Had to replace the timing cover gasket on my 2005 hemi Ram. Things went well until I re-assembled the harmonic balancer. Embarrassed to admit that I am a mechanical engineer.... Rather than using the approved install tool, I oiled up the crank snout and balancer, lined it up, and gently hammered it on using a block of wood. Once it had moved enough to get 2-3 threads of the bolt started, I used the breaker bar to spin the bolt down (this is the original bolt. It's not clear to me if this is a torque to yield that I should have replaced or not...). I even alternated between hitting it with the hammer and tightening the bolt a couple of times just to make sure I was not galling the threads. The bolt was spinning down as well as could be expected. Once it stated to take more effort, I broke out the torque wrench and set it to 250lb. Wrench clicked, and I though I was done. Looked up and noticed the balancer was not lined up with the power steering pulley. Though I might have caught a burr between the balancer and crank snout, so I started taking it back apart to see what was up. Start loosening the crank bolt with the breaker bar, and after 1/2 turn, it started taking MORE effort to unbolt it! I alternated back and forth a couple of times between tightening and loosening, hoping to break it loose, but no luck. That bolt is seized to the crank pretty good. I'm afraid to keep working on it as I am putting so much force into trying to turn it, the bolt might break off.

1st option. I was hoping to get the bolt out and chase the threads with a tap, and use new bolt and see if it would take the torque.
2nd option was to hopefully get the bolt out, and drill and tap for a Timesert. Not looking forward to that, but I have the skills and room to get it done.
3rd option is to leave the balancer alone, and shim out the power steering pump and possibly the pulleys, even though the alternator and ac pump are not able to be shimmed.
4th- bolt breaks off. Try to drill it out the broken bolt.
5th - pull the crank and replace (not interested in this AT ALL!)

I'm actually leaning towards option 3 as a stopgap and see how long the belt will last with a misalignment.

Any advice appreciated.

 

How many ribs on the belt is the crank pull off? Is it on straight at least? If so and if you are one or two ribs off, leave that **** as it is and drive it.

 

Locktite or JB weld the threads, or re-tap, its not something you want to bandaid, fix it.


I'd use heat on that crank snout & bolt for a good 3 minutes, then attempt to unbolt it using an impact, if that fails use a breaker bar (after re-heating of course). A simple $5 propane torch from a hardware store will do the trick. Worst case scenario you have to drill the bolt out...if it comes to that use a reverse bit.

When you install the balancers/crank pulley you really should take a propane torch & heat the center of it up for a good minute or two so that it installs like butter, and then use a impact to install the bolt & get the balancer line up to where it needs to be. After doing timing belts on many Neons through the years & breaking many pullers, I've become very good at removing & installing these balancers, heat is your best friend for removal and installation, but beware on some balancers they have rubber lined between the center of the balancer and the pulley race and applying heat could destroy the rubber, with that said the Hemi doesn't have that, so you don't need to worry.

Once thing you have going for you is that the Hemi is internally balanced, with that said I'd remove the balancer & try again, re-tap the snout & locktite it if you don't have enough threads or aren't confident in the fit.

 

not sure what you mean here. Loctite, JB weld or re-tap only?

I would never recommend to someone to use JB Weld for threads that are supposed to hold 250ft-lbs. If you are fixing a broken boss in an aluminum engine case that holds a small bracket, JB works good for that.


I forgot to mention that I did heat up the ID of the HB before putting it back on. As long as you keep it in the heat range that you can still stand to touch it for a couple of seconds. You have to be concerned about that heat going into the rubber ring on the HB as well as the crank seal of the timing cover.

The stock balancer on my truck does have the rubber ring. I've never seen a modern HB without the rubber ring. The main job of the HB other than external balance (not the case of the Hemi), power take off to engine accessories, is to have that rubber interface and outer mass of a ring to help dampen nasty harmonics that can cause increased wear in the bearings/seals and possibly even break off the crank snout.

 

I'll have to get a straightedge across it, but it looked to be 1 to 1.5 ribs off.

 

I was wrong about it not having the rubber, but to be honest I never had to deal with a 5.7 Hemi damper as of yet, I think I got that impression from looking at under drive pulleys a few months back that did not have the rubber ring. All 3rd Gen Hemi engines are internally balanced, the balancer does little to nothing to rid the engine of harmonics as a result, as long as the balancer itself is balanced to itself it will not affect the internal balance of the engine nor the harmonics. If this were a externally balanced 360/5.9 or 73+ 440 I'd be a little more worried about screwing around with the front of the crank doing things like heli coil and re-tapping the snout.


You mentioned that you're worried about heat wrecking the timing cover seal, but at this point in time I think its more important that you get that bolt out of the snout & clean it with a tap, its far more important than any timing cover seal. Also, I don't know where you're getting the 250 ft lbs of torque on that damper bolt, its 130ft lbs to secure the damper, but personally I'd use a impact to install it electric or air powered and not be worried.


As for the lock tite & JB weld, I recommended them as something to help fortify the threads if you end up stripping the crank threads out & re-tapping & heli coil, they do make various kinds that do a great job on steel & have impressive loading. It may be 130 lbs of torque on that bolt, but I assure you as long as there is any force on that thing from a bolt (anything over 50 ft lbs +) the damper isn't coming off especially with locktite, just think of how tough it can sometimes be to get a damper off with a puller!, I've broken 3 3 jaw pullers in one night on a damper on a Neon and the 4th puller I used was a Snap On fine thread puller with heat and finally got the job done.


With the Hemi being internally balanced and a locktite bolt on the damper, you will have ZERO problems. Heat that bolt up and get it out of there, timing cover seal be damned. I've done this several times and have not had one seal leak, you don't need to get the crank snout cherry red, just apply heat evenly around the snout, and if you can shock the bolt head with ice making sure not to cool off the snout it may help the bolt shrink just enough to be driven out easily as the snout is still hot & expanding ever so slightly.

I've accidently loosened crank bolts on several cars & trucks while torqueing/or removing transmission flex plate bolts (hold the crank still with a breaker bar & torque the converter bolts with a wrench is what I was doing) and specifically on my 285,000 mile 98 Neon and have just torqued it down to what felt like 40-50ft lbs and called it good without any locktite. I'm proud to say that in the last 80,000 miles the crank pulley is still holding strong and my friends 360 Ram still didn't throw a balancer in 6 years. Its probably the most over rated bolt to torque because of the close tolerances of the fit, and especially with the Hemi being internally balanced there really is nothing to worry about in the 1/4 of a 1 percent chance it'd fly off and I'm probably being generous by giving it a 1/4 of a percent chance of happening. You'd have a better chance of getting yourself pregnant by spraying Axe body spray on your girl than that crank damper from flying off.


Sorry if my post is redundant in places, I've had a long night lol

 

a modern internally balanced engine requires a harmonic damper to survive. As the engine goes through different rpm ranges, there are harmonics (vibrations) that build up and dissipate at different speeds. It would be way too expensive if not impossible to build a engine that has to operate in a 700 - 7000 rpm range where the crank snout extends far beyond it's bearing supports while trying to deal with the mass of pistons/rods accelerating/decelerating inside the engine and not have some sort of damper. The outer mass of the harmonic damper and the layer of rubber IS what keeps the crank from vibrating at different speeds and destroying the engine.

I would never use a heli coil type of insert in his situation either, but any of the solid bodied types of inserts (timesert, keensert, etc...) is recommended and totally acceptable.

I'm sad to hear that I only needed 130 ft-lbs to torque the bolt to. Now that I think about the size of the bolt, 250 does seem high. I was using a software that my son has access to in his auto mechanics class for instructions to remove/install the timing cover.

It' humbling to realize that my own mistakes just caused a heap of pain to get my truck running again....

 

I'll take pics if you want my mine is the second as yours and same problem. This is why after my last cam swap I didn't change out to a different cam. I didn't want to mess with that bolt and have to pull the engine. My balancer is off 2 ribs and I've been riding it that way for years.

 

COOL. I already traced out and rough cut two pieces of aluminum for shims behind the power steering pump. I think I will install these since the PS is so close to the crank, and let the rest of it ride. I was also thinking about drilling the head of the crank bolt and safety wiring the bolt on. I will be able to sleep at night if I do this.

 

Why are you shimming the rest of your accessories? cannot believe that you're going to let a crank bolt defeat you. That would make torqueing the crank bolt to 250 just the second dumbest idea you had this week. I'm out of here, I can't handle this.


I could have fixed your truck in under an hour. You are massively overthinking this.