P0303 and 05 auto-clear?
#1
11-15-2017, 05:47 PM
P0303 and 05 auto-clear?
Romped on the truck coming home from work, and threw codes for holes 3 and 5. I didn't feel it misfire, so i think it's an electronic thing. All 4 O2's are rather new-ish NTK, but I recall having this same issue before the trans failed, I parked it, and did the powerglide swap. That's the only O2 sensor without an extension, so it's not a wiring issue down there. 1/3/5 are all 1 hole apart on the firing order, so it's not cross-firing in the cap. 3 and 5 plug wires are nowhere near eachother, so it's not inductively firing (MSD 8.5 wires). Will it self-clear?
#3
11-15-2017, 06:27 PM
#4
11-15-2017, 07:17 PM
50 state emissions (2001). I have 28 more days to pass texas OBDII inspection. I'm not sure if it will pass with light off and codes present?
#5
11-15-2017, 09:20 PM
#6
11-15-2017, 09:54 PM
I had the P0300, 301, 303, 305 problem, random misfires without any actual misfire. All bank 1 (on the 3.9L) I was hoping it wasn't a head gasket, usually it would start at 303, then 305, then SOMETIMES 301. The codes would show up pretty reliably over 70~mph (over 2k rpm in OD) , if I kept it under 65 (under 2k rpm in locked OD), the codes would eventually go back to pending and turn the CEL off. I'm thinking the PCM does misfire checks over 2k rpms, which you are in your video.
Final solution for me? I pulled a mopar crank sensor from one at a junkyard (told them it was a temp sensor and got charged $4), tossed it in... misfire 1,3,5 code vanished and hasn't come back, even when running it ~80+mph. Emissions for me passes as long as the CEL isn't lit, and all readiness monitors are set to ready. As I recall, older than 2000 allows 2 failed readiness monitors, newer only allows 1, at least in my area.
I would say snag a crank sensor from a wrecked dakota (they're the same on every Magnum, 3.9, 5.2, or 5.9, NOT the 3.7/4.7 Powertechs), toss it in, unhook the battery to clear, then take it for a hard spin for ~30 miles and see if the light comes back. If so, possibly check the CAM sensor under the distributor.
Final solution for me? I pulled a mopar crank sensor from one at a junkyard (told them it was a temp sensor and got charged $4), tossed it in... misfire 1,3,5 code vanished and hasn't come back, even when running it ~80+mph. Emissions for me passes as long as the CEL isn't lit, and all readiness monitors are set to ready. As I recall, older than 2000 allows 2 failed readiness monitors, newer only allows 1, at least in my area.
I would say snag a crank sensor from a wrecked dakota (they're the same on every Magnum, 3.9, 5.2, or 5.9, NOT the 3.7/4.7 Powertechs), toss it in, unhook the battery to clear, then take it for a hard spin for ~30 miles and see if the light comes back. If so, possibly check the CAM sensor under the distributor.
Last edited by Skreelink; 11-15-2017 at 09:58 PM.
#7
11-15-2017, 10:49 PM
Skree, I was kinda thinking to go get a dealer sensor. It has an O'Reilly sensor right now I think.
Found this: Page 2,233: Chapter 25, Emissions Control, page 20:
Found this: Page 2,233: Chapter 25, Emissions Control, page 20:
Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs)
With OBD II, different DTC faults have different priorities according to regulations. As a result, the priorities determine MIL illumination and DTC era- sure. DTCs are entered according to individual prior- ity. DTCs with a higher priority overwrite lower priority DTCs.
Priorities
• Priority 0 —Non-emissions related trouble codes
• Priority 1 — One trip failure of a two trip fault for non-fuel system and non-misfire.
• Priority 2 — One trip failure of a two trip fault for fuel system (rich/lean) or misfire.
• Priority 3 — Two trip failure for a non-fuel sys- tem and non-misfire or matured one trip comprehen- sive component fault.
• Priority 4 — Two trip failure or matured fault for fuel system (rich/lean) and misfire or one trip cat- alyst damaging misfire.
Non-emissions related failures have no priority. One trip failures of two trip faults have low priority. Two trip failures or matured faults have higher pri- ority. One and two trip failures of fuel system and misfire monitor take precedence over non-fuel system and non-misfire failures.
DTC Self Erasure
With one trip components or systems, the MIL is illuminated upon test failure and DTCs are stored. Two trip monitors are components requiring failure in two consecutive trips for MIL illumination. Upon failure of the first test, the Task Manager enters a maturing code. If the component fails the test for a second time the code matures and a DTC is set. After three good trips the MIL is extinguished and the Task Manager automatically switches the trip counter to a warm-up cycle counter. DTCs are auto- matically erased following 40 warm-up cycles if the component does not fail again.
For misfire and fuel system monitors, the component must pass the test under a Similar Conditions Window in order to record a good trip. A Similar Con- ditions Window is when engine RPM is within ±375 RPM and load is within ±10% of when the fault occurred.
NOTE: It is important to understand that a component does not have to fail under a similar window of operation to mature. It must pass the test under a Similar Conditions Window when it failed to record a Good Trip for DTC erasure for misfire and fuel system monitors.
With OBD II, different DTC faults have different priorities according to regulations. As a result, the priorities determine MIL illumination and DTC era- sure. DTCs are entered according to individual prior- ity. DTCs with a higher priority overwrite lower priority DTCs.
Priorities
• Priority 0 —Non-emissions related trouble codes
• Priority 1 — One trip failure of a two trip fault for non-fuel system and non-misfire.
• Priority 2 — One trip failure of a two trip fault for fuel system (rich/lean) or misfire.
• Priority 3 — Two trip failure for a non-fuel sys- tem and non-misfire or matured one trip comprehen- sive component fault.
• Priority 4 — Two trip failure or matured fault for fuel system (rich/lean) and misfire or one trip cat- alyst damaging misfire.
Non-emissions related failures have no priority. One trip failures of two trip faults have low priority. Two trip failures or matured faults have higher pri- ority. One and two trip failures of fuel system and misfire monitor take precedence over non-fuel system and non-misfire failures.
DTC Self Erasure
With one trip components or systems, the MIL is illuminated upon test failure and DTCs are stored. Two trip monitors are components requiring failure in two consecutive trips for MIL illumination. Upon failure of the first test, the Task Manager enters a maturing code. If the component fails the test for a second time the code matures and a DTC is set. After three good trips the MIL is extinguished and the Task Manager automatically switches the trip counter to a warm-up cycle counter. DTCs are auto- matically erased following 40 warm-up cycles if the component does not fail again.
For misfire and fuel system monitors, the component must pass the test under a Similar Conditions Window in order to record a good trip. A Similar Con- ditions Window is when engine RPM is within ±375 RPM and load is within ±10% of when the fault occurred.
NOTE: It is important to understand that a component does not have to fail under a similar window of operation to mature. It must pass the test under a Similar Conditions Window when it failed to record a Good Trip for DTC erasure for misfire and fuel system monitors.
Last edited by magnethead; 11-15-2017 at 10:52 PM.
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#8
11-15-2017, 11:07 PM
You know what, this is starting to make sense now!
The tone ring is rather complicated. It has 3 sets of double holes, and 3 single holes.
hole.........hole.hole..........hole.........hole. hole..........hole.........hole.hole..........
Wondering if the 'cheap' box store sensors are misfiring on the double holes..not fast enough to catch the very brief bar between them. As I recall, the holes are 5 degrees wide. They would also explain why the issues occur more often at high RPM, as the period of time that small bar occupies gets smaller. V8 flexplates don't have this feature, thus why it's not a common code for them.
2,000 RPM = 720,000 degrees per minute = 12,000 degrees per second.
5 degrees @ 12,000 degrees/second = 0.000416 seconds for that bar.
The tone ring is rather complicated. It has 3 sets of double holes, and 3 single holes.
hole.........hole.hole..........hole.........hole. hole..........hole.........hole.hole..........
Wondering if the 'cheap' box store sensors are misfiring on the double holes..not fast enough to catch the very brief bar between them. As I recall, the holes are 5 degrees wide. They would also explain why the issues occur more often at high RPM, as the period of time that small bar occupies gets smaller. V8 flexplates don't have this feature, thus why it's not a common code for them.
2,000 RPM = 720,000 degrees per minute = 12,000 degrees per second.
5 degrees @ 12,000 degrees/second = 0.000416 seconds for that bar.
Last edited by magnethead; 11-15-2017 at 11:13 PM.
#9
11-16-2017, 06:33 AM
#10
11-16-2017, 09:42 PM
Local dealer had it in stock. Code went pending between work and the dealer, light came on on the way home...all but one I/M had gone ready so I could have passed if not for the pesky light.
Came home, put the sensor in it, went 20 miles on the highway rolling 3000-3500 RPM at 60-65 MPH and no pending codes. Dropped the old stock transmission at a friend's place, had 3 I/M not ready. Came back same way, still no pending codes but down to 2 I/M not ready. Think it was EVAP and O2 Heater, and the heater should reset after sitting overnight and driving it to work.
EVAP is a complete unknown since I relocated all the front-end stuff into the fender, and moved the charcoal box back behind the LR tire. I'm hoping that *IF* it does try to cycle, it will work properly and not try to throw a code.
Came home, put the sensor in it, went 20 miles on the highway rolling 3000-3500 RPM at 60-65 MPH and no pending codes. Dropped the old stock transmission at a friend's place, had 3 I/M not ready. Came back same way, still no pending codes but down to 2 I/M not ready. Think it was EVAP and O2 Heater, and the heater should reset after sitting overnight and driving it to work.
EVAP is a complete unknown since I relocated all the front-end stuff into the fender, and moved the charcoal box back behind the LR tire. I'm hoping that *IF* it does try to cycle, it will work properly and not try to throw a code.