DodgeForum.com

DodgeForum.com (http://dodgeforum.com/forum/)
-   Dodge/Ram Diesel (http://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-ram-diesel-88/)
-   -   2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare! (http://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-ram-diesel/155666-2007-ram-2500-6-7-l-emmisions-nightmare.html)

AceHank 04-02-2008 09:40 PM

2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
Holy Crapperz!
This stupid idea of an exhaust system is going to kill my turbo. The soot collector amasses soot, plugs up into the turbo, deposits carbon on the shaft and bearings = factory must take it all apart to clean or the turbo comes undone. I want to take the cat off along with the soot collector; let that engine exhale a little. Well...bad idea! It removes the factory warranty on the truck...how weak. Fix a Chrysler problem and they punish the buyer. The recall has already been done on the O2 sensor. Ready for this??? First MIL on dash hit at 752 miles....second at 1380 miles. I had to run the truck real hard to generate enough heat to burn out the soot and get the light to reset. Hard on new engine, hard on gas mileage.....unneccesary for the $40k I spent on this awesome truck. Chrysler better figure this out. Our local dealership has had almost ten of these complaints from other owners. Does Chrysler want to really spend this much money on turbos for their precious customers. The third time this Mil comes on, it's going to the shop for a recorded repair....after three our Washington state lemon law comes into play...full refund on the truck. Please help me keep my Dodge! I have been a Dodge man since before my 20's! I really need something of this caliber to pull my big-ass boat.

Answers anyone?

hemiyellow 04-02-2008 10:05 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
call Cummins and complain, not Dodge....we've been working on trying to fix Cummins issues for the last 8 months or longer....they want things done a certain way, which is fine, but when one thing is fixed and we move on to the next item it breaks the item we just fixed....we've got prolly 4 people (including myself) working on trying to find some fixes for Cummins issues like this one your having.....hopefully we'll have a fix out there very soon

there is a new exhaust system being tested for the 6.7 CTD (got it on our fleet truck) that is suppose to deal with this issue, but i'm not aware of it's current progress

Parts/Service 04-02-2008 10:22 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
Timothy, Welcome to the forum. Run your exhaust brake all the time and it will help keep the turbo clean. Even though the particulate filter came on your Dodge doesn't mean that Dodge wanted it on there. The goverment had a hand in making sure all diesels have a filter. They are working on a fix. If your local dealer has only seen "almost ten" of these trucks with this problem, they must not work on many diesels. I have seen alot of these trucks with the same problem and have not had to replace a turbo yet. Not saying that we won't have to. Good luck ....

12valveman 04-02-2008 10:29 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
well ace hate to tell you but it is not a Chrysler or Dodge problem so let that stop there. work at a dealership where we have ford and gm also and same prblems are being encountered. it is not the auto maker that wants to put this crap on but the US government FORCING the auto maker to install this so you and me can breath better. cause believe me do you think they would put something on a truck that is going to cost them money. i think not. i have seen in the shop that the only time we are having problems with the new 6.7 is when people use them as a toy or daily driver and letting them just sit and idle . this is not yhour dads diesel that you are driving it is the diesel of today. get out and work it like a cummins is meant to be worked. if you only tow once in a while get a hemi that will handle the job easily and cost you alot less to get into. too many times i am seeing people buy a diesel just for the LOOK of having a BIG truck to pull a toy around. and that is causing problems with all the manufactures because they need to get up to operating temp and beyond to be efficient and just crusing around will not achieve this. so please do not blame the dodge dealer or dodge themselves they are building a work truck and a damn good one from what i have been seeing if your truely not happy then i believe you should try either a gm or ford and see the problems they are having with the same issue. or give a gas product a try if you would like hope you have good luck with what ever you do thanks

daytona1680 04-02-2008 11:02 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
I agree with the other guys its not dodge or cummins building crap..it is the governtment making them put all this extra stuff on to reduce emissions. I know some people with the new cummins, ford, and chevy/gmc. They all have problems, and its just something your going to have to deal with until the companys figure this stuff out. I personally wouldn't take one of these new diesels if they tried to give me one. When my hemi is paid off I will be looking for an 05 ram with the cummins 600, or an older ram with the 24valve ho cummins, maybe even a 12valve.

Ramman18 04-03-2008 01:47 AM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
And who's making the government make Dodge put this crap on the trucks? Over grown hippy tree huggers. Thank them.

daytona1680 04-03-2008 02:35 AM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: Ramman18

And who's making the government make Dodge put this crap on the trucks? Over grown hippy tree huggers. Thank them.
yep, the same people who wont let us drill our own oil here in the states.

AceHank 04-03-2008 07:08 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
Well...thanks for the insight. Looking forward to the emmissions solution. It's close to boating season again; time to do some long distance hauling. The comment on hauling toys with big truck was great! The boat is just shy of 10,000 lbs w/1000 lb tongue weight. Truck should do just fine.
If you hear of a solution...post if possible.

thnx

firemedic740 04-03-2008 08:14 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
i've got 7100 miles and so far so good. Its a daily driver and hasn't been in for anything yet. I have not heard of anybody around here with problems with there 6.7.

keitholivier 04-04-2008 08:17 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
Guys, I was involved in the development of these systems and the company I work for builds all of them for North America(DPF's for light trucks).

Part of the problem is that the driver is not really informed in a meaningful way of what is going on with the system. The typical worst case scenario is with users who never drive more than a few miles beweeen stops. Or people who drive in stop and go traffic all of their lives. The PCM has no opportunity to regenerate the filter and in the worst cases the oxidation catalyst NEVER gets up to operating temperature. When running cold one not only gets the soot but also sticky organic fractions from incomplete combustion.

If the catalyst or filter gets plugged beyond a certain point, they have to be exchanged since there is no way to recover them on the vehicle.

The reality is that this kind of customer is really only driving a truck of this size for "image" reasons. These customers are the nightmare of any development engineer, itis like buying a Leer Jet just so that you could taxi it up and down the main road but never fly the thing. Of course the OE's have to share the responsibility, since they will sell the truck to anyone withoutmaking operating limitations clear to the prospective customer. However, if you read the users manual, they probably have a lengthy section on operation of the soot filter and some guidelines on proper use of the system. Of course you only read the book after you bought the truck (if ever)...

What is needed is an aftermarket gauge that recieves mass flow data from the can bus as well as back pressure info from the exhaust system. Using both of these values, the gauge would show the relative loading on the filter and it would be clear to the driver that the filter is needing to regenerate and he could keep the engine running to allow the process to complete. It would be easy to see the impact of the regeneration since the pressure will drop rapidly once the regeneration commences.

The final part of the regeneration process takes quite a bit of time, since the carbon burns from the center of the filter outwards radially. It is essential that the process runs to completion or else you will end up with soot in the outermost channels of the soot filter that does not get burnt away. Then, later, after multiple such "partial regenerations" by dumb luck one may get a full regeneration because one may be in a higher load situation like climbing a long hill or towing a trailer or a heavier load. If the larger load of soot in the outer channels now ignites, the intensity of the combustion may be so high that the filter may melt or fracture. Thats the end of the line.

If anyone has more detailed questions, send me a PM. I can't go into all of the detail here on the forum because of confidentiality constraints.
Keith

cumminalong 04-04-2008 08:46 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
Basically, what he is saying is ............

Get that puppy on the highway, either with a load or keep it out of OD so the exhaust temp can build and burn that crud out.

If you're under 20 mph, the vehicle does not go into regeneration mode (AKA Flame Thrower PSD Style).

mikebol 04-04-2008 09:34 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
In my case, I have a big camper to pull around on weekends and vacations which is why I bought the truck. I needed a reliable truck to tow a 10k pound camper but I also use this truck as a daily driver. The "image" of driving a Cummins certainly is a nice added benefit, but not the only reason to buy this truck.

Regarding the new emmissions, the reality is they work perfectly for a narrow segment of the driving population. But even many work trucks that sit and idle have issues with the DPF clogging. How does one get up to speed when working miles from a paved highway? Simply, the design of this emissions system does not accomodate the 80% of the market that has purchased this truck. Therefore, the rest of us need to learn what the system needs and adjust our driving habits accordingly ... or buy a gasser.

Finally, perhaps some testing should have been done in Atlanta where even the interstates are stop and go traffic, 5 lanes of it or more. Even with a load you'd never be able to hit a regen cycle. You'd have to drive OUT of town to get up to speed to cause a regen.

Mike

KenZ 04-04-2008 11:22 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
Back in the old days, we'd take the old car out on the freeway late one night and "burn the gunk out" so to speak. Sounds like its come full circle. Might be kinda hard explaining to the officer the need to run 100 mph for 10 miles to clean out the filter.:D Of coarse there is another way to do it.[sm=burnout.gif]

keitholivier 04-04-2008 11:22 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
It is hardly possible to get the exhaust gas hot enough to burn off the soot on the filter, all that is needed it to get the oxidation catalyst up to 600F. Once at that temperature, the PCM will inject additional fuel during the exhaust stroke, basically releasing unburnt hydrocarbons into the exhaust. These hydrocarbons react with the platinum / paladium on the catalyst and ignite. This creates an exothermic reaction. The PCM tracks the exothermic reaction to maintain an exit temperature of the catalyst in the 1100F range. This is hot enough to get the soot on the filter burning. Think about what it takes to ignite anthracite coal. This is the same deal.

The flaw in this whole discussion is that one absolutely has to get the exhaust temperature up high enough for the catalyst to "lite off", which is the 600F number. If this condition is met reliably under driving conditions, you have no problem. If not, you have trouble coming. The cummins is a powerful engine and it does take a certain load and time to get the system hot enough. If you drive only a few miles, this will not work. If the system is to work for everyone, there would have to be electrical heaters in the emissions system to maintain the temperature high enough under any conditions. To provide the required power, would require a much bigger battery and alternator and add a lot of cost.

The right answer to all of this is simply a smaller diesel of maybe 3.5l swept volume which would be more than enough motor for the needs of 80% of the buyers. Unfortunately, the fact that fuel was just over $1/gal just a few years ago resulted in there being no demand for smaller motors since buyers expected their 6000lb trucks to drive like dragsters and they could afford to fill the tanks with that cheap fuel. Now everyone is tripping over each other playing catchup and the smaller motors will only hit the market in 2010. From that point on consumers will have a lot more choice than they do now.

AceHank 04-05-2008 12:01 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
This forum has become very educational for me...thank you Keith. I would agree to some extent about the buyers "image" concern. I see buyers excited about our 6.7 l. engine...the great horse power, quiet operation, low emmisions and of course, Cummins reliability and reputation. That's why I drive a Dodge. What is the best way to get a complete regen accomplished without hooking up the boat? It's my daily driver to work....no hills to pull. I have periodically been dropping down to 3rd-4th gear on the highway, higher rpms for several miles at a time.

Lemme know...

acroyer 04-05-2008 12:19 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
Bro, you know we both love our DODGE trucks, but I won't lie......they are not the best when it comes to dependability. My engine light came on after just 50000 miles and turns out its 4 sensors I have to replace for a grand total of about 1500 bucks.

I mean come on, 50000 miles. Still I just can't love any other truck besides my RAM, no truck looks as tough as ours do. I guess next time I won't buy DODGE though :(. I will probably buy a Toyota Tundra or something dependable.

Chuck

rojmarti 04-05-2008 01:45 PM

RE: 2007 Ram 2500 6.7 l. emmisions nightmare!
 
What about Fuel? emissions are controlled by the fuel content? Seeing that Bio is or has different properties does this not affect the sludge? or seeing that your rig is new does it control sensors in the fuel system that can cause false readings in the sensors controling the turbo?


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:26 AM.