Cheese on the Oil Cap?
#21
01-14-2011, 02:29 PM
Thats it right there. If you look at the location of the oil fill tube, it has air from the fan blowing on it. Engine heat passes through the inside of the tube, is cooled by the air from the fan and creates condensation inside and that mixes with the oil. With no air moving past it, you wouldnt get any condensation as long as the engine was at operating temp. I have never seen this on a car where the oil fill is shielded by other engine components. While short trips are a factor, this can be seen in an engine that is beat hard and never does a trip under 50 miles. Short trips just make this problem worse. The error is not in the whole tube. It shouldnt be that large and out in the open where the contents inside can cool. If someone thinks this is natural or no big deal; start running the heating ducts for your house on the outside before you run it to all the rooms. Its just not logical.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the location of the oil fill OR the fan "blowing air past it"...
This happens, or can happen, on ALL vehicles, regardless of where the fan or oil filler is.
#22
01-14-2011, 02:36 PM
Thats it right there. If you look at the location of the oil fill tube, it has air from the fan blowing on it. Engine heat passes through the inside of the tube, is cooled by the air from the fan and creates condensation inside and that mixes with the oil. With no air moving past it, you wouldnt get any condensation as long as the engine was at operating temp. I have never seen this on a car where the oil fill is shielded by other engine components. While short trips are a factor, this can be seen in an engine that is beat hard and never does a trip under 50 miles. Short trips just make this problem worse. The error is not in the whole tube. It shouldnt be that large and out in the open where the contents inside can cool. If someone thinks this is natural or no big deal; start running the heating ducts for your house on the outside before you run it to all the rooms. Its just not logical.
I have just never heard that philosophy. Anyways, to the OP, if you find your oil milky during the change, you def have other issues...
#23
01-14-2011, 02:52 PM
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I dont see engines with the oil fill on the valve cover with this problem. Any google search would tell you that it you see this, you most likely have a head gasket problem or the trips that the car is being used for are too short.
This problem is 100% avoidable. Moisture in the oil system is bad (I sure hope you can atleast agree with this part) leading me to the statement I have argured for all along: this is a design flaw on Chrysler's part. If something can be avoided, and it's not, I would call that a flaw.
#24
01-14-2011, 06:28 PM
OMG...
I have seen this on countless engines in countless cars with all different layouts...
This is a small amount of condensation, it is nothing to be worried about as long as the oil on the dipstick is not milky. The small amount of milky oil that is on the valve covers, an under the oil cap, will in no way effect the life of the engine, it will evaporate when the engine gets to operating temperature an is allowed to remain at operating temp for a short time.
This is not "100% avoidable", this is nature, it's called condensation and will happen regardless of where the oil fill is, or where the cooling fan is, etc. Look back at the first post, there is a BMW engine that does not use an extended oil fill, and it has this same condensation. The "problem" with this condensation is exaggerated by vehicles used exclusively for short trips, but will happen on engines used on longer trips as well, because again, this is a natural phenomenon. As air cools, it the moisture in it will separate, and be deposited on a surface, in this case the inside of the rocker covers/oil fill. This does not happen while the engine is running, but when it is shut off. As the air inside the engine warms up, it will evaporate the condensation, starting the cycle all over again. The problem gets worse when the weather turns colder during the winter months, especially in areas where snow accumulates, such as the Northern US and Canada, where the moist air is prevalent in the winter months.
I've been driving for close to 2 decades, been working on cars for longer and see this almost every winter on my cars, and many others, it has not shortened the life of the engines in those cars. The only time that would be of concern is if you see the oil on the end of the dipstick is also milky, then it would be a cause for concern.
I would imagine that you would see the frothy oil that comes out of a turbo as also a "problem"....
I guess natural phenomenon is a flaw that will need to be rectified.
I have seen this on countless engines in countless cars with all different layouts...
This is a small amount of condensation, it is nothing to be worried about as long as the oil on the dipstick is not milky. The small amount of milky oil that is on the valve covers, an under the oil cap, will in no way effect the life of the engine, it will evaporate when the engine gets to operating temperature an is allowed to remain at operating temp for a short time.
This is not "100% avoidable", this is nature, it's called condensation and will happen regardless of where the oil fill is, or where the cooling fan is, etc. Look back at the first post, there is a BMW engine that does not use an extended oil fill, and it has this same condensation. The "problem" with this condensation is exaggerated by vehicles used exclusively for short trips, but will happen on engines used on longer trips as well, because again, this is a natural phenomenon. As air cools, it the moisture in it will separate, and be deposited on a surface, in this case the inside of the rocker covers/oil fill. This does not happen while the engine is running, but when it is shut off. As the air inside the engine warms up, it will evaporate the condensation, starting the cycle all over again. The problem gets worse when the weather turns colder during the winter months, especially in areas where snow accumulates, such as the Northern US and Canada, where the moist air is prevalent in the winter months.
I've been driving for close to 2 decades, been working on cars for longer and see this almost every winter on my cars, and many others, it has not shortened the life of the engines in those cars. The only time that would be of concern is if you see the oil on the end of the dipstick is also milky, then it would be a cause for concern.
I would imagine that you would see the frothy oil that comes out of a turbo as also a "problem"....
I guess natural phenomenon is a flaw that will need to be rectified.
Last edited by Six_Shooter; 01-14-2011 at 06:32 PM.
#25
01-15-2011, 12:14 AM
As a licensed mechanic since '78 and working in the trade since '72, I've got to back Six Shooter 100%. This is normal for short drives in cold weather. The ONLY time I have ever seen water infiltration in oil because of poorly placed vents or fillers.. and it was well over 90% vent issues... was on front and rear differentials... road spray will enter the differential and turn the fluid a milky color over a period of time and this WILL ruin bearings. Getting back to the issue of the OP, I posted it before and I'll say it again...Take the vehicle out for a long run in excess of 2 hrs non stop at highway speeds and check when the engine is cool... there should be considerable less gunk in the cap, but as long as the dipstick shows the oil in the pan is the proper color, you have absolutely NOTHING to worry about.
EDinNB
EDinNB
#26
01-15-2011, 10:45 AM
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#27
01-15-2011, 08:24 PM
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#28
01-16-2011, 02:08 PM
If PCV valve location is not a factor in condensation build up in these engines, then why did Chrysler change it so many times? This engine is known to have sludge issues over the years. This is not an isolated issue. Perhaps the engine in question sat in a dealer's lot for some time, and was only started up to show prospective buyers, therefore never really reaching operating temperature. A perfect climate for condensation. I noticed in one arrangement, there were two tubes joined together, with each running from a side of the engine. This would indicate more venting was needed.