77 power Wagon 318 manual trans
#1
77 power Wagon 318 manual trans
Hello all. Im new here and have purchased a 1977 Power Wagon. The rebuilt motor has 2k and the seller told me it vibrates when about to shift gears. When I test drove it its true. I also put the truck in netural and it still viberates at a certin higher rpm. I dont have a rpm gauge so i dont know exactly what rpm it starts but when in 4 gear hwy gear when I get to that certin rpm it still has viberation. Some advisors have said ck the harmonic ballencer and check the flywheel but I really dont know what im looking for. And would a ballencer off a 360 make it viberate or 360 and 318 the same ? and it being a manual trans is there a differant ballencer ? So this is my start I would greatly appricate any help and input, questions ect to get this thing running smooth. Its a very nice Power Wagon as the body goes. Needs some work but the truck is well worth putting money in to for what I paid for it. Thanks for any help in advance. DC
#2
I'm taking it the engine rocks at an rpm while not even moving. I'd start here...
Verify all of your ignition components to be good and the plug wires are on the correct cylinder. Put a timing light on the (marked) balancer and run it through the rpm range. The "mark" should move smoothly through the range and stop at its max mechanical advance. If fluttering around I'd suspect a problem in the advance mechanisms in the distributor.
Then the basic tests, compression, vacuum, fuel delivery.
I believe the 360s had cast cranks which required a special balancer. So yeah, that could be an issue especially if the 318 has a steel crank.
Verify all of your ignition components to be good and the plug wires are on the correct cylinder. Put a timing light on the (marked) balancer and run it through the rpm range. The "mark" should move smoothly through the range and stop at its max mechanical advance. If fluttering around I'd suspect a problem in the advance mechanisms in the distributor.
Then the basic tests, compression, vacuum, fuel delivery.
I believe the 360s had cast cranks which required a special balancer. So yeah, that could be an issue especially if the 318 has a steel crank.
#3
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#5
Tell your Pop's thanks from me too. Thats good to remember, easy, and so true. I believe the rebuilt motor is un ballanced. A buddy and I will pull the motor and ballance the crank & flywheel soon or buy a crank kit. I notice The rear main seal is also leaking. I really dont know what else to check after ive cheked that its hitting on all 8 and the timing is gtg. Ive pulled the fan belt off to check if the fan was making it viberate and it still did viberate. Need to find a motor stand and will get started but any other advise is surely welcome.. Thanks
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Last edited by DIRECT CONNECTION; 01-12-2014 at 03:41 PM. Reason: CHANGING PICTURES
#6
Hi all. We pulled the motor and dissembled it do to the vibration written in the first post above. Heres what ive come up with so far and im yet a little confused. I believe all the assembled parts should have worked. The part numbers are as. The block is 4006730-318-4, Crank is 265839, flywheel number on the ring gear is 2843211, balancer is 3614369. As far as the crank goes it is 10/10 cast and appears cherry and in a parts book I have shows its not the right one and shows the right one is part number 2128869 but other sources as looking on ebay and google show that the 265839 crank that was in the truck should work.Another thing is that I believe its a internal balanced motor right ? Man im all ears if anyone has suggestions of what to change or do. I remember the guy I bought it from said that the crank came out of an automatic then cleaned turned and installed As you can see the bearings are beat up for the truck only having 2k on the rebuild. Something is wrong here but what I dont know. Here are some pics of the parts and bearings.
Last edited by DIRECT CONNECTION; 01-12-2014 at 03:03 PM.
#7
the ware on the bearing is not right. the ware you have is at the parting plain. makes me think the bearing shell is squeezed at the parting plain. you really need an engine expert. all so important is are they all the same? the over pattern is important. I.E does the pattern go down or up from one shell to the next. i did some looking a round i think you have to much bearing crush. pushing the side of the shall in to the crank. did you get an under size bearing on a standard crank. time to get the mike out.
Last edited by moe7404; 03-04-2014 at 11:36 PM.
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#8
I'm thinking you're 1 digit short on the crank. Probably missing a "3" on the end.
Seems everything is pointing to the rear of the crank though. Is that what you were feeling?
Numbers "look" acceptable.
Was the block align checked?
Are the overlays OK on the rest of the bearings? The rear main surely needs replacing. Use plastigage (NAPA) for clearance checking. A mic isn't good enough.
You indicate the crank was an automatic. Check that the hole is deep enough with extra depth to accept the input shaft of the trans. Also, check that you have the roller bearing rather than a pressed oilite bushing that the input shaft rides in.
Other things that may cause vibration at the rear of the crank, twisted clutch cover, offset pressure plate, broken or collapsed springs in the clutch cover
Indexing the clutch cover may or may not have an effect on balance.
Seems everything is pointing to the rear of the crank though. Is that what you were feeling?
Numbers "look" acceptable.
Was the block align checked?
Are the overlays OK on the rest of the bearings? The rear main surely needs replacing. Use plastigage (NAPA) for clearance checking. A mic isn't good enough.
You indicate the crank was an automatic. Check that the hole is deep enough with extra depth to accept the input shaft of the trans. Also, check that you have the roller bearing rather than a pressed oilite bushing that the input shaft rides in.
Other things that may cause vibration at the rear of the crank, twisted clutch cover, offset pressure plate, broken or collapsed springs in the clutch cover
Indexing the clutch cover may or may not have an effect on balance.
#9
Thanks all for the help gentleman. Sorry its taking so long to get back. Yes Dave I think the last number 3 on the crankshaft is missing. good call lol
. When the truck is in natural and the clutch in-gauged both in gear and in neutral and it still had vibration would this eliminate the clutch plate ?
The crank shaft does have the deeper cutout that the input 23 spline fits. The pilot bearing looks undamaged and there is no scuffing ect inside the hole as viewed with a flashlight. It looks good and the crank itself is cherry !!
I did not ask the seller when I bought the truck WHY the crankshaft was changed appose to using the one it had in it but I took the main caps with the bearings in it yesterday to a machine shop and the guy thinks it's the line-bore. The bearing ware is different on all the bearings. I don't have good pics to post but I'm about to give up on this motor. That hurts ! lol
I have found a good running orange 318 out of a 1967 2wd truck that has a 3 on the tree manual. I can have it for near nothing. Is it possible my bellhousing will bolt up to that motor, and my flywheel exhaust, ect ? maybe have to put a new pilot bearing for the np435 ? I don't have any casting numbers ect just yet on that motor but should be able to gather them later today it just depends if the guy is available. I'm also considering buying a re-manned short block and putting the freshly rebuilt heads from the 77 on that.. Thoughts and input are greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the help !
. When the truck is in natural and the clutch in-gauged both in gear and in neutral and it still had vibration would this eliminate the clutch plate ?
The crank shaft does have the deeper cutout that the input 23 spline fits. The pilot bearing looks undamaged and there is no scuffing ect inside the hole as viewed with a flashlight. It looks good and the crank itself is cherry !!
I did not ask the seller when I bought the truck WHY the crankshaft was changed appose to using the one it had in it but I took the main caps with the bearings in it yesterday to a machine shop and the guy thinks it's the line-bore. The bearing ware is different on all the bearings. I don't have good pics to post but I'm about to give up on this motor. That hurts ! lol
I have found a good running orange 318 out of a 1967 2wd truck that has a 3 on the tree manual. I can have it for near nothing. Is it possible my bellhousing will bolt up to that motor, and my flywheel exhaust, ect ? maybe have to put a new pilot bearing for the np435 ? I don't have any casting numbers ect just yet on that motor but should be able to gather them later today it just depends if the guy is available. I'm also considering buying a re-manned short block and putting the freshly rebuilt heads from the 77 on that.. Thoughts and input are greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the help !
Last edited by DIRECT CONNECTION; 03-09-2014 at 11:37 AM.
#10
Thanks all for the help gentleman. Sorry its taking so long to get back. Yes Dave I think the last number 3 on the crankshaft is missing. good call lol
. When the truck is in natural and the clutch in-gauged both in gear and in neutral and it still had vibration would this eliminate the clutch plate ?
The crank shaft does have the deeper cutout that the input 23 spline fits. The pilot bearing looks undamaged and there is no scuffing ect inside the hole as viewed with a flashlight. It looks good and the crank itself is cherry !!
I did not ask the seller when I bought the truck WHY the crankshaft was changed appose to using the one it had in it but I took the main caps with the bearings in it yesterday to a machine shop and the guy thinks it's the line-bore. The bearing ware is different on all the bearings. I don't have good pics to post but I'm about to give up on this motor. That hurts ! lol
I have found a good running orange 318 out of a 1967 2wd truck that has a 3 on the tree manual. I can have it for near nothing. Is it possible my bellhousing will bolt up to that motor, and my flywheel exhaust, ect ? maybe have to put a new pilot bearing for the np435 ? I don't have any casting numbers ect just yet on that motor but should be able to gather them later today it just depends if the guy is available. I'm also considering buying a re-manned short block and putting the freshly rebuilt heads from the 77 on that.. Thoughts and input are greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the help !
. When the truck is in natural and the clutch in-gauged both in gear and in neutral and it still had vibration would this eliminate the clutch plate ?
The crank shaft does have the deeper cutout that the input 23 spline fits. The pilot bearing looks undamaged and there is no scuffing ect inside the hole as viewed with a flashlight. It looks good and the crank itself is cherry !!
I did not ask the seller when I bought the truck WHY the crankshaft was changed appose to using the one it had in it but I took the main caps with the bearings in it yesterday to a machine shop and the guy thinks it's the line-bore. The bearing ware is different on all the bearings. I don't have good pics to post but I'm about to give up on this motor. That hurts ! lol
I have found a good running orange 318 out of a 1967 2wd truck that has a 3 on the tree manual. I can have it for near nothing. Is it possible my bellhousing will bolt up to that motor, and my flywheel exhaust, ect ? maybe have to put a new pilot bearing for the np435 ? I don't have any casting numbers ect just yet on that motor but should be able to gather them later today it just depends if the guy is available. I'm also considering buying a re-manned short block and putting the freshly rebuilt heads from the 77 on that.. Thoughts and input are greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the help !
Im looking for a LA running 318 if anyone knows where one can be had in Northern to Central Ca,