So I guess Headers are out of the Question :(
 

Ok, so I got myself all worked up about doing a full on exhaust, LT headers to high flow cats, new Y, to Magnaflow muffler, single 3" tubing all the way back... then while doing some research on the subject (so I dont sound like a total idiot) I find out that #1 there arent any LT headers for my 2500, and #2 I live in the Republic of Kalifornia with communist emissions regs, which most likely wouldnt let me run them anyways. Bummer.

So, my question is.. for the money, would it even be beneficial to still do high flow cats, new Y pipe and new muffler without the headers? And would it even be CA legal? I kind of have a feeling that the high flow cats wont do squat without the headers. Im sure a better Y pipe would help, but is it really worth it for the price? (I will also be ordering a RamHammer as soon as they are shipping to compliment whatever exhaust system I end up with.)

Secondly, to even get off my own subject here... Im doing the 4.56 gears soon, but I cant really find any info on the stock 2500 LSD that I have, or even locate any aftermarket LSD's for my 10.5" rear. Ive read all the horror stories on the 9.25 LSD's, wondering if it is the same for the 10.5?

Thanks,
John

Look into a set of edelbrock shorty headers. They are smog legal.

High flow cats are a joke. Did you know that the hemi already comes with high flow cats? It's very well kept secret.

Until you get into serious cams (and I mean BIG cams) and big valve heads, you won't see any benefit from removing the cats.

A set of shorties and a new y pipe will be a huge improvement to your exhaust flow and still keep you smog legal.

Take a reading with a Backpressure gauge kit (about $30)
through a front O2 sensor bung
of your present exhaust.

Anytime the backpressure exceeds 2 psi
on a 330+ hp engine (notice I am not using 345)
you can see gains of more than 5 hp
by reducing it to 2 psi or less

You are correct about CARB & Kalifornia (& and 14 me-too states now as well)
but if you are really serious and determined
buy the CARB certified Edelbrock shorties with their certificate and plate,
have a custom shop lengthen them to 38 or more inches on each primary
and replace the 4 into 1 merge connector
with two Y connectors
recoat the modified units
using a company like Swain, Airborn, etc

Rest assured that the longer tube header
will not increase your pollution output
anymore than the CARB certified shorties would have.

There is a small increase in NOx pollution with lower exhaust backpressure
when the throttle opening is in the 40 to 80% range
in case you care about such things
but since you are thinking about new catalytic converters anyway
your pollution will almost certainly go down.

Most factory original cats are only working a 50% efficiency by 50,000 miles
so new ones always help tremendously

Don't expect more than a 3 to 6% Torque increase
even with the LT headers

Just move. Show California you're not going to be bullied.

You can't modify the edelbrock shorties and pass smog. Part of the requirement is that the cats not be moved from their original location.

Well, it seems like you only get really minimal gains from the shorties, for the near grand i would spend getting them in there. Dont know if i can justify that to myself. thats just what ive picked up about them through reading on here, i am still no expert nor do i have real world experience. maybe ill just end up doing a y-pipe and muffler.

anyone know anything about the 10.5 LSD?

A grand? You should be able to get shortes for around $350. And they do make a difference.

I wouldn't even bother with the Y-pipe...the nature of the Y-pipe is what makes it restrictive not necessarily the pipe diameter. Shorties will show more of a gain as your mods increase...on a stock motor the gain will be minimal.

nice post there Hank.

I must be reading that wrong....

Go with the shorties, better low to mid range gains than the LTs, and there really isn't a huge difference in power between the two anyways. Most of the headers I have looked into give an 8-10% increase for the shorties and an 8-14% increase for the LTs thats really not much of a difference...

You can get a Flowmaster Y-Pipe for about $40 from Jeg's. That ain't too shabby....
It should not cost more than about $50 to get it installed.....is it worth it?

Well, I am looking more into the shorties. I see that most all the manufactures make CARB certified shorties. Now, my only set back is trying to find some that fit my 4x2 2500. If anyone has any suggestions, im all ears.

As far as the Y pipe goes. I dunno, it looks all smashed together where the 2 pipes go into 1. seems kinda restrictive to me. does anyone even make a Y pipe replacement that would hook right up to the shorties and keep my cats in the stock spot? or is that a custom fab sort of deal?

JBA makes a Y pipe that comes in the kit with their Shorties

The shape of the Y-pipe is what makes it restrictive....that's what I meant by the nature of it.

I can actually say i've never seen or heard anyone say that ever. From my experience shorties will give you between 5-10rwhp where LT's will give you 20-30rwhp with a good tune. That's a big difference. Not only are the peak numbers better but so is the curve.

First off I am not going to deny that the LT's put out more power but your numbers are a little off... Its right around a 10hp difference between the two as the shorties put out more around 10-15rwhp NOT 5, and when you sit and look at it 10hp is really not that much of a difference. And the only noticeable difference between the two would be around the 5000 rpm range in which the LT's will then out perform the Shorties, but how often are you ever in the 5000rpm range?

for a reliable shorty header power gain estimate
it is worthwhile to look at
and read about
the Hemi 6.1 factory header design:

http://ask.autoblog.com/2006/02/20/a...-7-and-6-1-v8/

great cut-away pictures,
huh?

Not too sure where you come up with this information, but LT's in any scenerio will produce more power and torque at any rpm than shorties, Especially in the lower rpm range. I think if you do some research you will find that out. Maybe on a 4cylinder honda a shorty is better because the amount of air being pushed through is no where near as much as a v6 or v8.
When you go to a tube diamter that is extraodinarily large, then it may suffer low end loss, but never have I heard before LT's will make less power on the low end than shorties. Never have I come accross shorties that made 15 real hp. Maybe crank HP but certainly not real rwhp. Every vehicle i ever put LT's on created atleast 20rwhp and 20rwtq through the entire rpm range.

The tube length of a LT header is key to performance. The longer the primary, the better off you will be as it removes heat away from the cylinder head cooling it much faster tus creating more power. Also, the firecone in a LT header can be of more consistency and larger than with shorty headers because the lack of room.

Most shorty headers aren't equal length and this creates a mild turbulence at the firecone collector. LT headers have such a long primary tube, by the time the air gets to the firecone, the back pressure is so low at the heads, it doesn't make a huge impact like the shorties do.

The rule of thumb is this: Shorties are a mild gain and barely noticeable on stock equipt vehicles. The exhaust tone is slightly changed.
Mid-length headers provide much better low-mid torque than shorties and are the best solution if LT's aren't available. Drawback is you need to spend $$$$ to buy the much needed y-pipe to go with them and not every company makes middies.
LT's are the best solution for any car. Stock or modified. Unlike shorties that create max power out of the box at a whopping 5-10rwhp, LT's you will see more HP/TQ increase as engine power improves. Stock engine gains will range from 10-25rwhp/15-30rwtq and when you modify your engine the gaind can be upwards of 40rwhp and 50rwtq.


With all that said, here is a Nice header solution and affordable for the Dodge Ram 4x4. I'm thinking of getting it myself
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...2BSI%26otn%3D4

Maybe thats what Im thinking of then, cause all the ones I have looked at for my truck have needed a new Y pipe to go with them...

Nice post Dirty..

nice post indeed dirtydog.. that is alot of great info. If i could find something like whats in your link for my 4x2 2500 in mid or short tube and keeps me smog legal in CA i would jump all over it.

well, i found a set of JBA cat4ward shorty headers, comes with a y pipe. you check em out Right Here

It says they fit the 4x2 2500. i guess i would just have to have my cats and 02 sensors welded in. Im just not too sure how that would work out. seems like my y pipe and aftermarket y's are pretty different.

$929???? IS that the final price including shipping? If not your paying about $100 more than you should have to, unless its because yours is a 2500... Noguess not, look around there are far better deals than that out there for those headers with the Y pipe included. This is where I will be getting mine done for christmas

http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/e...4246_4249.html

And just for the hell of it I'll have them do a dyno run before and after the headers are installed in a few weeks just to see what all they actually do for it.... Their shop techs are out til the 8th on vacation, so mine will be done shortly after that

JBA is a quality product and their fircone is patented! Their shortied provide the best power gain you could ask for, while still falling short og midlength, they are a great header. I was certain that JBA is a direct fit for stock headers. I was unaware that you needed an additional Y-pipe.
Also, JBA's website is by far the cheapest price I have found, which for some reason is ass backwards than most large companies. Most of the time if you buy direct, it's much more expensive, but I checked prices out on JBA's website and they were far cheaper than elswhere. A nice set of JBA's that aren't crazily coated with all the bells and whistles should run you about $450-$550 for the pair. I can't remember if they come with gaskets, but I have always been a fan of and used Percy's gaskets for the headers. Best gasket I have ever used!

$930 for 10hp is not a good deal. just get a set of SRT8 factory headers and have your Y-pipe modded to fit them.

This is the exact set you need. Follow the auction. Great deal http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200...4&toolid=10001 http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200...4&toolid=10001 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Ram-03-1500-5-7L-2WD-JBA-Cat4ward-Headers_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6755QQihZ017QQi temZ270306427928QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


Don't get all caught up i the special coatings they offer as in the 5sj endings and so forth. The set you made the link to has silver ceramic coating on it. Just get the regular stainless and call it a day! Ceramic is nice, but I would only get that on LT's because of the length of the primaries.

Sadly mids aren't CARB certed either...anything that moves the cats from their stock location is an auto failure. Sad but true. Go here to find parts that are carb certed

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...es/amquery.php

Is it just me or do those headers look used? That isn't a big deal except the seller is saying they've never been installed.

thanks for all the input and links guys. i have learned a great deal from all your wisdom, and through my couple days of research.

I called up JBA and talked to a guy named Dustin. He was really cool. gave me all the part #s id need for a full on JBA setup (shorty headers with down pipes, Y pipe, 3" cat back and nice tip all stainless steel and CARB certified). then we chit chatted a bit, and he gave me contact info for some of his dealers in my area, and some of his online dealers. he said to drop his name and get them to give me a good packaged deal. Turns out the main JBA Performance center is right down the street from where I live! I talked to them and they said theyd give me all the parts for $1000 and would install for 300-400.

now, looking up all the parts online and comparing the quote he gave me it was a pretty decent discount..... if i end up doing the JBA setup. I dont know about that labor price though. might check around some see if i cant find a better price. but it would be a piece of mind having a JBA center install the new JBA setup.

Yea $300-400 is pretty high considering they're just bolting on your headers/Y and a little fab work for the catback...hell maybe not even that if they're selling you a pre-made catback.

Headers are a piece of cake on the Hemi, do it yourself. Even though I welded mine, most headers now a days are bolt on (as are most after market exhausts).
You can get to EVERYTHING from underneath and inside the wheel wells with only having to remove the plastic well liners, tires can even stay on and actually make a nice little work bench.
I'd go for the ceramic coat, and not the cheesy factory one. Buy you headers in uncoated and unpainted stainless and find a good, local, reputable coating shop to coat them inside & out. If you don't know of a shop, ask the Harley owners, as they always know the chrome shops and most places that chrome plate also do ceramic coating. It only added about $125 to the cost of my LT's had I gotten them with the factory coat and the custom coat is 10x better. A few minutes after turning off the truck while the temp of my cats is still over 600 degrees, I can lay my hand on on the ceramic coated headers.

Attachment 113925

if you go ahead with the install from JBA
consider doing a
before and after test
for free using

http://www.bgsoflex.com/dyno.html

hhmmm, maybe i will do the install myself.... what all would i need? just a torque wrench, basic hand tools and a jack w/stands? if i did that i would just have to take it in the get the new y pipe welded in... and i do have access to a lift, which might make the exhaust easier.