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426 hemi vs 454 ls6

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  #1  
Old 11-13-2005, 12:23 AM
HemiMan4451 HemiMan4451 is offline
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Default 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

Which do you think could run faster and which do you think was a better engine?

Yea, yea....I know this is a Dodge forum but I'd thought I'd ask.

Anyone have any specs to back these engines up?
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Old 11-13-2005, 12:39 AM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

ooh, the 454 LS6 out of the Chevelle SS, killer engine, 450hp 500lb/ft of torque, 13.7sec quarter mile. One of my favorite cars and engines of all time. I'm gonna have to pick the 454 LS6. Don't get me wrong, the Charger R/T was close with 390hp, 490lb/ft of torque, and a 13.9sec quarter mile, but the LS6 was god.
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Old 11-13-2005, 04:00 AM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

i go with 426 hemi

- ever notice when you read a book or magazine they always say the hemi was rated "conservately" at 425 horses,
when put on the dinos rebuilt hemi's can pull out over 550 horses easily some say chrysler did this for policies or for insurance reasons. but the true fact is the design of the 426 hemi really gives it a upper hand. its hemisphericle combustion chamber aloud the flame to combust in a more natural enviroment. some say hemi's can excel till breaking point and that you got to constantly remind your self to let of the gas to prevent from damaging it. the hemi is still considered a muscle car marvel and in the late 70s to early 80s porshe used its combustion chamber design. i vote the hemi as a winner
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Old 11-13-2005, 04:24 AM
X_Spearmint X_Spearmint is offline
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

the 454 LS6 still put down consistently lower quater mile times.
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Old 11-13-2005, 05:53 AM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

I've got to go with the 454 LS6.....

Here's why..... plain and simple numbers....you can talk about how much potential the 426 Hemi has, but the reality is...it was never realized straight outta the factory. Yes you can beef up the Hemi, but so could you with the 454.

Fact, the Hemi and several other engines were "reduced" to fit insurance policies, but stock for stock...you gotta take the 454 here...

Now if we were talking potential, I'd be hard pressed to choose either one....as the 454 has tons of aftermarket and the 426 just has alot of potential for added power...
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Old 11-13-2005, 01:23 PM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

Didn't the hemi in the charger daytone have 500hp?
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Old 11-13-2005, 01:58 PM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

chrysler also had a production race 426 hemi...the fact of the matter was that when the hemi cars were popular, they dominated the racing scene, both stock and modified. this is why the majority of your "famous" drivers in the NHRA and nascar from the muscle car era were dodge drivers...

if i was going to pick a chevy engine that i really wanted, it woudl be an RPO L88...google it.
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Old 11-13-2005, 02:00 PM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

Quote:
ORIGINAL: X_Spearmint

the 454 LS6 still put down consistently lower quater mile times.



and thats why i go with the 454
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Old 11-13-2005, 02:13 PM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6


Quote:
ORIGINAL: X_Spearmint

the 454 LS6 still put down consistently lower quater mile times.
what exactly does this mean? it put down those quarter mile times in what vehicles? hemi darts were in the 10s...they were rare, but they were in the 10s, and the hemi b-bodies were smacking everything, including the "original muscle car", the gto, and it featured a GMBB.
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Old 11-13-2005, 08:26 PM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

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ORIGINAL: BadStratRT





what exactly does this mean? it put down those quarter mile times in what vehicles? hemi darts were in the 10s...
False. No showroom stock cars from back then (even now) are in the 10's stock. You might be talking about teh lightweight Race Darts that ran NHRA back in the day. 'glass parts, leaded fuel, high compression, ported, bigger cams, etc. There was never any of those sold through the factory, just made that way when the race teams got the "body in white".

**EDIT: I re-read it and I sounded like a real @$$whole. I didn't mean to come off that way, I just strongly dissagree. Didn't mean anything personal***

Yes, the hemi's were not rated correctly from the factory, but neither were the LS6's. Numbers are comparable, but there are no 'real' dyno tests to back up the "differnces" in ratings.

Hemi's, especially the dual quads, were notoriously hard to keep tuned up. Tuning a single 4 barrel can be a challenge, but getting 2 dialed in is extremely hard. The LS6's did it with a single Holley.

ANd the way I always put it when i get into this debate..."If Hemi's were as fast as everyone says and everybody wanted a Hemi if they raced, why are were so many Big Block Chevy's made? It wasn't because they were cheap. It was because they close in power and easier to tune. Why do they command such a high price today? There were so few made, not necissarly because they were 'king'. THe LS6 was the highest HP car to come out of Detriot until the viper. Where is the Hemi on that list? Oh..yea...behind a few other Big Block Chevy's (427/435). "


The problem with the Hemi's is they have such a reputation, everyone thinks they are the best. Have you ever ridden in a Hemi? Neither have I. I am not trying to 'preach' as everyone has their own opinion. But, I will tell you a story. I swear that the guy said this. I wouldn't have believed it if I wasn't there:

I go to a local car show, and there is a 70 'cuda parked nose in to a fence with a crowd of people standing around it. It's a 4 speed, shaker hood, Hemi powered, Cuda. My jaw almost hit the ground. Flawless...absolutely amazing. (Now I am a car guy, and I know Hemi's are cool) So I start talking to the owner. He said it was made for export in 70 and sent to Germany. He found it over there and brought it back...less then 20,000 miles on it. So I told him about my CHevelle. He said he also owns a 396/375 horse stock Chevelle. He then said (and I quote him exactly, I will never forget these words) "When I want to go in a fast car, I take my Chevelle out".

That reaffirmed my belief that a BBC is better then a Hemi. [8D]

And if you want to see a motor, look up an LS7. A few were rumored in Corvettes. Dynoed at 550 (from factory) real world dynos put it well north of 625.

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  #11  
Old 11-13-2005, 09:03 PM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

What was faster? What was better? lesee now heah hmmmmmmmm tough one if you wanted to go to yer local palace o' GM crap and buy the LS-7 heads and camshaft the LS-6 now, LS-7 454 Chevelles were the ones cutting the low 13 quarters but put some slicks on your 440-6bbl 69 Road Runner and get into the 13.0's, do same with "J" code and run high 12.'s Motor/Trend 2/1969 test was getting 13.50's @ 105 on stock polygalss with a 727 and headers running uncorked! analysis of e.t. v trap speed showing the first couple a hundred feet were quite un-hooked.

Can't really call a 68 SS Dart/Barracuda in the same class as the regular production cars all in all counting these things Ma MoPar had them all by far, I guess SS/A & AA still being dominated by these cars now a days cars isn't proof enough for most chiverlay types though. Yet most of these 68 cars were run first as SS/B's in the 68 season.

Thanks to The Baldwin/motion and Yenko's I think there are a few (way less) than any 68 Hemi Dart/Barracuda (50 or so of each) ZL-1 Camaros or LS-7 Chevelles that I've seen in SS/A (not a clone) nice wicked mean even but they still just don't cut the mustard lined up next to the Hemi A body.You ever watch a hemi car 800 foot out, drive by a big block Camaro after being launched with first and second air gears, seen plenty of that.(Rick Hauser most often I think).

Don't think there was is one car bettter than the other after all "all cars are a piece of ****" but I'd have to summerize that a Hemi anything would put the hurt to most.

Better , I don't know a Stage GS or 71 or 72 HO GTO probably better. certainly more comfy in the long distance cruise.

And then there's the E body Hemis

Mr devilreject's got it backwards. belly up to the GM counter more so than the Dodge boys would have too. Getting the LS-6 to it's best, needed the L-88/ZL-1 solid cam and the LS-7 cylinder heads at least. All Factory efforts in early 70's HP wars stiffled more due to emissions regulations than insurance, insurance was way too much money and going up at the time for anything with a big block hence the evoloution of 400 HO Pontiac's, LT 350 Novas,302 Boss, 340 Demon/Duster etc. Hemi was real dirty emitter even when Ma MoPar tried ball stud and single 4bbl Hemis. Potential of the hemi cars was unlocked with a set of 4.30's or 4.56 and converter if 727 and some gooey slicks.Most hemi cars were equiped with 3.54's Scatpack cars had 4.10's.


The only publishied testing I can recall putting the Chevelle faster than the hemi was a hemi cuda a match up of LS-7ified chevelle v 3.54 geared hemicuda all the other tests have the hemi cars on top with the 440's not much behind.
So I guess my conclusion here would be hemi,hemi,hemi,hemi,hemi,hemi!!!!!
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Old 11-13-2005, 11:51 PM
X_Spearmint X_Spearmint is offline
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

the 454 was the most powerful production engine of it's time. No other motor from that era had the kind of powere that the LS6 motor did. Stock from the factory the Chevelle LS6 was faster than the '69 Daytona, '69 Charger, the '70 Challenger, etc. all of which is really beside the point, the fact is this is a comparison of the motors and the stock 426 saw numbers ranging from 370-425hp and 490lb/ft torque. The 454 stock figures were 450hp and 500lb/ft torque. There were a couple Heni's that got under the Chevelle's time, but they weighed atleast 500lbs less to do it. And then I just pull out the Corvette ZL-1 numbers 3.9sec 0-60 and a 10.5sec 1/4 mile and the '69 Super Yenko Camaro that did a 3.8sec 0-60 and 11.9sec 1/4 mile, both of which had smaller, less powerful, engines than the 454 LS6, the deciding factor being weight of the vehicles.
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Old 11-14-2005, 12:02 AM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

and the hemi darts and SS a-bodied cudas woudl smack both of those cars around.
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Old 11-14-2005, 12:21 AM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

lol, kinda funny, there were only 2 ZL-1s made and the estimated HP was conservative, true figures on it were probably closer to 580hp. Even at a weight under 4000lbs the ZL-1 and the yenko, or the ZL-1 camaro make for fearsome beasts they just couldn't hope to match. These Chevy's were, basically, one off racers put into production.
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Old 11-14-2005, 02:06 AM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

For starters, I'd like to point out that the Camaro, Chevelle and Corvette weren't exactly the body type for Nascar back in the 60's and 70's.....but were still the more powerful/faster car as opposed to what was raced on the track.

That said, Nascar was totally dominated by Mopar based vehicles for a good stretch of time.

You also cant compare stuff that's built for a track such as the NHRA....we're talking stuff that was a production class quality car....so you can eliminate the ZL1.

You also have to take into account body styles and weight. The Camaro especially was never intended for anything more really then a 2 dr sports coupe. Some of these Mopar/Chevy cars were indeed offered as 2 and 4 doors....as well as were built on a larger frame to accomodate more people.

Oh and one last note, the Yenko was predominantly a 427 V8, not the 454. Yes, there were some that got it, but I dont believe it would have constituted enough to qualify as a production car.....
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Old 11-14-2005, 02:14 AM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

you do understand that in the muscle car era, 340 cudas were stomping big block chevys, right? there are a few factory big block cars that run in my class back in pittsburgh, and theyre lucky to get into the 13s...

the trim lines that you guys are defending were just as special edition as the factory built hemi monsters...

this list is all over the internet, and these all share reputable sources, notice, 4th and 5th were part of the same test. ie highlighted a few of note...the numbers speak for themselves...these are factory full production cars,....no yenkos, no hemi darts...

1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/65
-> 1983 Dodge Mirada 12.68@104 340 4bbl Automatic 4.10
2 1966 Corvette 427 12.8@112 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.36 CD 11/65
3 1969 Road Runner 12.91@111.8 440 Six BBL 390 4-Speed 4.10 SS 6/69
4 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.10@107.12 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/69

5 1970 Chevelle SS454 13.12@107.01 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.55 CC 11/69
6 1969 Camaro 13.16@110.21 427 ZL1 430 4-Speed 4.10 HC 6/69
7 1968 Corvette 13.30@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.70 HC 5/68
8 1970 Road Runner 13.34@107.5 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69
9 1970 Buick GS Stage I 13.38@105.5 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70
10 1968 Corvette 427 13.41@109.5 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.55 CD 6/68
11 1969 Charger 500 13.48@109 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 4.10 HR 2/69
12 1968 Charger 13.50@105 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.23 CD 11/67

12 1970 Plymouth Superbird 13.50@105 426 Hemi 425 ? ? ?
14 1968 Road Runner 13.54@105.1 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.55 CD 1/69

15 1973 Trans Am 13.54@104.29 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73
16 1969 Corvette 13.56@111.1 427 L88 430 automatic 3.36 HR 4/69
17 1969 Super Bee 13.56@105.6 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
18 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 4-Speed 3.91 HC 9/69
19 1970 Challenger R/T 13.62@104.3 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69
20 1970 Torino Cobra 13.63@105.9 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
21 1968 Biscayne 13.65@105 427 L72 425 4-Speed 4.56 SS 4/68
22 1964 Polara 500 13.70@107.37 426 4V 365 4-Speed 3.23 HC 2/64
23 1969 GTX 13.70@102.8 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69
24 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69
25 1971 Road Runner 13.71@101.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71
26 1971 Cuda 13.72@106 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71
27 1971 Corvette 13.72@102.04 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.36 CL 8/71
28 1971 Super Bee 13.73@104 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70
29 1968 Hurst/Olds 13.77@103.91 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
30 1970 Hemi 'Cuda 13.78@101.2 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 9/69
31 1968 Firebird 13.79@106 400 HO 335 4-Speed N/A HR 3/68
32 1967 Corvette 13.80@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.55 HR 5/67
33 1965 Catalina 13.80@106 421 6V ? 4-Speed 3.42 CD 3/65
34 1969 Super Bee Six Pack 13.80@104.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CD 7/69
35 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80@104 Boss 351 330 4-Speed 3.91 MT 1/71
36 1966 Satellite 13.81@104 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CD 4/66
37 1969 Coronet R/T 13.83@102.27 440 4V 375 4-Speed 4.10 SS 4/69
38 1968 Cyclone GT 13.86@101.69 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68
39 1969 Nova SS 396 13.87@105.1 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69
40 1969 Shelby GT-500 13.87@104.52 428 CJ 335 4-Speed 3.91 SS 9/69
41 1969 Cyclone Cobra Jet 13.88@101.7 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 1/69
42 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 13.88@95.84 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69
43 1962 Corvette 13.89@105.14 327 FI 360 4-Speed 4.10 HR 1/62
44 1969 Barracuda 13.89@103.21 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69
45 1962 Catalina 13.90@107 421 4V ? 4-Speed 4.30 MT 5/62
46 1969 Mustang Mach I 13.90@103.32 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
47 1967 GTO 13.90@102.8 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67
48 1970 Trans Am 13.90@102 400 RA 345 4-Speed 3.91 HR 2/70
49 1970 Torino Cobra 13.99@101 429 4V ? 4-Speed 3.91 MT 2/70
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Old 11-14-2005, 02:15 AM
X_Spearmint X_Spearmint is offline
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

who said anything about nascar?

anyways, my point is that the 454 was simply bigger, more powerful motor. I'm not knocking the mopars, they atleast had variety. I'm just saying you put the 454 in a challenger and it'll move faster than it did with the 426. No reason to feel bad about it either, the LS6 454 is obviously bigger than the Hemi 426, if it didn't produce more power and propel vehicles to faster speeds It'd have been pathetic.
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Old 11-14-2005, 02:20 AM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6


Quote:
ORIGINAL: BadStratRT

chrysler also had a production race 426 hemi...the fact of the matter was that when the hemi cars were popular, they dominated the racing scene, both stock and modified. this is why the majority of your "famous" drivers in the NHRA and nascar from the muscle car era were dodge drivers...

if i was going to pick a chevy engine that i really wanted, it woudl be an RPO L88...google it.

X_Spearmint - I was replying to that comment
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Old 11-14-2005, 02:21 AM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

the hemi dominated nascar...

and i made an addition in the list...
but it DIDNT make the cars faster..the list that i just posted shows that...

if i took the motor out of my stratus, and put it in a rail car, it would probably run 12s...at least 13s...that doesnt make it a powerful engine...
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Old 11-14-2005, 02:26 AM
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Default RE: 426 hemi vs 454 ls6

Jeeez what a topic, In 1968 Judy Lilly clicked off 9.80's at Lions in her SS cuda with minor prep, Arlen Vanke had similar times in a SS/B prep SS car, the cars were not given to racers as a "body in white" but deliverd to Hurst for completion and then would run 10's out of the box! with the unported iron heads, Chrysler race hemi camshaft, cross ram intake with 2 Holley R-3316 780's and, 12.5:1 compression stock! on a 9" tire!

LS-7 engine never came in production car, you went to the GM dealer and bought the LS-7 heads and solid cam to make it a LS-6 into a LS-7 or had Baldwin or Yenko do it for you.

Race hemi never came in production car, Race vehicles only. All of the 426 hemis were rated at 425 HP so as to dominate (there's that word again) the SS/A and B classes.

One more time "all cars are a piece of ****" one carb, two carb, three, tune is not an issue, street hemis with AFB's pretty streetable,race hemis with cross ram holleys brutal power out of the box as it was getting further into cross ram tune issues when the ramchargers started cutting up the cross rams for runner length tuning was a different story. The only AFB's I've run have been best in pairs!

Ma MoPar knew that the production of a 426 hemi car was a very special piece and it was never intended to end up in a truck or a hemi for the masses kind of thing (which is true today) this would be one of the reasons a genuine hemi equiped car carrys such resale value. GM on the other hand wanted to sell **** loads of 396,402,427,454 passenger and truck engines. See MoPar did it right rating the engines at 425 for the simple fact that the insight was there to have a (here's that word again) domination of a paticular race class by not over rating these engines. Also our friends over there at Ford missed the boat when they claimed a 635 HP rating (the highest ever from detroit) for the 2- 4bbl sohc which is why they ended up with the first flip top funny cars because they HP'd themselves out of SS/A or B. On the other hand chiverlay had ratings in 1968 of 385,390,400 and 435 for the 427's 1970-71 454's were rated at 345,390 and 460 cylinder head,camshaft and compression ratio dictated these ratings.

As I drive a 1969 4 speed hemi Charger about once a month and have had several other hemi B body's yes I can say they are a pain in the *** at times and not really that much fun to drive a great distance, gets to the grocery store real damn fast though! when waiting for the street light drags to start once it's warm and the piston slap is gone ya'll best be watchin out! The right gear ratio and SS springs are real hard to beat in a 3800 pound car!

Now if we have to espouse the virtues of torque the 510 foot pound rating that Buick's and a few select Pontiac 455's were rated at take the cake there!

And then if you go read our Holy book of gobbldy gook Dodge Bible and pay heed to Mr. Sheppards numbers, they say 3400 pound stick car running mid tens needs minimum 600 something HP.

Damn finger getting speed wobble now! c'mon more fodder please!!! VIVA MoPar
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