I would agree with Herb7472 that to do so would be sitting yourself up for a lawsuit in the event of an accident. However, you could minimize your liability by applying for a reconstruction title. Generally that refers to a vehicle which has been wrecked and totaled by an insurance company and then reconstructed by using parts from a number of vehicles. I believe in PA this requires the vehicle being inspected and tested before a new title is issued which in this case would indicate the brake system was redesigned. However, likewise I don't think it would be worth it. The ESP and braking system is integrated into the way the vehicle handles on curves and turns in addition to straight braking in a panic stop and you would be losing that by downgrading.

 

I read through this whole thread. There are cases here where ESP is turned off, calipers are new and pads are ground for clearance and lubricated yet brakes are stuck and overheating on level road just days after the rebuild work.

I think more folks need to be looking into collapsed flex hoses as one other fellow pointed out. External visual inspection will tell you nothing. This phenomenon was quite common in the 80's and the problem may have returned in 2010. The hose inner ply can split inside at the crimp point, then delaminate and totally collapse inside. This causes them to work like a one-way fluid valve. When this happens brake pedal pressure will push fluid through to apply brakes, but there is not sufficient bleed back pressure to allow pistons to relax when the pedal is released. Under this scenario the fluid pressure builds up and becomes trapped in the caliper long after the brake is applied.

 

My 3rd anniversary is this week for my 2010 grand caravan and I have gone through both front and rear brakes twice and now this week they want me to replace them again, no warranty 1 grand to fix. They say it is normal to have brake issue every year. Did this happen to anyone else? 55,000, klm'S

 

Don't feel too bad mmacdougall, I'm here again to relate my brake issues.
I had the rear brakes done at 27,000km (16,000 miles) on my 2011 Dodge Grand Caravan
Took it in to my in to my dealer at 44,000 Km (~26,400 miles)
The bill came to just over $1100.00 for rear rotors and disk brake pads and new front rotors and pads, along with a brake fluid flush. Apparently overheated.
So it appears that I can expect to replace the rear brakes every 18,000 to 20,000 Km, even though most of my driving is on the highway.
Too bad, I guess it'll something different to replace it.
Live and Learn.

 

The overheating is likely caused by improper service, not a flawed design. They are just throwing a set of pads on in 5 minutes. The separate step to flush brake fluid does not address rusted caliper mounting hardware. This issue could crop up with any model or brand of car, although certain systems in some cars are more tolerant of service steps being skipped. The mechanic likely skipped the step where slider pins are removed from the backing plates to be inspected, cleaned and greased. If any rust is found inside the pin hole or on the slider pins, the rubber boots are likely ripped and need replaced. The slider pin and boot kit costs a whopping $12 per wheel. If it's not on your invoice, go back and insist that they change them and grease the mechanism. Me, I take a drill bit and spin it by hand in the slider pin hole to clean the rusty gunk out, then apply grease. The used pins were cleaned to like new using a stainless brush wheel on a stationary grinder. A couple of them looked like they were on the floor of the ocean for a decade, covered with lumps of rust. One was frozen solid and required a large wrench to work it loose!! This is because their respective rubber boots had small cracks in them. The rubber parts deteriorate in the presence of elevated temps and this compounds the rust, sticking and overheat problem. I checked each rubber boot by filling it with grease and squeezing it to see if anything leaks out. I bought a bunch of boots and pins, so now I have a few spares for the next job.

If this prep step is skipped during brake job, you might as well buy a boatload of rotors and pads because the brakes are partially engaged 24/7. This costs hundreds $$ in wasted gas too. Mechanics like to skip this pin/slider clean & grease step because it doubles the labor effort but they get no more money in their pocket. They get paid for the brake job and flush.

My '08 had rusted & sticking slider pins on every wheel and I fixed them myself. Pad and rotor wear will no longer be accelerated. I caught and fixed the problem BEFORE the rotors and pads were destroyed.

 

what a lemon. I got 2010 dodge caravan for my wife and kids. After 2 years 50 k and now my 4rth brake job my wife and kids don't find it safe enough. They have had the brakes lock up grinding noises and burning smell plus a constant squealling noise. Now that I have complained after each time only to get told that they fixed the problem and didn't know my warranty is up. So if you know anyone looking to buy a2010 dodge caravan please let me know. Because I have no interest in driving minivan. Chrysler Canada won't stand behind their defective parts, I guess they wait until a serious injury occurs before they will recall their defective items. I think it's time to get the media involved and do some investigative reporting on the lack of concern and defective auto parts that Chrysler is using.

 

Oh Tink, you poor unfortuate soul. Please read close and learn how to correct this issue:

Your mechanic is a lemon tard, not the vehicle. I advise you to find somebody willing to perform a 1 hr brake job in an hour instead of 15 minutes. Better yet, hand them a copy of my post to get the point across. Sliding/floating caliper systems need proper service procedure followed or the brakes will drag, wear out prematurely and cause reduced gas mileage. This is what is causing your grinding, squealing and burning. The calipers are froze and dragging because the floating caliper mechanisms are not being properly serviced. The calipers are simply not floating anymore. Two problems happen, the caliper will not float to self-senter and/or the pads will not relax (reset) after the brake pedal is released. Both issues are caused by rust buildup due to lack of lubrication in the floating caliper mechanism or slidr sping grooves. This either happens when the mechanic fails to clean these parts with a steel brush wheel and grease them or the rubber boots (which cost about $2 each) become cracked and/or nobody bothers to checks them for leaks so water gets into the sealed pin slide mechanism. The mechanic is just throwing rotors and pads on it to maximize profits.

A jerk will throw pads and rotors on in 15 minutes and line his pockets with your money, then await your prompt return for another set. Figure 10K mi lifecycle or so and about 2mpg less every day due to perpetual brake drag.

An honest mechanic will take an extra 15 minutes to properly clean and grease and reuse the sliding mechanism parts or install a $12 replacement spring and factory slider pin and boot kit. He will also use a torque wrench on the rear system bolts per procedure to avoid binding. Figure about 40K mi lifecycle with great gas mileage and no brake overheat or fade.

I checked and rebuilt my brakes shortly after buying a used caravan, so I know EXACTLY what a shoddy mechanic can do....or not lol. They were a mess, due to improper service procedure. It was clear they were installing pads and rotors again and again, but not servicing the sliding caliper mechanisms. Most mechanics are inherently lazy and skip labor steps to maximize profit. They can easily double their salary by using such methods. Some sliding caliper systems can tolerate a significant level of neglect, the Caravan can't. This is because the pins are not made of stainless steel, so they rust, if rubber boots are cracked or no grease is applied per procedure. The typicl penny-pinching consumer will bitch when hardware charges are on the bill that go beyond just pads and rotors. Unfortunately the separate hard parts kits need purchased to avoid these issues. We're talking a whopping $20-$30 per vehicle for these so-called "extra" parts. Believe me, they aren't optional. If these extra parts aren't on your bill or shopping list, you have NO CHANCE.

PS: The Dodge parts are NOT defective, so I understand the mfr's position (Chrysler of Canada) wrt warranty replacement. I couldn't get my calipers to move with a c-clamp and hammer. I had to use a pair of vice grips to work the pins loose. The sliding caliper mechanisms clearly did't see a drop of lube for the last 5 yrs (since new) and one rubber boot was ripped, letting water in. I can only guess how many sets of rotors and pads were thrown on by the poor, uninformed former owner. I do my own brake work so I can assure you my problems are OVER for good. I don't take short-cuts lol.

 

@Lscman: thank you for your posts. My wife drives a 23month old 2011 Dodge Grand Caravan at 30,000km and I have noticed about 3 or 4 times in the past 2 months a strange burning odour after long trips (30+ minutes) [she never notices these sort of things and I rarely drive it so I'm glad I caught it doing it!]. Yesterday I went around the vehicle and found that it was emanating from the rear passenger side brakes. I have a friend who has always replaced the pads/rotors on my '99 Grand Am every 3-5 years (they last a long time on there, very little issues), but I have not done any relubing or maintenance on this Caravan's braking system. Lesson learned! I am an amateur at this stuff but I am taking my winter tires off tonight on my own so I will take a look at the brakes as well to see if they appear to be in rough/rusty shape [I still need to google some images/videos to see exactly what I should be looking for - if anyone can post links to photos/vids I would appreciate it, otherwise I'm sure I can find this info somewhere out there already]. I will have to get a friend to help me take them apart in the coming few days as I plan on bringing the van in for an oil change and to get the front brake pads hopefully replaced under warranty as I also just noticed the front driver side brake is now squealing when driving occasionally, and it stops when the brake is applied, so I assume this is the just the brake wear indicator stating the pads are worn, and I guess for front pads at 30,000km with such a heavy load that this is probably normal. And since there is an extended 2yr 40,000km warranty on these (received letter from Chrysler Canada) that it will be covered since I am just at 23months and 30,000km. But as for the rear brake heating/burning issue I'm going to be on my own to figure that one out as I'm sure it'll be $1000+ CDN to repair that at a dealership lol... I plan on getting an estimate for the rear ones next week as well just for the hell of it but since it's not under warranty I'm likely going to have to figure out how to replace them on my own [or find a trustworthy mechanic in the Barrie, Ontario area - my previous awesome mechanic moved away 8 months ago ]

It's very interesting to see all these posts (I read through this whole thread and a few other threads as well).

Again, thank you Lscman and everyone else for this very useful thread. Please keep the useful info and posts coming in too!

 

Bit of an update. I didn't take the calipers off so measurements aren't perfect... but my front brake pads appeared to be; front driver outside 9mm / inside 8mm, front passenger outside 9mm / inside 8mm (hopefully this makes sense). Rear I could only measure the outside pads, both sides were 6mm, which was strange, I expected to see considerably more wear on the rear passenger side pad vs the driver side since that is the one that has been burning/heating up. Perhaps the inside pad is more worn, but I could not tell without taking them out to measure. Also I expected the front brakes to be worse than the rears... but perhaps the rear pads are thinner to begin with than the fronts? I need to find that out still...

So I guess this width is alright for now... and that they don't need to be replaced yet... not sure why I hear squealing in the front breaks occasionally when they appear to not be too worn out.

I guess my best bet is to take the calipers off, clean the pins/sliders or whatever they're called and lube them up (never seize I guess?).

Below are links to photos... please feel free to comment on them and the visible wear and tear of the brakes

Front Driver #1 | Front Driver #2 | Front Driver #3
Front Passenger #1 | Front Passenger #2 | Front Passenger #3 | Front Passenger #4
Rear Driver #1 | Rear Driver #2 | Rear Driver #3

 

he is not totally wroing here. Chrysler has built in a defect to these yrs. given that the proper maintenance of the pads and sliders are done but I still caint believe they send letter stating every 20,000km you need to maintain. ive had vehicles with 60+ km and not touched brakes given that it should been done but the system built properly to begin with. I not sure someone meantioned that Chrysler has new clips that suppossively help pads to return back. I have been cleaning mine now for about 20k and notice rust builds under the clips.