Module for diesel
#1
06-30-2004, 05:15 AM
Module for diesel
I am interested in the power modules for my 2500 diesel but I was told by a friend that it was maybe a problem for the auto trans. He thought that he had heard the drive train could not take it where the manual trans was ok. As I am not thrilled with voiding my warranty, does anyone out there have any information on this for me?
So far the module sites themselves do not say anything about this.
Thanks
Joe
So far the module sites themselves do not say anything about this.
Thanks
Joe
#2
07-03-2004, 04:24 AM
RE: Module for diesel
I have a new Ram 2500 diesel and I too was looking at the chip programmers. I've found a ton of info searching around on the net. Bottom line is that these things are a gamble at best. Yes, they do work, but chances are you are going to void your warranty and if you go with one of the extreme ones without any other modifications to your truck, you're going to break something.
The chip programmers are broken down into two basic groups (based on what they do to the computer to control the engine). One group increases power output by increasing fuel pressure in the common rail. The new Cummins 600 motor uses up to 23,300 PSI in the common rail. There is a saftey pressure release built in with about a 10% safety margin. The pressure fueling programmers will increase the pressure upwards of 27,000 PSI. This gives you about a 2%-3% margin on over pressuring. If you do over pressure the common rail and pop the saftey release, you have to basically replace the common rail....not cheap at all and the Dodge techs will know how you did it so your warranty is a goner. These boxes can gain you upwards of 100-180HP and 150-300 lb-ft of torque over stock.
The other group of programmers change the timing and duration of the fuel pulse from the injectors without using extra fuel or higher pressures. The HP and torque gains from these boxes are a lot milder than the pressure boxes, but you usually get better gas mileage as well. HP and torque gains are usually around 20-50 HP and less than 100 lb-ft of torque, but you can expect 3-5MPG better on your mileage. The new Cummins 600 motor has the fuel pulse timing severely retarded in order to pass emissions standards, so on this motor, these kinds of boxes are great for a little extra power and better mileage.
Many of the newer boxes use a hybrid combination of the above basics. Extra pressure as well as changing of the timing and or duration of the fuel pulse. Either way, any that raise fuel pressure in the common rail is taking chances that could cost you a lot of cash to get fixed. Cummins actually markets a kit that ups HP and torque and does not void your engine warranty, however Dodge will void the warranty on everyhting else on your truck if you use it. Using a programming box will also make your engine smoke like the dickens. When you see a diesel pickup that's smoking like crazy, chances are it's using a programming box.
As for how the techs can tell if you were using a box or not, it's all in the onboard computer in your truck. Any time a system on your truck goes outside the parameters of the programming, it "generates a code". It is this code that technicians read with their equipment to know where a problem is and in some cases tell them exactly what's wrong. The programming boxes available today do not actually re-program anything in the computer in your truck, instead, they intercept the commands being sent by the computer, and inject their own values (they alter the data to get the desired results). Sometimes, depending on what's being altered, it can cause the computer to "generate a code" because the spoofed data may be way outside acceptable parameters. If this happens, you aren't gonna lie your way around it with a technician, they will know. Also, there are particular codes that will get set or certain engine parts failures that are attributable to the use of these boxes. Since they've been around a long time, the techs know about it and will know what's going on the second they know what's wrong with your truck...even though you have unplugged your box and drove/towed the truck in in "stock" condition.
Another popular modification for diesels is propane injection. Basically,you add a small propane tank and lines to inject propane into the engine (you use 4 parts diesel to one part propane). The power gains with this are pretty phenominal. It's the equivalent to using nitrous on a gas engine. Again, this will void your warranty and you can't exactly hide it :-)
The chip programmers are broken down into two basic groups (based on what they do to the computer to control the engine). One group increases power output by increasing fuel pressure in the common rail. The new Cummins 600 motor uses up to 23,300 PSI in the common rail. There is a saftey pressure release built in with about a 10% safety margin. The pressure fueling programmers will increase the pressure upwards of 27,000 PSI. This gives you about a 2%-3% margin on over pressuring. If you do over pressure the common rail and pop the saftey release, you have to basically replace the common rail....not cheap at all and the Dodge techs will know how you did it so your warranty is a goner. These boxes can gain you upwards of 100-180HP and 150-300 lb-ft of torque over stock.
The other group of programmers change the timing and duration of the fuel pulse from the injectors without using extra fuel or higher pressures. The HP and torque gains from these boxes are a lot milder than the pressure boxes, but you usually get better gas mileage as well. HP and torque gains are usually around 20-50 HP and less than 100 lb-ft of torque, but you can expect 3-5MPG better on your mileage. The new Cummins 600 motor has the fuel pulse timing severely retarded in order to pass emissions standards, so on this motor, these kinds of boxes are great for a little extra power and better mileage.
Many of the newer boxes use a hybrid combination of the above basics. Extra pressure as well as changing of the timing and or duration of the fuel pulse. Either way, any that raise fuel pressure in the common rail is taking chances that could cost you a lot of cash to get fixed. Cummins actually markets a kit that ups HP and torque and does not void your engine warranty, however Dodge will void the warranty on everyhting else on your truck if you use it. Using a programming box will also make your engine smoke like the dickens. When you see a diesel pickup that's smoking like crazy, chances are it's using a programming box.
As for how the techs can tell if you were using a box or not, it's all in the onboard computer in your truck. Any time a system on your truck goes outside the parameters of the programming, it "generates a code". It is this code that technicians read with their equipment to know where a problem is and in some cases tell them exactly what's wrong. The programming boxes available today do not actually re-program anything in the computer in your truck, instead, they intercept the commands being sent by the computer, and inject their own values (they alter the data to get the desired results). Sometimes, depending on what's being altered, it can cause the computer to "generate a code" because the spoofed data may be way outside acceptable parameters. If this happens, you aren't gonna lie your way around it with a technician, they will know. Also, there are particular codes that will get set or certain engine parts failures that are attributable to the use of these boxes. Since they've been around a long time, the techs know about it and will know what's going on the second they know what's wrong with your truck...even though you have unplugged your box and drove/towed the truck in in "stock" condition.
Another popular modification for diesels is propane injection. Basically,you add a small propane tank and lines to inject propane into the engine (you use 4 parts diesel to one part propane). The power gains with this are pretty phenominal. It's the equivalent to using nitrous on a gas engine. Again, this will void your warranty and you can't exactly hide it :-)