Rear wheels locking Not ABS Related
 

a guy im going to buy some dakota parts off of soon, is a fulltime mechanic, and i spoke to him about my brake issue, and he thinks my rear brakes need some attention, because slowing down to under 10mph then having the rears lock up and the truck comes to a screeching hault, that its rear brake related,

TO ME, i cannot tell if its just the rears, i think so, but when it happens, it jerks so damn hard its hard to tell, but the way i hear sliding, would suggest the rears are locking up

HE says, ABS Prevents lockups, shouldnt ever cause lock up, so he suggests i service my rear brakes, and my problem will go away, said something about springs being worn, i thought alot about what he said, and it really doesnt sound like its ABS Related, but im still a bit confused

I Really need to find whats causing this issue because its becoming rather annoying, ive had em lock up in front of a cop or two.... not fun.. im 24 and have never touched drum brakes before, so this shall be rather interesting

Drum brakes are not difficult to deal with. Just do ONE side at a time and take a picture of what you have beforehand if you've never done it before. Watch the shoes as well. The 4 are NOT identical. There are primary/secondary shoes. Usually the lining on the front (primary) is a bit shorter than that of the rear.

Use all new hardware, it's cheap. I'd replace the self adjusters as well (note: they often do not self adjust). New cylinders are cheap and good insurance as they do tend to seize as well.

ABS shouldn't let them lock up. ABS does not increase the brake pressure so if you're easy on the pedal it shouldn't lock up then either.

If you have a lot of clearance, re: badly misadjusted brakes, they can bind. By design they "pivot" when applied.

EDIT: soak the wheel cylinder mounting bolts and the brake line for a couple of days with a good penetrating oil. Use a brake line wrench to remove the line.

Good luck, keep us posted.

i have to press so lite on the brake, that it messes me up when i get in other vehicles, and the thing is, the brakes locking up, doesnt happen EVERY time, i will press lightly then out of nowhere they lock up and im sliding like im slammin the brakes on purpose

I'm guessing the problem is going to be obvious when you pull the drums off, whatever it is.

I agree.

Thirds. Just pulling the drums off will probably give you a visual clue.

the way you guys are making it sound, sounds like im gonna have some fun.... i will keep the camera handy

i pulled both drums off, the P/S looks fine, Dirty as hell, but i dont see anything that looks to be out of place

as for The D/S, the shoe closest to the rear bumper is pretty much all the way worn down, and i noticed that wheel bearing is bad, but other that, its just as dirty as the other side, but nothing fell out or looks out of place....

Can you post pictures?

Post a few pic's

Who did the rear brakes last time they may be installed wrong it happens.

When you replace the shoes and have the drums resurfaced, put a new set of wheel cylinders in as well. They're really cheap and can solve a host of problems--you may have a wheel cylinder piston that's hanging up some of the time.

I retract my last comment..... i pressed the brake pedal, and the P/S cylinder blew apart and that whole side is outta whack now.... LOL

Brian in tucson, that is the plan, at the moment my truck is on jack stands and wont come off until the job is done, replaced the Rack n pinion, the clutch master/slave cylinder with a system that has no air in it, and now ima smack this rear brake problem around until its solved, this should be a fun first time doing drum brakes..........

Edit, LMAO someone just told me i wasnt supposed to touch the brake pedal while the drums are off..... hahahaha trial n error is a fun game

Did you press the pedal with the drum off? If so that'll cause the rubber ends of the wheel cylinder to pop off and explode brake fluid.

You keep braking and braking but there's nothing to stop the brakes from expanding. That's the drums job.

May need to replace the cylinder if they ate old and filthy but most times you would be okay popping the rubber ends back on.

yes i pressed the pedal with the drums off.... the D/S did not explode or fall apart like the P/S did... but im sure everything needs to be replaced, shoes, cylinders, springs

EDIT: Anyone got a diagram of the brakes, i can find some online but theyre not identical

If they were down to metal they can grab and that may be what is going on.

I'm thinking one side of the cylinder is locked up on you. Be very careful replacing the cylinders you can snap off the brake line with ease don't twist the line at all be very careful you can pull the line back a bit the line will bend just don't overdo it just enough to get the line off and out of the way.

You don't want to need to replace the brake line major problem if that happens.

If the brake fluid keeps dripping out on you you may need to plug them up as you don't want to get air in the master cylinder.

This usually doesn't happen but be aware of this if you see brake fluid dripping and dripping constantly.


You should flush all the DOT 3 out after you finish the breaks as the fluid may be old just bleed the system till new Dot 3 comes out the bleeder but don't let the master cylinder get so low it starts sucking air in it keep adding fluid as you flush the system out.


Watch a few YouTube vids on this flushing the braking system out and how to bleed the system to be sure you understand this as this is something most screw up if new to this.

+1 be very careful when you replace the wheel cylinders as you need to remove the brake lines. Soak them in penetrating oil for a couple days and use heat (blow torch works well) to get it off. Use a flare nut wrench and if you don't have one - buy one.

I stripped my brake line nut when I did my wheel cylinders... not fun.

Don't forget to bleed your brakes.

Get the service manual on this forum and follow it

Remember with the 2.5L engine you should have the 9" drums look in your glove Box for this info should be a sticker on the door so all your parts are for the 9" brakes.

LINK


My Photobucket Pic's on the rear Brakes LINK I hope the link works with Photobuck its hit and miss

Remember each side is like a reverse of the other side. So do one side then the other side so things don't get confusing and take some pictures for your self so you can remember how to put it back together.

And check to be sure it was correct to begin with check the service manual you never know the last person may have put it together wrong.

Thats it i give up, im never touching drum brakes again, all new shoes, new spring kits, new wheel cylinder, and im stuck........... Took it apart, it wont go back together, i dont have 6 hands to hold the shoes in place and put the springs in place as well......

i would much rather tear apart manual transmissions than to tamper with drum brakes, im Done, not touching them, F%&K Drum brakes, i guess im stuck here at my shop until i can get someone to come and show me how to do mission impossible, cause i aint doin it, im too damn big to be rollin around doin this, ive done some hard things before, but this tops the cake........

EDIT: I see your pics, but i dont get how to start in reverse order, everything falls off/apart.

And that Wire, i dont understand how im supposed to put the loop before putting the springs, because the wire will try to come around the front of the clip, and then when i do get the loop in place, i cant turn the spring to put it in place over the loop because the wire cocks the clip sideways so i cant turn the spring to put it in place........ Seriously yo?

C clamps to hold the shoes to the backing plate to get started. Then those little post/spring/eye retainers. The hardest part for me has always been to get those cross springs in--vice grip needle nose pliers help for that. I have an actual drum brake spring tool--even works (sometimes.)

It CAN be done! I've done motorhome drum brakes--they're like 3 times harder to get back together.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!

Yea they can be a Pain to hold in place and put together but not imposable just kind of hard.

Some C-clamps do help but slide off on you also two people is the way to go one to hold and one to put the springs in.

Just relax and go at it again its better than paying some shop $150 to do it

Have you watched these:

P1


P2


When it talks about a brake spring tool - a big flathead screwdriver or even needle nose pliers work just fine. I've used both.

Well After MANY Hours of sitting there, Cussing & scratching my head, wondering how the heck this is done, an old friend popped up and went at my brakes for about 2 hours and finally got it, he says to me "if i had the kit to do this, we woulda been done 6 beers ago!!!", He put the P/S back together somehow without anything falling out.......

The truck brakes much much much better, and i have yet to do the D/S, the side with the worn out crumbling pad, Which is locking up, im gonna let my dad handle that one in exchange for replacing the engine harness in his Ranger, I promise you guys i aint touchin drum brakes ever again, not happenin

We have the drum brake tool, about 18" long, man it makes things easy.

The fact that your P/S side detonated but D/S did not, tells you that your D/S wheel cylinder or brake line is collapsed. You'll find out when you replace the wheel cylinder, and can't bleed that corner because nothing comes out. ;)

Whoooooaaaa After watchin the videos, uhmmmmmmmmmm A whole bunch of stuff is backwards, but thats how the other side looks too, so i was just going by how it came apart,

i will also make a stop at AZ or another place and see if i can borrow the spring tool to put the pin in place, that is what made is one hell of a time, i mean, One hell of a time...

This takes me back . . .first set of drums I ever did was on a 63 Corvair (wheel bearings let go just like Ralph Nader said they would.) And I did them backwards. I think my Dad actually paid to have them fixed properly @ Montgomery Wards, and the nice man let me watch. Geez, that was like 45 years ago.

BTW, I've never had the luxury of a second set of hands.

The good news. . .the learning curve isn't terribly steep AND it does get easier. Trying to be encouraging here. . . think of this is an investment. Not a physical one, but an experience one. You only do a mechanical thing the first time once. After that you have a memory of how it's supposed to go.

I don't know about now, but it used to be that those brake spring tools were available in the cheap tool bins. I think mine cost about $3.99 some 20 years ago. I can tell you it was worthless on the 15" brakes on my motorhome, but on a Geo Tracker or Chevy Sprint it made brakes easy peasy.

A life time lesson from an almost senior citizen (tho not quite yet) is that the more you do the more you can do. (And if you invest in decent tools, they can last a lifetime.)

I don't like doing my rear brakes but cant see paying $150 to get them done its never easy but I prefer to do it myself.

Good thing is its only every 5 or 6 years and I have never had the luxury of an extra pair of hands also.

I have never use the spring tool a good pair of vise grips work great for extracting the springs snap lock pull its off for the shoe hold downs I use a pair of needle nose pliers or just pliers of the proper kind.

I don't like having a bunch of special tools hanging around collecting dust/rust.

Have a laugh doing brakes with no tools this guy must have some thick callused hands to do this.

i picked up a HFT Brake tool set, and i finally got the pins in place to hold the pads in, and then i had to pretty much have the laptop next to me to do the brakes, took me a good bit, but i got it, and the truck is braking perfectly

So what was going on a locked cylinder or improperly installed brakes?

The one tool I may get is the Brake Shoe Retaining Spring Tool as pushing in the spring and twisting with pliers sucks a special tool for this is worth having.

http://www.arizonatools.com/img/prod.../KDT285_LG.JPG

^ That tool is why i bought the brake tool set

it had to be the cylinder that was bad, fluid was flowing fine, as for being together wrong, i pulled it apart damn quick and just went by the youtube video putting it back together