Dodge AT4
#41
09-28-2014, 12:55 AM
Mousey,
Thanks for the input. Truck has had a respray, so inserts around headlight probably going to be misleading. I can say that although the original paint code is almost unreadable, the word "Balm" appears, again, another paint manufacturer possibly gone by the wayside.
As for the Novak site, already have a copy of that post, unfortunately it can be described as "patchy" at best, gives very little information. Maybe the only way to find out for sure is to remove the engine/gearbox (owner wants to hang onto the engine) and rip the shift tower off it. Lot of work to find out that it is possibly not the one with the wanted ratios.
Cheers, Dave.
Thanks for the input. Truck has had a respray, so inserts around headlight probably going to be misleading. I can say that although the original paint code is almost unreadable, the word "Balm" appears, again, another paint manufacturer possibly gone by the wayside.
As for the Novak site, already have a copy of that post, unfortunately it can be described as "patchy" at best, gives very little information. Maybe the only way to find out for sure is to remove the engine/gearbox (owner wants to hang onto the engine) and rip the shift tower off it. Lot of work to find out that it is possibly not the one with the wanted ratios.
Cheers, Dave.
#42
02-16-2016, 06:06 PM
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At4 4X4
I know this thread was posted ages ago but my reply might help anyone else who needs to figure out what the model numbers mean on Dodge AT4. Well firstly AT4 stands for Australian Truck Series 4, much the same way as an AP2, AP5 etc stands for "Australian Production" chryslers e.g aussie chrysler royal (AP2) and aussie chrysler valiants (AP5 AP6).
Ok, the model numbers are as follows. Your example Dodge AT4 329 , the 329 - first digit tonnage, second and third are wheelbase + 100"......i.e 3 tonner with 129" wheelbase. Another example, Dodge AT4 575 is a 5 tonner with 175" wheelbase, AT4 114 is a 1 tonner with 114" wheelbase. Commers used a similar system.
For models from 460 up, AT4-460 for example would indicate a V8 engine and AT4-460-6 would indicate it was a 6 cylinder version.
From this we can deduce that an AT4 690 is a 6 tonner with a 190" wheelbase (and V8 engine). Also, an AT4 760D would indicate a 7 tonner, 160" wheelbase and Diesel engine (D for diesel).
The 225 slant six engine was available from 1962 and was replaced by the Hemi 245 in 1970 and used in AT4 114, 129, 229, 329, 353, 460-6, 475-6, 560-6, 575-6.
The 313 V8 Poly engine was used from 1962 to 1964 and replaced in 1965 by the 318 V8. V8 engines were used in AT4-460, 475, 560, 575, 660, 675, 690.
The Perkins 6.354 (6 cyl 354 cid Diesel) was available as an option on AT4 660, 675, 690.
The 361 V8 and Cummins 160 (6 cyl 464 cid 160HP diesel) were only available in AT4 760 and 775
This info came from an AT4 parts catalogue with model identification that was kindly sent to me. Production of the AT4 ran from 1962 to about 1972 when replaced by the single headlight D5N... D5N i think simply stands for Dodge series 5, N-normal control (bonnetted truck). The D2F was the dodge version of the Commer after chrysler took over Rootes Group (series 2, F- Forward control)...and these were available with 361 V8 and Cummins 185 (470 cid V8 diesel)...but we digress! hehe. The D might have also coincided with the D series internationals as dodge and inter shared the same cabs and were built at the chrysler factory at South Australia from 1962 onwards as has been mentioned in other posts.
I'm actually in the process of producing models of the AT4 series in kit form in 1/43rd scale. They will be of the AT4 560-6 as a 6 cyl (225 cid) table top and AT4 775 (361 V8) single drive prime mover (a common configuration for these). Prime movers had shortened wheelbases.
Hope this info helps. I'm also researching paint codes for the AT4 so that the models can be painted in authentic original or fleet colours, so if anyone has any info please post them, especially the aussie code for Dodge truck Red.
The codes i have so far are :
8623 - white
7239 - green/aqua
13211 - a fleet colour, i think it was telecom orange?
5259 - Dodge Truck Green
7238 - ?
Mousey
Ok, the model numbers are as follows. Your example Dodge AT4 329 , the 329 - first digit tonnage, second and third are wheelbase + 100"......i.e 3 tonner with 129" wheelbase. Another example, Dodge AT4 575 is a 5 tonner with 175" wheelbase, AT4 114 is a 1 tonner with 114" wheelbase. Commers used a similar system.
For models from 460 up, AT4-460 for example would indicate a V8 engine and AT4-460-6 would indicate it was a 6 cylinder version.
From this we can deduce that an AT4 690 is a 6 tonner with a 190" wheelbase (and V8 engine). Also, an AT4 760D would indicate a 7 tonner, 160" wheelbase and Diesel engine (D for diesel).
The 225 slant six engine was available from 1962 and was replaced by the Hemi 245 in 1970 and used in AT4 114, 129, 229, 329, 353, 460-6, 475-6, 560-6, 575-6.
The 313 V8 Poly engine was used from 1962 to 1964 and replaced in 1965 by the 318 V8. V8 engines were used in AT4-460, 475, 560, 575, 660, 675, 690.
The Perkins 6.354 (6 cyl 354 cid Diesel) was available as an option on AT4 660, 675, 690.
The 361 V8 and Cummins 160 (6 cyl 464 cid 160HP diesel) were only available in AT4 760 and 775
This info came from an AT4 parts catalogue with model identification that was kindly sent to me. Production of the AT4 ran from 1962 to about 1972 when replaced by the single headlight D5N... D5N i think simply stands for Dodge series 5, N-normal control (bonnetted truck). The D2F was the dodge version of the Commer after chrysler took over Rootes Group (series 2, F- Forward control)...and these were available with 361 V8 and Cummins 185 (470 cid V8 diesel)...but we digress! hehe. The D might have also coincided with the D series internationals as dodge and inter shared the same cabs and were built at the chrysler factory at South Australia from 1962 onwards as has been mentioned in other posts.
I'm actually in the process of producing models of the AT4 series in kit form in 1/43rd scale. They will be of the AT4 560-6 as a 6 cyl (225 cid) table top and AT4 775 (361 V8) single drive prime mover (a common configuration for these). Prime movers had shortened wheelbases.
Hope this info helps. I'm also researching paint codes for the AT4 so that the models can be painted in authentic original or fleet colours, so if anyone has any info please post them, especially the aussie code for Dodge truck Red.
The codes i have so far are :
8623 - white
7239 - green/aqua
13211 - a fleet colour, i think it was telecom orange?
5259 - Dodge Truck Green
7238 - ?
Mousey
Hi Mousey,
I was just wondering if you have any knowledge around the 4x4 running gear under my AT4. I have been told it is International Harvester in origin - do you, or anybody else, have any details on this 'set up'??
Cheer,
Richo
#43
02-17-2016, 04:14 PM
AT4 Components
Richo,
Think you will find that like a lot of these similar type jiggers, major components are made by firms who specialise. For instance, New Process (taken over by Chrysler later years) made transmissions for Inter, Dodge, G.M. Ford and many others, Dana-Spicer did the same thing with their diffs and transfer cases, so although for instance Inter may call THEIR version of the ubiquitous NP435, the T17 or some similar number, it is in reality a New Process. Then they complicated the issue by making subtle changes, things like bolt hole patterns, input/output shaft dimensions and lengths, that's why a lot of it are NOT interchangeable without some modification.
What I've seen of their transfer cases, Inter seemed to use a few versions of the "island" or "divorced" T/C (separated from the main transmission by a short 'jack'shaft, NP205/207 etc). Which doesn't mean to say they can't be utilised in a Dodge if making a 4X4. As long as you have adequate length in your driveline, you should be OK.
If you can get a decent look at the transmission/T.Case in question, it will have casting numbers in raised letters/numbers, with luck maybe even an original tag somewhere. If you have that you go a long way to positively identify the make, model, year of the unit in question.
Hope that helps a bit, Cheers.
Dave
Think you will find that like a lot of these similar type jiggers, major components are made by firms who specialise. For instance, New Process (taken over by Chrysler later years) made transmissions for Inter, Dodge, G.M. Ford and many others, Dana-Spicer did the same thing with their diffs and transfer cases, so although for instance Inter may call THEIR version of the ubiquitous NP435, the T17 or some similar number, it is in reality a New Process. Then they complicated the issue by making subtle changes, things like bolt hole patterns, input/output shaft dimensions and lengths, that's why a lot of it are NOT interchangeable without some modification.
What I've seen of their transfer cases, Inter seemed to use a few versions of the "island" or "divorced" T/C (separated from the main transmission by a short 'jack'shaft, NP205/207 etc). Which doesn't mean to say they can't be utilised in a Dodge if making a 4X4. As long as you have adequate length in your driveline, you should be OK.
If you can get a decent look at the transmission/T.Case in question, it will have casting numbers in raised letters/numbers, with luck maybe even an original tag somewhere. If you have that you go a long way to positively identify the make, model, year of the unit in question.
Hope that helps a bit, Cheers.
Dave
#44
02-18-2016, 04:42 AM
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#45
02-18-2016, 08:38 AM
Identifying transmissions
Richo,
Somewhere among all the paraphernalia I have here is a couple of pages of both transmission and T/C matter, gives a brief description of each one and its upside and downsides. I reckon I know where it is. If you can take a phone photo or have a small camera, try and get a shot of the units in question. I am thinking along the lines of your AT4 having the common NP435 4 speed (low 6.68:1 non synchro first gear) which was the common box for them, there is a slim chance it MAY be an earlier NP420, casting numbers if you can get to them will help a bit. The NP435 will have an alloy lid on it where the selector/gearshift fits on top (providing you can get to it without dismantling the floor!) held on by 8 bolts. On the top of the actual alloy top, it will have what looks like a clock, you'll have to clean some crud away, inside the clock should be two numbers, say 64 which means the box was manufactured in 1964 again, there should be a "NP" casting in the alloy as well. You didn't say what year model yours is, could have the handbrake drum on the back of the main transmission, or cables could go to rear wheels as in most cars. When it comes to the transfer case identification, gets a bit trickier. But again, casting numbers or any tags SHOULD help identify it. Forget the link to International (unless it's been a retro fit) as Inter often had their own numbers stamped in. Again, there are several different models that were used when it came to T/C's. Most common would probably be the NP205/207, both excellent transfer cases, equally as strong as the Dana-Spicer 20's and 300's. Shoot me a personal message and/or a couple of photo's if you can get them and I'll try and cross reference them with the parts sheets I have. If your'e thinking along the lines of rebuilding either/or, parts are still around but getting harder to source all the time, last housing I got had to come from the states, it was a Dana input housing. But these units were pretty near bulletproof unless you were doing something totally ridiculous with them, so if it's going OK and not making horrible grinding noises, change the oil and leave it alone! I forget the actual gear ratios in the T/C's, but it will be in the parts book I reckon, hi will be 1:1 or direct, low will be something like either 1.95:1 or up to 2.68 or 2.86:1. I have heard of blokes tinkering with the ratios, but once you start getting gears cut and having to grind out areas inside the main cases, it can and will become hellaciously expensive. If it's alive, keep it so!
Just as a thought, and this would only be if you wanted to alter ratios for some weird reason, being a 'divorced' or 'island' box what a few blokes do is simply change the main box from a 4 speed direct to a five speed overdrive, cuts the revs down a bit but still retain a passable road speed. I did this with an old CJ6 Jeep, turfed the 4 speed out and dropped in a 5 speed Toyota Dyna overdrive box, behind a Rambler 343 V8, went like the clappers, but you could take off from a standing start in THIRD gear! But, I was young and stupid 20-25 years ago, now I'm just OLD and stupid. Must be, still tinkering!
Cheers, Dave64
Somewhere among all the paraphernalia I have here is a couple of pages of both transmission and T/C matter, gives a brief description of each one and its upside and downsides. I reckon I know where it is. If you can take a phone photo or have a small camera, try and get a shot of the units in question. I am thinking along the lines of your AT4 having the common NP435 4 speed (low 6.68:1 non synchro first gear) which was the common box for them, there is a slim chance it MAY be an earlier NP420, casting numbers if you can get to them will help a bit. The NP435 will have an alloy lid on it where the selector/gearshift fits on top (providing you can get to it without dismantling the floor!) held on by 8 bolts. On the top of the actual alloy top, it will have what looks like a clock, you'll have to clean some crud away, inside the clock should be two numbers, say 64 which means the box was manufactured in 1964 again, there should be a "NP" casting in the alloy as well. You didn't say what year model yours is, could have the handbrake drum on the back of the main transmission, or cables could go to rear wheels as in most cars. When it comes to the transfer case identification, gets a bit trickier. But again, casting numbers or any tags SHOULD help identify it. Forget the link to International (unless it's been a retro fit) as Inter often had their own numbers stamped in. Again, there are several different models that were used when it came to T/C's. Most common would probably be the NP205/207, both excellent transfer cases, equally as strong as the Dana-Spicer 20's and 300's. Shoot me a personal message and/or a couple of photo's if you can get them and I'll try and cross reference them with the parts sheets I have. If your'e thinking along the lines of rebuilding either/or, parts are still around but getting harder to source all the time, last housing I got had to come from the states, it was a Dana input housing. But these units were pretty near bulletproof unless you were doing something totally ridiculous with them, so if it's going OK and not making horrible grinding noises, change the oil and leave it alone! I forget the actual gear ratios in the T/C's, but it will be in the parts book I reckon, hi will be 1:1 or direct, low will be something like either 1.95:1 or up to 2.68 or 2.86:1. I have heard of blokes tinkering with the ratios, but once you start getting gears cut and having to grind out areas inside the main cases, it can and will become hellaciously expensive. If it's alive, keep it so!
Just as a thought, and this would only be if you wanted to alter ratios for some weird reason, being a 'divorced' or 'island' box what a few blokes do is simply change the main box from a 4 speed direct to a five speed overdrive, cuts the revs down a bit but still retain a passable road speed. I did this with an old CJ6 Jeep, turfed the 4 speed out and dropped in a 5 speed Toyota Dyna overdrive box, behind a Rambler 343 V8, went like the clappers, but you could take off from a standing start in THIRD gear! But, I was young and stupid 20-25 years ago, now I'm just OLD and stupid. Must be, still tinkering!
Cheers, Dave64
#46
02-18-2016, 08:02 PM
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#47
04-17-2018, 01:26 AM
#48
05-15-2018, 07:23 PM
AT4 series interchangeable panels
G'Day, everyone. I am new to this forum so apologies if this question has been asked before. I have recently purchased a Dodge AT4 114 and I am wondering if all the panels are interchangeable across the AT4 Series. In particular, the bonnets i.e. will the bonnet off a 114 fit a larger version like a 329 or a 575 and vice versa.
Cheers
Kurt
Cheers
Kurt
#49
05-16-2018, 08:25 PM
#50
02-16-2019, 04:47 AM
