Starting the build process
#11
05-03-2016, 08:53 PM
Working away at the budget. I'm only about $500 short of the deadline, plus or minus. I probably end up missing the Mopar show in DFW, but that's the better alternative to more debt.
I still won't share my exact plans. Only Flyin' Ryan Hogan and a few others know them.
I'm hoping to have the powerglide bellhousing, flexplate, and crank adapter by mid June. Maybe a little more than that. At that point I'll be able to do mock-up on back of the V8 before having to pull everything off the back of the V6. I'm also exploring ways to remove the crank sensor completely instead of cutting up an SFI bellhousing. Goal is to have everything mocked up on the V8 with the complete transmission, so that I can pull the 42RE and driveshaft out, stab the powerglide in, and only have to measure for the new driveshaft.
Green is the camshaft sensor, blue is crank sensor, and yellow is the coil wire.
The cam sensor is a D shaped ring that is HIGH for 1-8-4-3 and LOW for 6-5-7-2. The crank trigger is LOW when material is present and HIGH when not present (windows).
Same firing order as a chevy V8, which means the same 4/7 swap could be implemented into the camshaft, the injector wires would just need to be swapped/lengthened to suit. This would, of course, require that somebody made custom mopar camshafts. *crickets*
The trick is making 8 crank pulses per half turn of the cam...which is 8 pulses per crank revolution, on 45 degree centers.
The other option is to retain the factory sensor plate, and relocate the crank sensor an increment of 45 degrees. Do-able, but not easily. I have an O-Scope, so getting everything matched up wouldn't be a problem as long as I was close first. The good news is that I can rough-guess it by dead-timing the wheel. The bad news is that doing it on the V6 changes the counts....it has 6 holes on 60 degree centers, so the sensor can't be relocated to the same spot on both motors...deadtiming the V6 is much harder with it in the truck.
Both blocks are 90 degree V8 and the crank sensor is right at 45 degrees. So 45 degrees of each bottom or straight down would equally work on V8. With the V6 being 45 degree dead-time but 60 degrees between windows, I'll only have 2 options.
The big problem with that, however, is that I don't know if the stock plate will interfere with the torque convertor bolts.
Screen%20Shot%202016-05-03%20at%2020-08.00.53%20PM.png
I still won't share my exact plans. Only Flyin' Ryan Hogan and a few others know them.
I'm hoping to have the powerglide bellhousing, flexplate, and crank adapter by mid June. Maybe a little more than that. At that point I'll be able to do mock-up on back of the V8 before having to pull everything off the back of the V6. I'm also exploring ways to remove the crank sensor completely instead of cutting up an SFI bellhousing. Goal is to have everything mocked up on the V8 with the complete transmission, so that I can pull the 42RE and driveshaft out, stab the powerglide in, and only have to measure for the new driveshaft.
Green is the camshaft sensor, blue is crank sensor, and yellow is the coil wire.
The cam sensor is a D shaped ring that is HIGH for 1-8-4-3 and LOW for 6-5-7-2. The crank trigger is LOW when material is present and HIGH when not present (windows).
Same firing order as a chevy V8, which means the same 4/7 swap could be implemented into the camshaft, the injector wires would just need to be swapped/lengthened to suit. This would, of course, require that somebody made custom mopar camshafts. *crickets*
The trick is making 8 crank pulses per half turn of the cam...which is 8 pulses per crank revolution, on 45 degree centers.
The other option is to retain the factory sensor plate, and relocate the crank sensor an increment of 45 degrees. Do-able, but not easily. I have an O-Scope, so getting everything matched up wouldn't be a problem as long as I was close first. The good news is that I can rough-guess it by dead-timing the wheel. The bad news is that doing it on the V6 changes the counts....it has 6 holes on 60 degree centers, so the sensor can't be relocated to the same spot on both motors...deadtiming the V6 is much harder with it in the truck.
Both blocks are 90 degree V8 and the crank sensor is right at 45 degrees. So 45 degrees of each bottom or straight down would equally work on V8. With the V6 being 45 degree dead-time but 60 degrees between windows, I'll only have 2 options.
The big problem with that, however, is that I don't know if the stock plate will interfere with the torque convertor bolts.
Screen%20Shot%202016-05-03%20at%2020-08.00.53%20PM.png
Last edited by magnethead; 05-04-2016 at 04:37 PM.
#12
05-04-2016, 06:21 PM
Mocking up where the electrical will all fit.
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#13
05-04-2016, 06:45 PM
#14
05-05-2016, 05:03 PM
More Crank sensor info:
The windows are 3/8" long and the ring has a circumference of 36.125 inches (11.50 diameter).
0.375/36.125 = 0.01038
0.375/11.50 = 0.0326
If I reduce that down to a 6.25" (19.635") wheel (to match an MSD crank trigger):
19.435 * 0.01038 = 0.203" window
6.25 * 0.0326 = 0.203" window
I'm just not sure if I should do it on the plasmaCAM I have access to, or do it on a lathe/mill instead. Or rough-cut on the CAM and clean it up on lathe. Or maybe it doesn't care about the timing so much as having enough material removed to properly disengage the sensor (IE, only pays attention to the rising or falling edge)
Definitely need more research.
Right now I'm CAM-cutting some bumper relocation brackets to move the bumper about 2 inches forward to make more room for..."stuff".
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Talked to Ryan Hogan and a few others. Looks like pulse width doesn't matter, the PCM is looking for a FALLING EDGE (end of the window/start of material) to trigger off of. In which case I can keep the 3/8" windows, but I need to make sure that I keep plenty of adjustability in the custom CMP sensor mount to be able to adjust where it triggers ref:TDC.
In related news, two diff inspection shops said that neither Air Bags or ABS braking are required to pass inspection, as long as CEL is off.
The windows are 3/8" long and the ring has a circumference of 36.125 inches (11.50 diameter).
0.375/36.125 = 0.01038
0.375/11.50 = 0.0326
If I reduce that down to a 6.25" (19.635") wheel (to match an MSD crank trigger):
19.435 * 0.01038 = 0.203" window
6.25 * 0.0326 = 0.203" window
I'm just not sure if I should do it on the plasmaCAM I have access to, or do it on a lathe/mill instead. Or rough-cut on the CAM and clean it up on lathe. Or maybe it doesn't care about the timing so much as having enough material removed to properly disengage the sensor (IE, only pays attention to the rising or falling edge)
Definitely need more research.
Right now I'm CAM-cutting some bumper relocation brackets to move the bumper about 2 inches forward to make more room for..."stuff".
--------
Talked to Ryan Hogan and a few others. Looks like pulse width doesn't matter, the PCM is looking for a FALLING EDGE (end of the window/start of material) to trigger off of. In which case I can keep the 3/8" windows, but I need to make sure that I keep plenty of adjustability in the custom CMP sensor mount to be able to adjust where it triggers ref:TDC.
In related news, two diff inspection shops said that neither Air Bags or ABS braking are required to pass inspection, as long as CEL is off.
Last edited by magnethead; 05-05-2016 at 05:37 PM.
#15
05-05-2016, 10:36 PM
Here's the bulkheads I am using for the power feed-throughs:
http://amzn.com/B000VYHDQY
Arlington LPCG757-1 Low Profile Strain Relief Cord Connector, 3/4 Inch
It takes a pretty big hole (I'm using a unibit), but won't cut through the cable and has a waterproof inner seal. The 2 gauge won't fit through it with the inner seal in place so I took it out and just put the cap on for looks, but on the feed-throughs in the cab floor, I left them in place so they will seal up nicely with wire in them.
I'm using a 12-way fuse + ground block ( http://amzn.com/B001P6FTHC ) and an sPOD Relay module I already had ( http://www.4x4spod.com/Default.asp ).
I also have a small power strip that I will use for ignition-on devices.
What is nice about the sPOD system is that it has an automatic voltage cutoff. When the battery hits 10.6 volts it shuts off, and it will not come back on until it sees 12.4 volts. So instead of leaving the radiator fan and W/P on and killing the battery like many times in the past, they'll automatically shut off.
At some point I will put a second battery in, connected to the primary with a continuous duty 85 amp solenoid switched by ignition power (mostly for aux load with engine on and for alternator charging), but also connected by a ford-style external solenoid wired to the starter solenoid wire, so that the truck can start off both batteries. Idea being that the secondary battery is disconnected for engine-off loads, is charged with engine on, and is available at full power for starting. Also means that I can completely kill the primary battery, but it will have no ill affect to the secondary battery.
Right now the plan is as follows:
1: Radiator Fan (also to PCM thermostat)
2: Water Pump (also to ignition on)
3: Racing Electronics (Delay Box, Dial Board, ect)
4: Open
5: Exhaust Cutouts (replace switch to DPDT Momentary)
6: Line Lock (replace switch with SPST momentary)
http://amzn.com/B000VYHDQY
Arlington LPCG757-1 Low Profile Strain Relief Cord Connector, 3/4 Inch
It takes a pretty big hole (I'm using a unibit), but won't cut through the cable and has a waterproof inner seal. The 2 gauge won't fit through it with the inner seal in place so I took it out and just put the cap on for looks, but on the feed-throughs in the cab floor, I left them in place so they will seal up nicely with wire in them.
I'm using a 12-way fuse + ground block ( http://amzn.com/B001P6FTHC ) and an sPOD Relay module I already had ( http://www.4x4spod.com/Default.asp ).
I also have a small power strip that I will use for ignition-on devices.
What is nice about the sPOD system is that it has an automatic voltage cutoff. When the battery hits 10.6 volts it shuts off, and it will not come back on until it sees 12.4 volts. So instead of leaving the radiator fan and W/P on and killing the battery like many times in the past, they'll automatically shut off.
At some point I will put a second battery in, connected to the primary with a continuous duty 85 amp solenoid switched by ignition power (mostly for aux load with engine on and for alternator charging), but also connected by a ford-style external solenoid wired to the starter solenoid wire, so that the truck can start off both batteries. Idea being that the secondary battery is disconnected for engine-off loads, is charged with engine on, and is available at full power for starting. Also means that I can completely kill the primary battery, but it will have no ill affect to the secondary battery.
Right now the plan is as follows:
1: Radiator Fan (also to PCM thermostat)
2: Water Pump (also to ignition on)
3: Racing Electronics (Delay Box, Dial Board, ect)
4: Open
5: Exhaust Cutouts (replace switch to DPDT Momentary)
6: Line Lock (replace switch with SPST momentary)
#16
05-12-2016, 07:45 PM
Got the fuse block and relay module mounted. Now to start the slow process of running all new wiring.
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#17
05-17-2016, 07:56 PM
Pulled apart the old electrical...thought i could re-use some of it...nope. Fuse block crumbled in my hand, i pulled the heatshrink and found this, in the section of wiring for the radiator fan. Definitely going to change something.
10 gauge wire and 3/8" connector.
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10 gauge wire and 3/8" connector.
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Last edited by magnethead; 05-17-2016 at 09:30 PM.
#18
05-27-2016, 09:42 PM
Still working away at the electrical. Day job is shaky and the dragster has been keeping me busy, so I've been saving as much as I can and haven't had much time to do work.
While browsing manufacturer catalogs I solved 4 problems but created 1 new one...which is okay because i'll take one easy problem over 4 hard ones.
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While browsing manufacturer catalogs I solved 4 problems but created 1 new one...which is okay because i'll take one easy problem over 4 hard ones.
20160525_195125-1.jpg
20160525_203704.jpg
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#19
08-20-2016, 04:58 PM
I'm baaaack
It's been stupid hot this summer and i've been working my tail off or traveling for most of it. Work is still shaky & other things have come up so I haven't been able to spend alot money on the truck. But I do have quite the pile of parts here next to my desk waiting to get installed.
I cut some brackets to move the bumper out 1.5", but found out some wasps decided to make a home in the trans tunnel along the way. It doesn't look TOO bad with the bumper moved out right now, from the side. With the grille on, it definitely shows a gap from the front. That's cosmetic, can be dealt with later.
I did locate a couple replacement radiators that will fit, will just need to be converted to AN fittings, fairly easy to do. One is a 3-row from a 00-05 Toyota MR2 Spyder, Overall dimensions are 31" x 15". The second option is a 2-row from 92-96 Honda Prelude, overall dimensions 28.5" x 19.5". https://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-...-radiator.html and https://www.mishimoto.com/honda-prel...nce-92-96.html Either option is much, much cheaper than getting a custom one made by Ron Davis, even though that would be ideal. They have a 22" x 13" aluminum radiator with fan ( PN 1A-1120P-1 ) for $680. Jegs has a regular Scirocco radiator (basically same dims) for $250 but uses regular hose instead of AN fitting.
The radiator will be getting moved in front of the core support, behind the bumper and between the bumper mounts. I'm not sure where the condenser will end up. I may end up sticking it under the bed or something, or going to a much smaller one. The cooling system will likely get set up last.
I have the relay sockets wired up to highly insulated barrier strips with covers, so all I have to do is mount them up. I also have an ANL fuse holder and 200A ANL fuse to go on the alternator wire. The steering wheel controls are pretty much done, other than drilling them out the back of the wheel to some wire coil to run down the column. While cruise is technically possible with the setup I'll be running, it's cluttery in an engine bay where I need every cubic inch I can get to shoehorn everything in. So I'm repurposing the switches for something else.
I haven't figured out how i'm going to mount the battery box. per NHRA rules, it has to be attached to the chassis with metal hardware, so bolting the poly-box to the bed floor isn't enough. On the camaro we used 3/8" all-thread with nylocks to stud-ize it to the trunk floor. We didn't have them attached to the frame rails, so hopefully I can get away with it on the truck. I'm just not sure how I'll make it all fit. May have to cut a steel plate in a Z shape to go around the battery posts. Going to take some cardboard templating to sort it out.
I still have a spare steering column in the truck, and there's some old stuff (like the broken stock airbox) that needs to get tossed in a trash can.
Hopefully I can get back to working on it soon.
It's been stupid hot this summer and i've been working my tail off or traveling for most of it. Work is still shaky & other things have come up so I haven't been able to spend alot money on the truck. But I do have quite the pile of parts here next to my desk waiting to get installed.
I cut some brackets to move the bumper out 1.5", but found out some wasps decided to make a home in the trans tunnel along the way. It doesn't look TOO bad with the bumper moved out right now, from the side. With the grille on, it definitely shows a gap from the front. That's cosmetic, can be dealt with later.
I did locate a couple replacement radiators that will fit, will just need to be converted to AN fittings, fairly easy to do. One is a 3-row from a 00-05 Toyota MR2 Spyder, Overall dimensions are 31" x 15". The second option is a 2-row from 92-96 Honda Prelude, overall dimensions 28.5" x 19.5". https://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-...-radiator.html and https://www.mishimoto.com/honda-prel...nce-92-96.html Either option is much, much cheaper than getting a custom one made by Ron Davis, even though that would be ideal. They have a 22" x 13" aluminum radiator with fan ( PN 1A-1120P-1 ) for $680. Jegs has a regular Scirocco radiator (basically same dims) for $250 but uses regular hose instead of AN fitting.
The radiator will be getting moved in front of the core support, behind the bumper and between the bumper mounts. I'm not sure where the condenser will end up. I may end up sticking it under the bed or something, or going to a much smaller one. The cooling system will likely get set up last.
I have the relay sockets wired up to highly insulated barrier strips with covers, so all I have to do is mount them up. I also have an ANL fuse holder and 200A ANL fuse to go on the alternator wire. The steering wheel controls are pretty much done, other than drilling them out the back of the wheel to some wire coil to run down the column. While cruise is technically possible with the setup I'll be running, it's cluttery in an engine bay where I need every cubic inch I can get to shoehorn everything in. So I'm repurposing the switches for something else.
I haven't figured out how i'm going to mount the battery box. per NHRA rules, it has to be attached to the chassis with metal hardware, so bolting the poly-box to the bed floor isn't enough. On the camaro we used 3/8" all-thread with nylocks to stud-ize it to the trunk floor. We didn't have them attached to the frame rails, so hopefully I can get away with it on the truck. I'm just not sure how I'll make it all fit. May have to cut a steel plate in a Z shape to go around the battery posts. Going to take some cardboard templating to sort it out.
I still have a spare steering column in the truck, and there's some old stuff (like the broken stock airbox) that needs to get tossed in a trash can.
Hopefully I can get back to working on it soon.
Last edited by magnethead; 08-21-2016 at 01:30 AM.
#20
08-21-2016, 06:43 PM
Truck moved itself today so I could mow around it. Let it sit and build temperature, thermostat opened and everything is still in good shape it looks like. Even with a weak battery, it started first try. Let it sit on the charger while I mowed.
You can see where I ran the battery main ground to the bed mount, right behind the exhaust.
Factory Radiator opening is 28 wide and 21 tall. Rear tire carrier is 32" between frame rails and 24" front/back. About 12" available from bottom of the bed to bottom of the trailer hitch.
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You can see where I ran the battery main ground to the bed mount, right behind the exhaust.
Factory Radiator opening is 28 wide and 21 tall. Rear tire carrier is 32" between frame rails and 24" front/back. About 12" available from bottom of the bed to bottom of the trailer hitch.
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Last edited by magnethead; 08-21-2016 at 09:28 PM.