USA standard spider gear set.
 

hey guys.

I just got my spider gear set from amazon. After I pulled and cleaned my old spiders, pin and bolt I opened the box and noticed that my new pin is not a solid unit like the one I pulled out..

When I opened the box, the gears were not sealed in the package like they should have been. they were just clanging around in there. I also noticed on the gears that someone had wrote "1" "2" "3" on the gears with a marker. those were the ones not sealed in the package. the one that was still 1/2 sealed had no writing on it.

So before I install these and have something go wrong, I want to make sure I got the right pin, maybe its just a new style since it is not a solid pin like my old one.. here are a few pics.

OLD ON RIGHT, NEW ON LEFT

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Attachment 35010


http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps266f1538.jpg


anyone with experience with the set please let me know. thanks.

And this would be a "spun bearing" huh? never encountered one. just checking. Passenger side rear.

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps53e9ba10.jpg

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/s...pse177fd79.jpg

Attachment 35008

I don't think the pin is correct. Your axles are held in by those c-clips. With that cutout in the pin, it looks like if it was in the 'right' (wrong?) orientation, it would allow the axle to come in far enough to drop the clip..... which would really suck if you were moving at any kind of speed..

that is what I was thinking and worried about.

I contacted amazon and told them everything and they have a new one on its way to me right now, overnighted.

hope the new one is correct as the part # matches Randys ring and pinion website.

Let us know what ya get. I suspect that package was opened, and discovered to be wrong.... or, some parts were put in the wrong box..

will do. I knew I should have just got my set from Randys, but saving about $40+ made me go the amazon route.


those black marks in my axle housing, is that what a spun bearing looks like? or would that be heat build up? ive never ran across that before on any trucks/cars ive worked on.

my axle shafts don't look too bad where the bearings ride. the driver side is fine, the passenger side has a blue'ish tint to it but looks good otherwise.

well I think its time to go buy a ps4 or xbox one to kill some time tonight while I wait for my parts :D

That's a notched cross pin, definately not a stock replacement if that's what you ordered. The notched pin is used when you switch to a lower ratio gear set (4.56, 4.88 etc.) as an alternative to grinding or shaving a tooth down on the ring gear in order to physically insert the cross pin into the carrier. Lower ratio = smaller pinion gear so the ring must be thicker to maintain proper mesh. The notched pin allows you to put the carrier back in assembled with the pin in place and still have the ability to place the C-clips back in by simply rotating the cross shaft. You rotate the pin so that the notch faces the end of the axle, push the axle in, insert C-clip and pull back, repeat for other side. As you can see in the pic the notched is oriented such that when the cross pin bolt is in place the notch is 90 degrees to the ends of each axle (facing to the front or rear of the vehicle) so they don't pop out. You definately were given the wrong cross pin.

thanks Oxy..


Well UPS showed up with my new kit... everything is sealed this time except one axle spider.

as soon as I opened the box, the first thing I seen was this...........

[URL=http://s577.photobucket.com/user/xplorer82/media/IMG_20140822_101335831_zps3f0761cd.jpg.html]http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps3f0761cd.jpg[/URL


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ugh... i guess i'll go install the set and mess around by hand to see if i can get a c clip to fall out before i hit the road. i would reuse my cross pin, but it is worn pretty well where the bolt goes thru. the pin had a lot of slop in it which i believe was making my spiders move/bind and had play.

wish me luck. hope i don't have to rebuild after this.

I called Randy's for the hell of it and asked about their USA standard kit and the cross pin. the guy said that it is designed like that for different ratios like Oxy said. He assured me that I will not lose a axle and be dragging ass down the road.

So out to go throw this new kit in and play with it before I drive off. I hope this will help someone else if they come across this problem and have the same thoughts...

If I drag ass i'll update.

installed, I do not believe I will have a problem with clips falling out. the notch is placed perfectly that it will not affect the axles.. I have no play within the smaller gears like I had previously. I did notice that one of my side gears for the axle had enough play (in and out) should I throw a thicker spacer in there?

my old set up had one thin spacer per side gear. I installed the new spacers that were the same thickness. but I believe I could go one size bigger probably on each side gear. I just do not want to throw anything off and mess it all up. Should I just stick with the same thickness I pulled out?


Attachment 34995

I was thinking about the spacer thing just now while looking at my picture...

"in my mind" - I have no play with the smaller gears now. But....

over time when material wears off I would increase the thickness to push the side gears "out" which would then push the smaller gears "up" to force the play out of them?

i'm going to go put my axles back in, clean things up and put my new diff cover on.


thanks guys.

Ideally, you should have very little wear in there. Just keep fluid level where it is supposed to be.

Ok, I've tried to search for some info on the spacers for the 2 axle spider gears and cant find much info...


- is there supposed to be any "in and out" play on the axle spider gears (none on passenger side, little on the driver side.)
- If no in and out play is supposed to be there would it hurt to just add one spacer/shim to the driver side and leave the passenger side alone?

- what exactly are the spacers for?
- do they change backlash at all?
- do they change run out (I think that is the words im looking for)? I need to read up on that a little more.
- do I need to check the spider gears backlash or is that just for the ring gear? I was good at .012/.013 thousands on the ring gear


I took everything out including the spacers on each gear and added the next biggest spacer to both side gears and it kind of felt like it was binding, very slightly but still spun freely. the axle shafts were rubbing directly on the cross pin when I added the next size up and spun the spiders by hand.. I did grab the outer axles and checked for in and out play and there was a tiny, tiny bit... so im guessing it wouldn't have done damage to the cross pin.


sorry for all the questions, and maybe some confusion. just want to do things right. im not sure why I have in and out play on the driver side spider gear, but not the passenger side..

GM uses the same method to retain the axles in a fair few of their rear ends, I have never seen spacers used in those, and I have always seen a bit of side to side slop. There is probably a 'tolerance' value listed somewhere, but, I haven't seen it. (but, I haven't looked either.) Does the FSM have anything to say about it??

i looked thru the FSM a little awhile ago and did not see anything pertaining to the side gears as far as tolerances.. i could have over looked it if there was anything. i'll go take another look

Looking at the R&R procedure for axles, none of the pics show spacers, and they don't talk about them in the detailed instructions either...... can you find anything else online that talks about those??

no i cant find much info on them. I came across a couple useless threads elsewhere pertaining to the side axle gears and the spacers (thrust washers, shims, whatever they are called). my kit came with 6 total. 3 different thicknesses. im not going to worry about it too much. I just threw the ones back in I first installed that matched up to the originals I pulled out with my old gears.


while being a dumbass I blew a wheel cylinder so add that to the list. replacing both tomorrow. I forgot I had my key on to spin my carrier, went to start the truck to charge battery cause it was a few hours and forgot I had it in natural so the rear started spinning.... no drums on + plus brake pedal..... well, you know what happened. and like a dumbass I couldn't get the rear to stop spinning so what do I do instead of turning the key off??? please, don't ask. I can still hear that split second noise :(

Long day in the trenches? :) I have done similar things in the past......

I couldn't find squat on them. Not even places that sell them..... No threads about them, nothing. Although, limiting slop on the ends of the axles DOES seem like a fairly good idea.....

o yes, very long day.. dealing with the truck, my wife that just had back surgery (disc taken out and fused), my daughter on her 3rd day of school calling wanting us to come get her from school..... its time to take another Xanax (prescribed) and relax.

thanks for helping me look around for info bud, appreciate it. Back at it in the a.m.

School starting already????? How old is your daughter?

yes sir. first day was Wednesday. she is 10, 5th grade. a few schools in the area started school Monday/Tues.

Ah. :) Such fun. School here doesn't start until after labor day...... used to start in late august, MANY years ago. :D (yep, I'm old.) She go to a private school?

Whereabouts in Ohio? I can throw rocks at ohio, and actually expect to hit it, I am so close. :)

it seems like the last 3 yrs its getting earlier and earlier in the year. that's ok with me tho :).. nope public school.

I am about 20 miles south of Cleveland. Medina, Ohio. Not too far from you.


Well went out this morning, double checked everything and torqued my pinion shaft pin to spec (well little over, I don't trust my HF torque wrench). I wanted to get a mesh pattern on the spiders just to see but forgot to look for the stuff when I went and got my cylinders last night. so I just soaked the spiders good in oil and snapped a few pics. just want a opinion on the markings if the HD worked on my droid. Time to go install the new diff cover and let that sit overnight to fully sure (im anal like that on everything), itll give me time to swap cylinders and hope I don't have to run new brake lines as well. damn rust.


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If it isn't real sloppy, you are more than likely fine. (and not too tight either....)

Soak the flare nuts with PB Blaster really good, and let it soak in for a bit. Makes them more willing to come off without twisting the snot out of the line. If you work them back and forth a bit, it helps clear the rust as well. (I am not a fan of replacing lines.... unless they really need it....)

Lived in Cleveland for a while (shaker heights, the nice part....) and hated it. I am just not a fan of large cities. I live between two Podunk little towns now, out in the sticks. (corner of two dirt roads. :) ) and LOVE it.

no there wasn't much slop at all, or tight. it all rolls smoothly. Cover is on and curing.. I really wished I would have threw the next size shim on just the driver side but without info on affecting anything I just said screw it

Ive been soaking the fittings and stuff since last night. about 4 baths total.... the fittings were so rusty they stripped and had to vice grip them... so off to get a roll of easy bend hard line and just do both sides back there from the block to the cylinder.

im not really a big fan of the big cities either anymore. right now im on the outskirts of medina county, country environment. my neighbor is a corn field and everyone else is a distance away. peaceful.. can't complain at all. free to do as I please when I please.

welp, off to the store, again.

Yep. You ARE aware of the unwritten law that states "Any endeavor of doing truck repair, will require at LEAST three trips to the parts/tool store." :D

I MUCH prefer living out here, than in town......

Oh yes, i'm well too familiar with that Law. ive lost track of store runs on this project. probably 5. :D

got the bad cylinder changed out and that brake line ran. I was in no rush so i'll get to the other side 2morrow and bleed the piss out of them then fill up the differential. I think I will try the jar of fluid and engine off bleeding this time around. ive always had the engine running and a pedal helper (daughter)

An extra foot does make the job a lot easier..... could wait till she gets home from school..... (good excuse to FO for a while. :) )

well truck is done. I did the one person brake bleeding. it worked GREAT. I now have the best brakes ive ever had since I bought the truck years back. there must have been a lot of air in the lines before.

Rear end sounds and feels smooth. i'll call it a done deal. the first few hundred miles im going to take it easy and not let it heat up too much each trip I make then drain and refill 500 miles later. maybe so with a synthetic gear oil after that. im just running regular 80/90 for now.

Nicely done X!!

thank you Wh1t3.