EGR Code / Gas Cap Code
#1
09-28-2016, 02:50 PM
EGR Code / Gas Cap Code
My 2003 Dodge Durango with a 4.7 liter engine isn't passing smog at this time because of a check engine light. In the past the trick I needed to use with simply to disconnect the battery momentarily then put it back in and drive on into the Inspection area. The new vendor would not allow me to do so. I don't have the exact code at the moment and will need to locate my Doctor something or another. But the code that is giving me is either an EGR valve for a gas cap. I have twice replace the gas cap with no change.
The place to repair in the small Mountain Community I live in is trying to pull one on me and I know it. They want 3 hours of labor at $96 per hour to diagnose the problem even though they've got the code. They want me to believe the problem is much more serious than an EGR valve or perhaps the rubber tubing between them.
How many EGR valves are on a 4.7 liter V8 engine? Is there a particular one that is problematic or that can trigger the same code as a bad gas cap? My tags are paid but I can still get another Citation for incomplete registration. I think $300 is outrageous to go right to the point and fix it. I respect mechanics that are paid on commission. The more work they do the higher their commission is even if it takes less time than the book calls for.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm on a very tight budget with a daughter with brain cancer and me with arthritis of the spine. I just need to get the tags and make it street legal. Any of your help would be greatly appreciated!
The place to repair in the small Mountain Community I live in is trying to pull one on me and I know it. They want 3 hours of labor at $96 per hour to diagnose the problem even though they've got the code. They want me to believe the problem is much more serious than an EGR valve or perhaps the rubber tubing between them.
How many EGR valves are on a 4.7 liter V8 engine? Is there a particular one that is problematic or that can trigger the same code as a bad gas cap? My tags are paid but I can still get another Citation for incomplete registration. I think $300 is outrageous to go right to the point and fix it. I respect mechanics that are paid on commission. The more work they do the higher their commission is even if it takes less time than the book calls for.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm on a very tight budget with a daughter with brain cancer and me with arthritis of the spine. I just need to get the tags and make it street legal. Any of your help would be greatly appreciated!
#3
09-28-2016, 09:33 PM
Codes are useless without diagnosis. If you have an EVAP code on that year Durango, you could have split EVAP hoses all over the place due to dry rot. Most common is down on the canister.
If your EGR valve (only one) has a vacuum operated actuator, then YES, an EVAP leak can cause an EGR code OR vice versa.
If your EGR valve (only one) has a vacuum operated actuator, then YES, an EVAP leak can cause an EGR code OR vice versa.
Last edited by TNtech; 09-28-2016 at 09:36 PM.
#4
11-13-2016, 01:38 AM
Sorry for the delay getting back. My daughter has cancer and I've been living at the hospital. I'm broke. I learned the trick was to d/c the battery around the corner and then drive in. But these guys keep the card all day. I live high in the mountains with few choices. The mechanic says that they need to "investigate." Understood. But isn't the below enough? Come on. At $92/hr. this is BS. The issue is SMOG. Fix the leak and leave the gear and trans issues for later. I mean, right???
First, know that I blew the front transfer case seals by driving down a mountain road in low 2 on a iced over road. I failed to shift out and went to freeway speeds. They've rebuilt it twice. But now the front end fights me - like they just slapped it together. I don't know that they relate but here are all of the codes.
P0456: EVAP Small Leak (0.020") Detected
Generic Definition:
Code P0456 indicates that the Evaporative Emission System had a very small leak for a predetermined period of time.
Areas to Inspect - Possible Causes:
EVAP fuel tank or canister vapor hoses leaking or damaged EVAP system component leaking, fuel cap loose or missing Leak detection pump damaged or leaking
Condition For Setting The Code:
ECT Sensor from 40-90ºF and within 10ºF of BTS Sensor at startup, Fuel Level from 15-85%, engine started, EVAP leak test enabled, and the PCM detected a leak greater than 0.020 but less than 0.040" somewhere in the EVAP system.
Additional Resources
TSB Not Available
P0441: EVAP Purge Flow Monitor Fault
Generic Definition:
Code P0441 indicates that the Evaporative Emission System had incorrect purge flow for a predetermined period of time.
Areas to Inspect - Possible Causes:
EVAP purge solenoid vacuum line loose, leaking or restricted EVAP purge solenoid stuck leaking, stuck open or stuck closed EVAP purge vacuum line to canister leaking or disconnected EVAP canister leaking, damaged or has failed
Condition For Setting The Code:
Engine at idle speed in closed loop for 200 seconds, BARO Sensor signal less than 8,000 feet, ECT Sensor more than 160ºF, no Low Fuel, MAP Sensor signal less than 23.7" Hg, and the PCM did not detect any purge flow through the EVAP system during this test.
Additional Resources
TSB Not Available
P0732: A/T Additional Gear Ratio Error In Second Gear
Generic Definition:
Code P0732 indicates an incorrect ratio for Gear 2 for a predetermined period of time.
Areas to Inspect - Possible Causes:
U/D and L/R pressures less than 95 psi at 2000 rpm U/D or 2/4 clutch volume indexes out of specification L/R accumulator seals are damaged or L/R switch valve stuck Transmission has an internal leak (U/D or 2/4 seals leaking) L/R switch valve stuck in first gear position
Condition For Setting The Code:
Vehicle driven to a speed of 4-37 mph at more than 500 rpm, gear selector in 2nd Gear in Drive, and the PCM detected too much difference in the engine speed and output shaft speed.
Additional Resources
TSB Not Available
P1776: A/T Solenoid Switch Latched In Low/Reverse Position
Areas to Inspect - Possible Causes:
Related DTC P0841 may be present. Intermittent wiring or connector problems L/R pressure switch sense circuit is open, shorted to ground or to voltage Extremely low battery (system) voltage Transmission pan has debris caused by valve body damage Transmission internal problems, SSV sticking, or valve body damage PCM has failed
Condition For Setting The Code:
Engine started; vehicle driven to over 30 mph and the TCM detected the L/R switch was closed while performing partial or full PEMCC or FEMCC.
Additional Resources
TSB Not Available
0700: Automatic Transmission Control System Malfunction
Generic Definition:
Code P0700 indicates a Transmission Control System (MIL Request).
Areas to Inspect - Possible Causes:
The presence of this code means the TCM detected a problem TCM related Sensor has solenoid is damaged or has failed This code is for information only - check for other TCM codes TCM or PCM has failed
Condition For Setting The Code:
Ignition on or engine started. The PCM received a message over the CCD Bus from the Transmission Control Module (TCM) that it had detected a problem and set a trouble code in memory.
Additional Resources
TSB Not Available
First, know that I blew the front transfer case seals by driving down a mountain road in low 2 on a iced over road. I failed to shift out and went to freeway speeds. They've rebuilt it twice. But now the front end fights me - like they just slapped it together. I don't know that they relate but here are all of the codes.
P0456: EVAP Small Leak (0.020") Detected
Generic Definition:
Code P0456 indicates that the Evaporative Emission System had a very small leak for a predetermined period of time.
Areas to Inspect - Possible Causes:
EVAP fuel tank or canister vapor hoses leaking or damaged EVAP system component leaking, fuel cap loose or missing Leak detection pump damaged or leaking
Condition For Setting The Code:
ECT Sensor from 40-90ºF and within 10ºF of BTS Sensor at startup, Fuel Level from 15-85%, engine started, EVAP leak test enabled, and the PCM detected a leak greater than 0.020 but less than 0.040" somewhere in the EVAP system.
Additional Resources
TSB Not Available
P0441: EVAP Purge Flow Monitor Fault
Generic Definition:
Code P0441 indicates that the Evaporative Emission System had incorrect purge flow for a predetermined period of time.
Areas to Inspect - Possible Causes:
EVAP purge solenoid vacuum line loose, leaking or restricted EVAP purge solenoid stuck leaking, stuck open or stuck closed EVAP purge vacuum line to canister leaking or disconnected EVAP canister leaking, damaged or has failed
Condition For Setting The Code:
Engine at idle speed in closed loop for 200 seconds, BARO Sensor signal less than 8,000 feet, ECT Sensor more than 160ºF, no Low Fuel, MAP Sensor signal less than 23.7" Hg, and the PCM did not detect any purge flow through the EVAP system during this test.
Additional Resources
TSB Not Available
P0732: A/T Additional Gear Ratio Error In Second Gear
Generic Definition:
Code P0732 indicates an incorrect ratio for Gear 2 for a predetermined period of time.
Areas to Inspect - Possible Causes:
U/D and L/R pressures less than 95 psi at 2000 rpm U/D or 2/4 clutch volume indexes out of specification L/R accumulator seals are damaged or L/R switch valve stuck Transmission has an internal leak (U/D or 2/4 seals leaking) L/R switch valve stuck in first gear position
Condition For Setting The Code:
Vehicle driven to a speed of 4-37 mph at more than 500 rpm, gear selector in 2nd Gear in Drive, and the PCM detected too much difference in the engine speed and output shaft speed.
Additional Resources
TSB Not Available
P1776: A/T Solenoid Switch Latched In Low/Reverse Position
Areas to Inspect - Possible Causes:
Related DTC P0841 may be present. Intermittent wiring or connector problems L/R pressure switch sense circuit is open, shorted to ground or to voltage Extremely low battery (system) voltage Transmission pan has debris caused by valve body damage Transmission internal problems, SSV sticking, or valve body damage PCM has failed
Condition For Setting The Code:
Engine started; vehicle driven to over 30 mph and the TCM detected the L/R switch was closed while performing partial or full PEMCC or FEMCC.
Additional Resources
TSB Not Available
0700: Automatic Transmission Control System Malfunction
Generic Definition:
Code P0700 indicates a Transmission Control System (MIL Request).
Areas to Inspect - Possible Causes:
The presence of this code means the TCM detected a problem TCM related Sensor has solenoid is damaged or has failed This code is for information only - check for other TCM codes TCM or PCM has failed
Condition For Setting The Code:
Ignition on or engine started. The PCM received a message over the CCD Bus from the Transmission Control Module (TCM) that it had detected a problem and set a trouble code in memory.
Additional Resources
TSB Not Available
#6
11-24-2016, 12:40 AM
#7
12-03-2016, 06:57 PM
I dunno. I am not an emissions guy. but nobody does anything these days for free including Diag. time. Is $92/hour ridiculous Yeah! Hopefully they get your OK for 3 hours and if they find the issue in less than that, they charge you for actual time.
there is no "flat rate" on diagnosis. some things can be found in 5 minutes but especially if it winds up being electrical it may take quite a while, I hate electrical/electronic issues.
I am glad that I do not live in an emissions test area though they are getting closer with it, but I too am fighting an issue with my Durango that I narrowed down to the computer basically doing everything else humanly possible, including some new parts, taking the injectors into a fuel injection specialist for rebuild and reinstalling them to eliminate them as the cause of "my" problem.
As far as EGR goes, not all of them have it, at least on the 5.2/5.9 engines, not sure about 4.7s because i haven't messed with any.
chances are your 1st 2 issues are related (the codes you list) with a leaking vacuum or evap hose. cracked or burnt thru, etc. My 1st idea would be to look at all of these real close especially at the ends where they connect to other things (manifold, charcoal canister, EGR, ETC) and if I didnt see anything to get someone with a smoke machine to smoke it and see where the leak is.
my next idea would be something within the computer because it seems to be spitting so many random codes, my exp with computers is that they rarely fess up and "blame everyone else" for issues by throwing codes kind of "pointing fingers at everyone else but itself" Do you know anyone local that does "side work" that could possibly help you out?
there is no "flat rate" on diagnosis. some things can be found in 5 minutes but especially if it winds up being electrical it may take quite a while, I hate electrical/electronic issues.
I am glad that I do not live in an emissions test area though they are getting closer with it, but I too am fighting an issue with my Durango that I narrowed down to the computer basically doing everything else humanly possible, including some new parts, taking the injectors into a fuel injection specialist for rebuild and reinstalling them to eliminate them as the cause of "my" problem.
As far as EGR goes, not all of them have it, at least on the 5.2/5.9 engines, not sure about 4.7s because i haven't messed with any.
chances are your 1st 2 issues are related (the codes you list) with a leaking vacuum or evap hose. cracked or burnt thru, etc. My 1st idea would be to look at all of these real close especially at the ends where they connect to other things (manifold, charcoal canister, EGR, ETC) and if I didnt see anything to get someone with a smoke machine to smoke it and see where the leak is.
my next idea would be something within the computer because it seems to be spitting so many random codes, my exp with computers is that they rarely fess up and "blame everyone else" for issues by throwing codes kind of "pointing fingers at everyone else but itself" Do you know anyone local that does "side work" that could possibly help you out?
Last edited by volaredon; 12-03-2016 at 07:00 PM.
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#8
12-04-2016, 12:27 PM
disconnecting the battery will reset all of the emission monitors to an incomplete status. They must run and pass to complete an emissions test. Any shop who gave you a pass before with incomplete monitor status was breaking the law. This tech is actually doing his job properly.
there is no egr code in the list. You have 2 separate problems; one evap system and one transmission related.
The p0456 and p0441 are evap system related and probably both have set from one fault. 1 hour diagnostic time is reasonable.
the second issue are the 3 transmission codes. the p0700 is an information only dtc and set due to the p1776 and p0732. 1 hour diagnostic is reasonable but it may take more depending on what the tech has to remove for testing.
If they can't find the issue in 3hours, your at the wrong shop take it elsewhere. Diagnosis time will be the same elsewhere. Unfortunately, the code is only a starting point to a problem, not the answer. the problem can be wiring, component or module related. This is what the tech must determine.
After diagnosis comes the cost of repair and replacement so unfortunately, there will be more costs.
How old is this vehicle and what is the mileage?
there is no egr code in the list. You have 2 separate problems; one evap system and one transmission related.
The p0456 and p0441 are evap system related and probably both have set from one fault. 1 hour diagnostic time is reasonable.
the second issue are the 3 transmission codes. the p0700 is an information only dtc and set due to the p1776 and p0732. 1 hour diagnostic is reasonable but it may take more depending on what the tech has to remove for testing.
If they can't find the issue in 3hours, your at the wrong shop take it elsewhere. Diagnosis time will be the same elsewhere. Unfortunately, the code is only a starting point to a problem, not the answer. the problem can be wiring, component or module related. This is what the tech must determine.
After diagnosis comes the cost of repair and replacement so unfortunately, there will be more costs.
How old is this vehicle and what is the mileage?
#9
03-16-2017, 03:10 PM
I am on a fixed budget and finally saved enough to address this only to get hit with $114 to "diagnose" the problem. My AutoMD already diagnosed it just as the repair shop did. It went from a 0.20" hole in the canister identified by AutoMD to $400. Plus $61 for the SMOG papers. Did I just get screwed without a kiss? Are they using book repair times on me and not actual man hours? Bottom line, did I get hosed?