Pinging under load/ aftermarket intakes manifolds
 

Hey all. My 5.9 magnum pings under load. I assume it is because the plenum cover is leaking. Its also using some oil and gas mileage has dropped. Since I will have to remove the intake to fix the leak anyways I was thinking of swapping out the keg for an aftermarket one.

Hughes clams their intake to out preform the Mopar ones. Is this true? they also say it will improve the mileage. true?

The Mopar P5007790 intake says it requires modifications to use. what needs to be modified? Can I expect improvements in power and mileage?

Hughes http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...p?partid=24773

Mopar http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar-Performa...oductId=750418

I think the general consensus is to go for the Mopar M1.. There's a few members with the Hughes and a few with the Mopar. They'll probably chime in sooner or later.


Welcome to DF!

I honestly can't think of any modifications needed. But either redneck or Whiteknuckle will chime in, as they both have M1s.

The problem that I see with the M1 is that they are out of production, Mother Mopar isn't making them anymore. So prices will skyrocket and they will become scarce. So get it while you can, because that leaves Hughes and Mr. Hughes apparently is an asshole. :icon_laugh:

I had the opportunity to pick up a good used M1 intake here locally off craigslist late last year. I passed on it, as the owner of the M1 intake stated that he lost a fair bit of low end throttle response with the M1 intake over the stock kegger intake manifold. I decided to perform the kegger mod and install a new plenum gasket, aluminum plate, bolts and washers. Fixing your plenum gasket on your existing intake should cure your pinging issue and help your fuel mileage, too..

WhiteNuckle rock climbs in his Ram and he loves the M1.

The M1 in the link is a 4bbl M1, it'll kill your low end, you want the 2bbl M1.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar+Performa...07852/10002/-1

why would the 4 barrel version kill low end over the keg? id figure the more directed airflow would increase the velocity of the air? Im new to this EFI stuff so help me understand.

It requires more rpm to pull in more air to make the engine operate properly. Basically too much capacity for air, not enough air.

that's where im kind of confused. Doesn't the keg have more capacity than the 4 barrel? The pictures ive seen with the plenum cover off looks like its just an open plenum with runners that suck from the open space. Is this inaccurate?

No, that's right. The more open space means the air is moving at a slower velocity, which means it will run out of wind sooner.

I dont know if there is an intake with better low end that the kegger. That is ALL it has. The M1 is great, and with the right complimentary mods you will improve the low end and gain massively in the upper range.

On a stock engine though, you will lose a little low end

It moves the power band up...I'm building my Ram for torque so I'm staying with the stock manifold.

On my Dakota I've gone from a 2bbl M1 to a 4bbl M1 and now I have an Indy 360M intake all in the quest for more top end speed, but my converter has increased as well...4000K now

Want the power to come on right away with a stock converter...Stay with a stock manifold. It's pretty hard to have a manifold discussion only...It's a sum of all parts.

^^ This.

Kegger is better for bottom end due to runner length. Those long runners promote air flow at lower RPM. Of course, they also choke it off at higher RPM.

The M1 manifold is a single plane, short runner manifold. Designed more for mid-range, to high rpm. The two barrel flavor will give somewhat better response on a truck motor due to the SMALLER plenum area. (velocity over volume) Basically, with a two barrel throttle body on there, it fools the engine into thinking the runners are longer than they really are.

An M1, (2bbl) with proper supporting mods will actually give you MORE bottom end, then the kegger..... These motors in stock form are seriously under powered.

^^^^ +1 on this statement.

I guess I will be repairing the stock intake if there is not benefit to replacing it. Is the hughes intake repair kit the way to go? also since I will be saving money by not buying a new intake I want to put it into an electric fan and spectre intake system. Has anyone been able to increase their mileage by doing this? Even if I picked up 1 mpg it would help quite a bit.

Don't buy Hughes, Mr. Hughes is a jerk and over prices his stuff.

Go on eBay and buy the plenum plate made by bwdakrt. He's a member here on DF and makes a very nice plate for $54. I have one myself and it works great.

I cant find the bwdakrt plate. I did however find a plate sold by trisa34 that $54. is this his new account?

checked to see if the plenum gasket blow tonight. Burnt oil on throttle blades, burnt oil on throats, and film of oil on intake floor. Yall have talked about the m1 intakes but what about the hughes intake?

Trisa34 is his wife. She's running the selling operation.

The members here who are running the hughes arent as active as those with the m1...as far as I know, it takes a bit more work to install it and the fitment isnt always 100% perfect...but those who have it seem to like it. hughes does provide a link to a pretty good step by step install procedure from some guy with a durango. i still can't make up my mind as to which i want, i go back and forth daily between the two.

As an M1 owner, I'd only suggest going that route if you are planning other mod changes. Those mod changes do not need to be aggressive at all. Those mods ALSO really need to be thought of in terms of requiring a tuner to tap them. If you are on the mild side, then the basic superchips is the choice. Going beyond, you are really limited to B&G (costly) and Hemifever (mixed results from what I've seen of the clientele here).

A minimum budget to start seeing the M1 -- $1000

Do a search here on DF for M1 threads. We have a dedicated thread there where F1 Air Gap came to the discussion too. The input in that thread would not have changed since then. In the thread, I don't ever recall someone that has gotten the Hughes intake offer their experience. In fact, I don't recall any post/thread here about them, not that I've looked for them or say they don't exist.

I'm skeptical of the "loss" in bottom end. It may be just me b/c I have 4.10 gears.

If you are just street DD type driver, then bolting on the M1 is a good choice. It literally is a bolt on.

all I have done to the truck is a 10 series flowmaster inplace of the stock one and have a spectre cai on the way here. I will get a tuner eventually. is the superchips better than the sct tunner? If this helps my truck has 3.50 in the rear.

are you speaking of the 2 or 4 barrel intake? and did you also buy the install kit?

Also a M1 owner, 2bbl and yes the install kit is needed. Yes true bolt on no messing around with fuel lines or unshrouding of injector ports, has a spot for the air temp sensor whereas the F1 does not, min mods and you will gain so called lost tq.

I know Sheriff420 has an AirGap and he complained about fuel rail fitment and the lack of the air temp sensor like merc just said. I think it's also taller than the M1 as well.

As for the loss of low end, it's a perceived loss, me thinks, because low end is pretty much all these Magnums have. When you move it up a 1000rpm it is perceived as loss.
I think HS 1.7's can fix that quite easily.

^^^ 1.7's and a tune and it will gain tq in the lower band and carry it all the way over 5000 rpm no more flat power after 3500-3700 rpm. One of my tricks is to stay with the stock TB no big gulp here, I have a 52mm BBK TB in the shop tried it and over 2500 it helped but took away from lower end, put the stock tb back on and its never left. This of course is not a stock motor comp wise or cam wise so results will be different.

^Bingo. I know for a fact that my rig runs out of steam at 3500rpm. :(

So now add in 4.56 gears, towing out of OD and 315/75r16 that puts me at 2800 rpm at 60 mph give or take, so if I had the stock kegger intake I only have 700 rpm to play with before it falls off for power, so are going deep gears and towing such a good thing when the stock motor falls off like it does.

So yours pulls well even with 37s?

when you say 1.7 im assuming you mean rocker arm ratio, correct? Im not so much looking to hotrod my truck right now. I just want to have an intake thaty has 0% chance of a plenum leak and since im messing with . im going to Texas tech in the fall. when I went to visit I had to go up some hilly road and my engine hated it. it pinged like crazy and scared the piss out of me. plus the mileage SUCKED! it averaged out to a little over 13 mpg. ive never got that bad of mileage on the highway in that truck.

Yes, 1.7 is the rocker ratio, acts like a mild cam. An aluminum plate will do just fine if you're not looking to hot rod the truck. One member here has a Hughes plate and it's leaking again, but his manifold is suspected to be warped.

Yes, I have ran the M1 with just a few mods and it worked very well all round. The more mods you have the better it works of course but it will even help a almost stock motor perform better.

have you seen an increase in mileage? How about throttle response?

Who are you directing that at? lol Merc or me?

I have seen an increase in mileage and throttle response with the fixed kegger myself.

Mpg stayed the same or a little better, it was small amount not much. Throttle response is instant no bog or hesitation at all.

Will this intake fit my 2001? Is this the egr version? https://dodgeforum.com/forum/parts-s...dfw-texas.html

It'll fit. That's the EGR port in the second pic., the oblong hole and the round hole next to it. Just put a blockoff plate on it and your ready to go. It also has the two holes for temp sensors, one already has a plug in it. It's for the EGR engine, but it'll work fine on yours with the EGR port blocked off.

i have the airgap and its one of the best mods for the magnum along with sct and 1.7

@ lastrights, what did you end up doing with the IAT sensor?

p.s., I'm about 40 mins north of pittsburgh....near cranberry.

i have the m1 as well. but..... i also cammed my engine, as well as installed the hs 1.7's. im running a 50mm tb, and cannot believe the amount of low end tq i have.

truck also pulls extremely well all the way past 5k rpms. in fact when at full throttle, the engine wants to keep going, but shifts before redline.

i have yet to tow anything for more than a mile, but i cal already tell theres going to be a huge difference than before.

4.56 gears and 35's are next. tires before gears most likely...