NOW, if they increase the engine thrust to a point it is more forceful than the belt in the opposite direction, and the aircraft is able to gain enough speed, then yes, it can take off. That would be the equivalent of me running faster than my treadmill and going off the front.
Common misconception infact. See, you could not do that, because your legs have a maximum speed.... Airplane wheels do not. Get over the thought that wheels govern the speed of an airplane, wheels are merely baerings, and save for spinning them to some amazing speed at which they will overheat and seize or putting a block infront of them, nothing can be done beneith the wheels that could possibly stop forward motion of the airplane.
Very simple principle, look closely, examine each of the following words..... BECAUSE THE MOVEMENT OF THE AIRPLANE IS NOT GOVERNED BY THE GROUND, FORWARD MOTION IS GUARANTEED, FORWARD MOTION ENABLES AIR MOVEMENT OVER THE WINGS, AIR MOVENT OVER THE WINGS ENABLES LIFT.
This whole thing is just a mess of wording. If they started a planes engine on a belt going X mph in one direction, they could set the engine at a level that the plane WILL sit still. It depends on the size of the plane obviously, but there is force needed to overcome the friction of the tires, bearings, etc. The heavier the plane, the more force is needed. Say a belt is going 30 mph in one direction. The level of force necessary to keep the plane still is not the same level of force necessary to get the plane going 30 mph on regular ground (not a belt), it is less. But they can match it up. Like i said, it is possible to increase the level so that it can over come the belt going in the opposite direction - i never said it would take "twice" the force so that it goes forward 30mph - it would take the normal force, plus the force to overcome the belt moving, which is less than twice the force.
Or are you trying to say if a plane is on a moving belt it would not move because the wheels are in "neutral"?
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Location: Alamosa, Colorado (200 yards from the Rio Grande)
Posts: 21,594
RE: finally they will put an end to this
If you go back to the "Straight Dope's" article on this in 2006, you'll find the answer depends very much on how the question is worded...
Dusty
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Location: Alamosa, Colorado (200 yards from the Rio Grande)
Posts: 21,594
RE: finally they will put an end to this
"Engines" don't move air over the wings, forward motion provided by the air screw effect of the propellers or the jets does by moving the body of the aircraft forward regardless of what it is standing/floating on.....
Dusty
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But thats not the way they are going to test it. They are going to put a small prop plane on a large tarp and pull it in one direction via truck while the plane is facing in the other direction, the pilot is ONLY going to give the plane enough forward motion to counter-act the friction of the tarp and the wheels to remain in the same spot. The plane will not take off.
So they're not even testing the right myth, this episode will be absolutely pointless. The whole idea of the original question was that the plane was trying to take off, not trying to sit still... [:@]
A plane trying to take off WILL achieve flight, the way they're testing it obviously not. Good job on MythBuster's part there...
This is obviously dumb...its all about how its worded and what they try to do. If they try to stay in one place, no problem. Want to take off? No problem.... If they put it on full power and try to take off, they won't be able to find a treadmill (essentially that's what it is)that can run in the opposite direction fast enough to counteract the thrust...
Just dumb. I'll still probably watch it in reruns though...
Location: Alamosa, Colorado (200 yards from the Rio Grande)
Posts: 21,594
RE: finally they will put an end to this
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RE: finally they will put an end to this
I vote a big "no" on it taking off.
How is it going to get airspeed when... there is not enough air (that only provided via the engines; see below) flowing over the wing?
Why doesn't our aircraft start to lift-up when we do balls-to-the-wall engine runs (w/ brakes set and chalks in place)?
If you put your car on a dyno, and "go" 100MPH, and hold your hand out the window, what is the airspeed? Zero. How is your hand going to lift/fall (depending on the angle you hold it at) when there is no air moving over it?
I understand the wheels don't move the aircraft forward, but, when the aircraft is on the ground, (now, I might be wrong here...) don't the tires move at the same speed as the fuselage. At least that's what I see day in and day out.
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OMG I just want to cry!! People are over thinking this just too damn much!! What makes you think the the plane will not be moving? Think of it like this: Planes can take off the back of a moving air craft carrier, correct? The boat is acting like the conveyer belt moving in the opposite direction. I am going to attempt to make an extremely crude model if I can find a prop to use for the plane, will let you guys know in a little bit...
RE: finally they will put an end to this
