get rid of the contaminants floating around in the oil is via an oil change. Filters only filter out so much and some filters don't do a very good job of that with efficiencies in the 80% to 90% range. A premium filter should be 95%+ efficient

From Owner Manuals:
- for my 6 cylinder 4.0L in-line Jeep engine, 10W-30 is "preferred" and 5W-30 is to be used below 0F (-18C)
- for a 2004 Caravan, 5W-30 is "preferred" and 10W-30 can be used above 0F (-18C)
- for the Chrysler 4.0L V6 used in the newer vans (2008 to 2010), 10W-30 is the only choice. No alternatives, not even for cold weather.

Perhaps as the engine gets bigger, the tendency is toward heavier oil - makes sense.

I think the oil to beware of is the 5W-20 grade as not being heavy enough, especially for the 3.8L. Here's what SynLube says about 5W-20 oil:
Quote:
You get about 1% better fuel economy, but you get 30% shorter engine life!

The above statement is based on real life experience and is comparison to SAE 5W-30 Motor Oil.
http://www.synlube.com/sae5w-20.htm
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:51 PM
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I have never heard about the increased wear associated to 5W20 oil before. I've always been vigilant on the oil changes but my van has always had the 5W20 (synthetic more recently). I wonder if most owners are running the 5W30 these days...?
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:57 PM
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10w30 is just fine.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:42 PM
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Based on personal experience with 5w20 oil and how badly the Dodge 3.7 V6 in our Nitro could shear oil, 5w30 oil does not hold up better then 5w20 and from what I've been told by several Dodge mechanics at difference dealerships using 5w30 oil instead of 5w20 allows sludge to build up, sludge reduces oil flow & low oil flow harms the engine. IMHO anytime an engine requires the usage of 5w20 oil its best to use high quality synthetic oil..

Now back to 5w30 V 10w30 subject, I have yet to see Proof that because an engine has 100K or more miles you need to or have to change from 5w to 10w oil.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:25 PM
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Haven't seen any 0W-10 or 5W-15 motor oil yet so there must be a lower limit to the second number. I think 20 is borderline, maybe too low for some engines, especially the bigger torque engines. The following should know something about motor oil:
1. Amsoil @ http://www.worldsbestoil.ca/which-30-weight-oil.php

Quote:
AMSOIL 0W30 is 57.3 cST @ 40 C, & 11.3 cST @ 100 C

AMSOIL 5W30 is 59.5 cST @ 40 C, & 11.7 cST @ 100 C

AMSOIL 10W30 is 66.1 cST @ 40 C, & 11.7 cST @ 100 C
As you can see from the data above the kinematic viscosities are extremely close. Therefore, whether you use the 0W-30, 5W-30 or the 10W-30 is strictly a matter of choice. With the small differences in kinematic viscosity you would be hard-pressed to detect these differences on initial engine start-up without specialized engine test equipment.

All three oils are excellent motor oils and ANY one can be used in a vehicle which requires either a 0W-30, 5W-30 or 10W-30 oil as well as in several other engine applications including an engine which recommends a 5W- 20 oil.
2. Blackstone Labs @ http://www.blackstone-labs.com/oil-viscosity.php

Quote:
Which Viscosity to Use?
Engine owners often stray from manufacturers' recommendations regarding viscosity of oils. The engine builders dyno-test their engines using a specific viscosity oil, so when you use the viscosity they recommend, you are working with a known result. Going to another viscosity is an experiment, but it's usually a harmless one. For the sake of efficiency you want to run the lightest grade oil in your engine possible, within limits. We are seeing that trend for newer engines, for which the recommended grade is getting progressively lighter. The common 10W/30 has become a 5W/30, and some manufacturers even recommend 5W/20 oil. On the other hand, we can't see (in oil analysis) where it hurts anything to run heavier 10W/30s or even 10W/40s in modern automotive engines. The heavier oils provide more bearing film, and that's important at the lower end. If your oil is too light, the bearing metals can increase. If the oil is too heavy, the upper end metals can increase. The trick is to find the right viscosity for your particular engine, which is why we suggest following the manufacturer's recommendation.
3. Many European cars spec an xW-40 oil, not just cars built in Europe but cars that are imported into Europe.

4. Mobil 1 Extended Life 10W-60 @ http://www.mobil.co.uk/UK-English-LC...fe-10w60.aspx#
Quote:
Mobil 1 Extended Life 10W-60 is engineered to help provide long lasting protection in higher mileage engines so you can get long life out of your vehicle.
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:43 PM
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Arrow Go 0W-20!

I personally wouldn't base my motor oil grade selection on the advise of who knows who?

Instead base it on Used Oil Analysis (UOA). Get your 5W-30 tested, if the wear is within normal tolerance, stay with it. In fact, the 10W-30 could lead to more start-up wear. Don't believe it? How will you know unless you trend against some consecutive UOAs? Answer, you won't know until you do.

Okay, now that I said not to take someone's advice, consider this. After you trend a few UOAs with your 5W-30 and discover it's fine, now try running 0W-20 with subsequent UOAs. Chances are, your wear will remain the same. Don't believe it? How will you know unless you trend against some consecutive UOAs? Answer, you won't know until you do.

Now, with 0W-20 you're getting optimum fuel economy. Not a ton tank-to-tank, but at the end the year take the wife to Red Lobster ;-)
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Old 04-05-2012, 08:29 PM
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Maybe buy the lobster and cook it at home.
Quote:
5W-20 - Should you use it in your vehicle? The answer is simple:
You get about 1% better fuel economy, but you get 30% shorter engine life!

The above statement is based on real life experience and is comparison to SAE 5W-30 Motor Oil.
http://www.synlube.com/sae5w-20.htm
Quote:
The ideal oil viscosity for motor oil used in conventional piston engine operating at the "normal" engine operating temperature is equivalent to SAE 30. (In range of 9 cSt to 12 cSt @ 100 C)

If you use thinner oil (SAE 20) under these "normal" operating conditions there will be LESS resistance to motion due to reduced viscosity, and therefore BETTER Fuel Economy will result.
This gain in fuel economy does not however occur without costs.
- Increase in oil consumption due to lower viscosity. Can be offset by better seals (they cost more)
- Increase in oil consumption due to higher volatility. Can be offset by synthetics (they cost more)
- Decrease in Engine service life due to increased boundary wear under some operating conditions (this will cost more per mile driven or per engine operating hour)

If you use thicker oil (SAE 40 or SAE 50) under these "normal" operating conditions there will be MORE resistance to motion due to increased viscosity, and therefore WORSE Fuel Economy will result. This LOSS in Fuel Economy is somewhat compensated for by:
- Decrease in oil consumption due to higher viscosity.
- Decrease in oil consumption due to lower volatility
- Increase in Engine service life due to reduced boundary wear and better separation of parts in relative motion.
http://www.synlube.com/sae5w-20.htm
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJeepman View Post
Maybe buy the lobster and cook it at home.
Quote:
5W-20 - Should you use it in your vehicle? The answer is simple:
You get about 1% better fuel economy, but you get 30% shorter engine life!

The above statement is based on real life experience and is comparison to SAE 5W-30 Motor Oil.
http://www.synlube.com/sae5w-20.htm
Quote:
The ideal oil viscosity for motor oil used in conventional piston engine operating at the "normal" engine operating temperature is equivalent to SAE 30. (In range of 9 cSt to 12 cSt @ 100 C)

If you use thinner oil (SAE 20) under these "normal" operating conditions there will be LESS resistance to motion due to reduced viscosity, and therefore BETTER Fuel Economy will result.
This gain in fuel economy does not however occur without costs.
- Increase in oil consumption due to lower viscosity. Can be offset by better seals (they cost more)
- Increase in oil consumption due to higher volatility. Can be offset by synthetics (they cost more)
- Decrease in Engine service life due to increased boundary wear under some operating conditions (this will cost more per mile driven or per engine operating hour)

If you use thicker oil (SAE 40 or SAE 50) under these "normal" operating conditions there will be MORE resistance to motion due to increased viscosity, and therefore WORSE Fuel Economy will result. This LOSS in Fuel Economy is somewhat compensated for by:
- Decrease in oil consumption due to higher viscosity.
- Decrease in oil consumption due to lower volatility
- Increase in Engine service life due to reduced boundary wear and better separation of parts in relative motion.
http://www.synlube.com/sae5w-20.htm
Right! SynLube. Use their one size fits all 5W-50 motor oil recommendation year-round and change it once every 15-years or every 150,000-miles whichever comes first. And while you're at it, believe everything their fancy website has to say as well.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CompSyn View Post
Right! SynLube. Use their one size fits all 5W-50 motor oil recommendation year-round and change it once every 15-years or every 150,000-miles whichever comes first. And while you're at it, believe everything their fancy website has to say as well.
That made me smile. Pretty hard to believe any of the oil companies. At least SynLube and Amsoil say something and provide backup. Most others provide a pile of fluff. How about the Guy that buys Pennzoil Ultra thinking he has a top notch synthetic oil, only to find out he has paid $ for a top notch oil derived from Group lll Base Stocks (dino), ie that's its roots, the additive package does the rest. The oil companies can't get away with that deception (legal though it may be in North America) in Europe. They are all the same except for Amsoil and SynLube, maybe.

In fairness though, Valvoline bit the bullet and said something back in 2008 @ http://www.jobbersworld.com/December%2011,%202008.htm
Quote:
According to a letter Valvoline marketers received, the result from Valvoline's testing indicate:

Valvoline SynPower's 5W-30 wear performance is at least four times better than Mobil 1 5W-30
Mobil 1 5W-30 does not meet minimum API SM or ILSAC GF-4 specification because of its inferior performance in the Sequence IVA wear test

The letter reportedly goes on to say that Valvoline notified ExxonMobil of the failed test results in September and that the company take appropriate action regarding their claim that Mobil 1 meets ILSAC GF-4 and API SM specifications, or provide substantiation that they in fact meet these specifications.
What did Mobil say? Not much, very quiet for an oil company.

Anyway, I digress. To the OP, fill your boots with 10W-30. That's what I use. 5W-30 has the same viscisity at operating temperature and should perform just as well. The 10W-30 would have less additive to accomodate the viscosity range, hence a little more base oil.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJeepman View Post
That made me smile. Pretty hard to believe any of the oil companies. At least SynLube and Amsoil say something and provide backup.
That's interesting you mention Amsoil. That's my oil of choice in fact. I'm currently running their Group III (OE) oil as it's a great value. I've also used their top tier PAO/Ester 0W-30 Signature Series (SSO) which netted me less valve train noise at cold engine start up. You do get what you pay for when it comes to motor oil. Haven't had a chance to try the new AZO yet.

Well, I did just take delivery of the 2002 GCS I test drove the other day. I do intend to run back to back oil analysis with some different oils to see what Chrysler's old six banger likes best. I'll keep everyone posted.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:43 PM
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This is what SAE has to say about viscosity....

The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has established a numerical code system for grading motor oils according to their viscosity characteristics. SAE viscosity gradings include the following, from low to high viscosity: 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, 50 or 60. The numbers 0, 5, 10, 15 and 25 are suffixed with the letter W, designating their "winter" (not "weight") or cold-start viscosity, at lower temperature. The number 20 comes with or without a W, depending on whether it is being used to denote a cold or hot viscosity grade. The document SAE J300 defines the viscometrics related to these grades.
Kinematic viscosity is graded by measuring the time it takes for a standard amount of oil to flow through a standard orifice, at standard temperatures. The longer it takes, the higher the viscosity and thus higher SAE code.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:21 AM
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Default Some sharp guys here

A number of these replies show a high degree of knowledge about motor oils, judging from what I've learned about oils in doing quite a bit of research.
My comment is that you should be as well off with either 5W-30 or 10W-30 if you assume the 30 weight is maintained over the life of an oil change, with 5W-30 giving an advantage in quick flow at startup. I don't think you'll find much assurance from any mfr that the 30wt designation won't shear down--that's a mechanical shearing of the molecules as the oil is massaged by moving parts, such that the larger ones are destroyed over time, leaving you with a lighter oil (i.e., 30 wt becomes 20 wt or less). It's the one good reason I see for frequent oil changes.
And it's true that 90% of the synthetic oils come from class III basestocks rather than being chemically produced like Amsoil, Redline, the top Mobil 1 oil, and a few others. I used to use Amsoil, but it just got too expensive, so I now use a synthetic that may or may not come partially from Class III oils. If you're curious, I use 5W-30 Schaeffer 9000 because I like the fact it contains a healthy dose of moly.

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Old 10-11-2012, 08:21 AM
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More important to change your oil regularly than nitpick weights/brands. I stick to whatever synthetics that are on sale and whether or not they are true synthetics really bears little in my decision. All I care is that I get the better grades of oil and even regular oil is well overpriced in Canada so I'm paying maybe $5-10 more for synthetic over advertised conventional.

PS: I use 10W30 in my 02 for that little extra protection (even if it is mostly in my head) since I tow alot and when I do tow it tends to be a big payload.
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Old Yesterday, 04:41 PM
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If you're burning oil, try the 10w30. These engines were originally designed to run on 10w30, but Chrysler changed the recommendation to increase US fuel economy numbers by a small hair - even though they were still recommending 10w30 for these same engines in Europe. You will have more engine wear and burn oil with 5w20 for that tiny economy increase. Use some regular 10w30, nothing special, and you will notice that your engine sounds better and no longer burns oil.
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Old Yesterday, 09:56 PM
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I watch bob the oil guy topics a lot. Here is what is typically suggested:

<45F avg. 0w-30
>45F avg. 5w-30
>80F avg. 10w-30

Pennzoil High Mileage with cleaning agents is awesome on these vans and only comes next to Mobil1 stuff in reviews for off-the-shelf oils.. Mobil1 is pricey.. Pennzoil 5qt $18.00 at certain department stores..
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Old Today, 01:31 PM
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Oil shmoil. For the last 45 years I've used whatever viscosity the owners manual says to use while putting well over 200K miles on many of my vehicles resulting in ZERO engine related problems...and no, I don't change it at the asinine 3000 mile edict.
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Old Today, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar41 View Post
Oil shmoil. For the last 45 years I've used whatever viscosity the owners manual says to use while putting well over 200K miles on many of my vehicles resulting in ZERO engine related problems...and no, I don't change it at the asinine 3000 mile edict.

Agree on change cycle I do at least 10k, but I know from experience some oils cause leaks, and 10W+ can cause problem below freezing on start-ups.

If we're going to get geeky, RedLine oil is the only real synthetic and probably the best oil out there as real oil or chemistry guys seem to agree.. It's $50.00 per gallon though..

I'd love to do 20k changes using RedLine or a Group IV oil, but they aren't sold here in NC at any local stores and are expensive.. At the frequency I do changes I'll stick with the cheapest quality oil I can get.

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