Need help fast
Record Breaker
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RE: Need help fast
It sounds like a short. Pull the ASD relay and check again. Is the light out (or voltage)? If ok, plug relay back in and disconnect the crank sensor. put key on, is light on?
Do you have a schematic of this system? It sounds like you know what byou are doing and I don't mean to spoon feed this info.but without a proper diagram, you will not be able to complete this on your own. That is of course without lots of unplug this and check thats.
If you do have a schematic, look to a short on that pin or why your signal is still present with the engine off (key in the on poss), you should have a flash once (the ASD relay should only remain energized if the controller senses a crankshatf position sensor signal immediatley after detecting the crankshatft sensor signal).
Do you have a schematic of this system? It sounds like you know what byou are doing and I don't mean to spoon feed this info.but without a proper diagram, you will not be able to complete this on your own. That is of course without lots of unplug this and check thats.
If you do have a schematic, look to a short on that pin or why your signal is still present with the engine off (key in the on poss), you should have a flash once (the ASD relay should only remain energized if the controller senses a crankshatf position sensor signal immediatley after detecting the crankshatft sensor signal).
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RE: Need help fast
we can get any schmatic we need. But what should we check and where???
When we pull the ASD relay, do we still want to look at the coil driver wires and a test light, if no light, then no short???
do we pull the crank sensor at the same time as pulling the ASD relay?
we don't have light on the test light on the coil wires with engine off, just with engine cranking.
When we pull the ASD relay, do we still want to look at the coil driver wires and a test light, if no light, then no short???
do we pull the crank sensor at the same time as pulling the ASD relay?
we don't have light on the test light on the coil wires with engine off, just with engine cranking.
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RE: Need help fast
okay man here we go...
we were told that we had to hook the test light up to battery positive since the coil driver wires are tehcnically ground wires.
So with it set up like that, we have light with no crank and ASD pulled, light stays on when cranking and ASD pulled.
Light is on when crank sensor is pulled but when cranking the light goes off.
sooo...now i'm confused.
if the test light was hooked to ground, no light with ASD unplugged key off, no light when cranking. stays lit when cranking with crank sensor pulled.
where should we start looking, that is a short right?
we were told that we had to hook the test light up to battery positive since the coil driver wires are tehcnically ground wires.
So with it set up like that, we have light with no crank and ASD pulled, light stays on when cranking and ASD pulled.
Light is on when crank sensor is pulled but when cranking the light goes off.
sooo...now i'm confused.
if the test light was hooked to ground, no light with ASD unplugged key off, no light when cranking. stays lit when cranking with crank sensor pulled.
where should we start looking, that is a short right?
Record Breaker
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RE: Need help fast
Ok here is the entire "Failure To Start Test" for a 97 Intrepid/ Concord/ LHS/ Vision. Follow this first and see where it leads you. Let me know.
FAILURE-TO-START TEST
See Figure 1
This no-start test checks the camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor. Refer to the ignition coil tests before commencing with this test, much time may be saved if the problem lies within the coil.
The PCM supplies 8.0 volts to the camshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensor through one circuit. If the 8.0 volt supply circuit shorts to ground, neither sensor will produce a signal (output voltage to the PCM).
When the ignition key is turned and left in the ON position, the PCM automatically energizes the Auto Shutdown (ASD) relay. However, the PCM de-energizes the relay within one second because it has not received a crankshaft position sensor signal indicating engine rotation.
During cranking, the ASD relay will not energize until the PCM receives a crankshaft signal. Secondly, the ASD relay remains energized only if the PCM senses a camshaft position sensor signal immediately after detecting the crankshaft position sensor signal.
Check battery voltage with a voltmeter. Make sure to always attach the positive voltmeter wire to the positive (+) terminal of the component being checked. Do the same with the negative - wire also. Voltage for the battery should be approximately 12.66 volts or higher to perform the failure-to-start test.
Unplug the harness connector from the coil pack.
Connect a test light (or voltmeter) to the B+ (battery voltage) terminal of the coil electrical connector and ground. The wire for the B+ terminal is dark green with a orange tracer.
Fig. 1: Attach the 12 volt test light to the B+ (battery voltage) terminal of the coil electrical connector and ground
Ok, Here I tried to insert this nice picture of the test light with the probe in the pin (B+) and the other end of the light attached to a ground. I can't get the picture in!!
Turn the ignition key to the ON position. The test light should flash on and then off. DO NOT turn the key to the OFF position; leave it in the ON position.
If the test light flashes momentarily, the PCM grounded the ASD relay. Proceed to Step 5.
If the test light did not flash, the ASD relay did not energize. The cause is either the relay itself or one of the relay circuits. Test the circuits for a ground or open circuit. If you have a DRB scan tool, this is where you would need it to check the circuits. (We may be able to isolate the faulty circuit with an ohm meter and lots of work, or if this is the fault, you could pay a mechanic with the proper equipment to test these circuits. We will cross that bridge when we come to it.)[/i]
[/i]Crank the engine. If the key was placed in the OFF position after Step 4, turn the ignition to the ON position before cranking the engine. Wait for the test light to flash once, then crank the engine.
If the test light momentarily flashes during cranking, the PCM is not receiving a camshaft position sensor signal. Test the camshaft position sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit. Since Chrysler does not give a procedure for testing the camshaft position sensor with a voltmeter, ohmmeter or test light, have the component tested at a reputable automotive service center familiar with Chrysler vehicles.
If the test light did not flash during cranking, unplug the camshaft position sensor connector. Turn the ignition key to the OFF position. Turn the key to the ON position, wait for the test light to momentarily flash once, then crank the engine. If the test light momentarily flashes, the camshaft position sensor is shorted and must be replaced with a new one. If the light did not flash, the cause of the no-start is in either the crankshaft position sensor/camshaft position sensor 8.0 volt supply circuit, or the crankshaft position sensor 5 volt output or ground circuits. Have the crankshaft position sensor checked, after checking the sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit.
FAILURE-TO-START TEST
See Figure 1
This no-start test checks the camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor. Refer to the ignition coil tests before commencing with this test, much time may be saved if the problem lies within the coil.
The PCM supplies 8.0 volts to the camshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensor through one circuit. If the 8.0 volt supply circuit shorts to ground, neither sensor will produce a signal (output voltage to the PCM).
When the ignition key is turned and left in the ON position, the PCM automatically energizes the Auto Shutdown (ASD) relay. However, the PCM de-energizes the relay within one second because it has not received a crankshaft position sensor signal indicating engine rotation.
During cranking, the ASD relay will not energize until the PCM receives a crankshaft signal. Secondly, the ASD relay remains energized only if the PCM senses a camshaft position sensor signal immediately after detecting the crankshaft position sensor signal.
Check battery voltage with a voltmeter. Make sure to always attach the positive voltmeter wire to the positive (+) terminal of the component being checked. Do the same with the negative - wire also. Voltage for the battery should be approximately 12.66 volts or higher to perform the failure-to-start test.
Unplug the harness connector from the coil pack.
Connect a test light (or voltmeter) to the B+ (battery voltage) terminal of the coil electrical connector and ground. The wire for the B+ terminal is dark green with a orange tracer.
Fig. 1: Attach the 12 volt test light to the B+ (battery voltage) terminal of the coil electrical connector and ground
Ok, Here I tried to insert this nice picture of the test light with the probe in the pin (B+) and the other end of the light attached to a ground. I can't get the picture in!!
Turn the ignition key to the ON position. The test light should flash on and then off. DO NOT turn the key to the OFF position; leave it in the ON position.
If the test light flashes momentarily, the PCM grounded the ASD relay. Proceed to Step 5.
If the test light did not flash, the ASD relay did not energize. The cause is either the relay itself or one of the relay circuits. Test the circuits for a ground or open circuit. If you have a DRB scan tool, this is where you would need it to check the circuits. (We may be able to isolate the faulty circuit with an ohm meter and lots of work, or if this is the fault, you could pay a mechanic with the proper equipment to test these circuits. We will cross that bridge when we come to it.)[/i]
[/i]Crank the engine. If the key was placed in the OFF position after Step 4, turn the ignition to the ON position before cranking the engine. Wait for the test light to flash once, then crank the engine.
If the test light momentarily flashes during cranking, the PCM is not receiving a camshaft position sensor signal. Test the camshaft position sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit. Since Chrysler does not give a procedure for testing the camshaft position sensor with a voltmeter, ohmmeter or test light, have the component tested at a reputable automotive service center familiar with Chrysler vehicles.
If the test light did not flash during cranking, unplug the camshaft position sensor connector. Turn the ignition key to the OFF position. Turn the key to the ON position, wait for the test light to momentarily flash once, then crank the engine. If the test light momentarily flashes, the camshaft position sensor is shorted and must be replaced with a new one. If the light did not flash, the cause of the no-start is in either the crankshaft position sensor/camshaft position sensor 8.0 volt supply circuit, or the crankshaft position sensor 5 volt output or ground circuits. Have the crankshaft position sensor checked, after checking the sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit.
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Registered User
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RE: Need help fast
ORIGINAL: kurts2
Ok here is the entire "Failure To Start Test" for a 97 Intrepid/ Concord/ LHS/ Vision. Follow this first and see where it leads you. Let me know.
FAILURE-TO-START TEST
See Figure 1
This no-start test checks the camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor. Refer to the ignition coil tests before commencing with this test, much time may be saved if the problem lies within the coil.
The PCM supplies 8.0 volts to the camshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensor through one circuit. If the 8.0 volt supply circuit shorts to ground, neither sensor will produce a signal (output voltage to the PCM).
When the ignition key is turned and left in the ON position, the PCM automatically energizes the Auto Shutdown (ASD) relay. However, the PCM de-energizes the relay within one second because it has not received a crankshaft position sensor signal indicating engine rotation.
During cranking, the ASD relay will not energize until the PCM receives a crankshaft signal. Secondly, the ASD relay remains energized only if the PCM senses a camshaft position sensor signal immediately after detecting the crankshaft position sensor signal.
Check battery voltage with a voltmeter. Make sure to always attach the positive voltmeter wire to the positive (+) terminal of the component being checked. Do the same with the negative - wire also. Voltage for the battery should be approximately 12.66 volts or higher to perform the failure-to-start test.
Unplug the harness connector from the coil pack.
Connect a test light (or voltmeter) to the B+ (battery voltage) terminal of the coil electrical connector and ground. The wire for the B+ terminal is dark green with a orange tracer.
Fig. 1: Attach the 12 volt test light to the B+ (battery voltage) terminal of the coil electrical connector and ground
Ok, Here I tried to insert this nice picture of the test light with the probe in the pin (B+) and the other end of the light attached to a ground. I can't get the picture in!!
Turn the ignition key to the ON position. The test light should flash on and then off. DO NOT turn the key to the OFF position; leave it in the ON position.
If the test light flashes momentarily, the PCM grounded the ASD relay. Proceed to Step 5.
If the test light did not flash, the ASD relay did not energize. The cause is either the relay itself or one of the relay circuits. Test the circuits for a ground or open circuit. If you have a DRB scan tool, this is where you would need it to check the circuits. (We may be able to isolate the faulty circuit with an ohm meter and lots of work, or if this is the fault, you could pay a mechanic with the proper equipment to test these circuits. We will cross that bridge when we come to it.)[/i]
[/i]Crank the engine. If the key was placed in the OFF position after Step 4, turn the ignition to the ON position before cranking the engine. Wait for the test light to flash once, then crank the engine.
If the test light momentarily flashes during cranking, the PCM is not receiving a camshaft position sensor signal. Test the camshaft position sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit. Since Chrysler does not give a procedure for testing the camshaft position sensor with a voltmeter, ohmmeter or test light, have the component tested at a reputable automotive service center familiar with Chrysler vehicles.
If the test light did not flash during cranking, unplug the camshaft position sensor connector. Turn the ignition key to the OFF position. Turn the key to the ON position, wait for the test light to momentarily flash once, then crank the engine. If the test light momentarily flashes, the camshaft position sensor is shorted and must be replaced with a new one. If the light did not flash, the cause of the no-start is in either the crankshaft position sensor/camshaft position sensor 8.0 volt supply circuit, or the crankshaft position sensor 5 volt output or ground circuits. Have the crankshaft position sensor checked, after checking the sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit.
Ok here is the entire "Failure To Start Test" for a 97 Intrepid/ Concord/ LHS/ Vision. Follow this first and see where it leads you. Let me know.
FAILURE-TO-START TEST
See Figure 1
This no-start test checks the camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor. Refer to the ignition coil tests before commencing with this test, much time may be saved if the problem lies within the coil.
The PCM supplies 8.0 volts to the camshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensor through one circuit. If the 8.0 volt supply circuit shorts to ground, neither sensor will produce a signal (output voltage to the PCM).
When the ignition key is turned and left in the ON position, the PCM automatically energizes the Auto Shutdown (ASD) relay. However, the PCM de-energizes the relay within one second because it has not received a crankshaft position sensor signal indicating engine rotation.
During cranking, the ASD relay will not energize until the PCM receives a crankshaft signal. Secondly, the ASD relay remains energized only if the PCM senses a camshaft position sensor signal immediately after detecting the crankshaft position sensor signal.
Check battery voltage with a voltmeter. Make sure to always attach the positive voltmeter wire to the positive (+) terminal of the component being checked. Do the same with the negative - wire also. Voltage for the battery should be approximately 12.66 volts or higher to perform the failure-to-start test.
Unplug the harness connector from the coil pack.
Connect a test light (or voltmeter) to the B+ (battery voltage) terminal of the coil electrical connector and ground. The wire for the B+ terminal is dark green with a orange tracer.
Fig. 1: Attach the 12 volt test light to the B+ (battery voltage) terminal of the coil electrical connector and ground
Ok, Here I tried to insert this nice picture of the test light with the probe in the pin (B+) and the other end of the light attached to a ground. I can't get the picture in!!
Turn the ignition key to the ON position. The test light should flash on and then off. DO NOT turn the key to the OFF position; leave it in the ON position.
If the test light flashes momentarily, the PCM grounded the ASD relay. Proceed to Step 5.
If the test light did not flash, the ASD relay did not energize. The cause is either the relay itself or one of the relay circuits. Test the circuits for a ground or open circuit. If you have a DRB scan tool, this is where you would need it to check the circuits. (We may be able to isolate the faulty circuit with an ohm meter and lots of work, or if this is the fault, you could pay a mechanic with the proper equipment to test these circuits. We will cross that bridge when we come to it.)[/i]
[/i]Crank the engine. If the key was placed in the OFF position after Step 4, turn the ignition to the ON position before cranking the engine. Wait for the test light to flash once, then crank the engine.
If the test light momentarily flashes during cranking, the PCM is not receiving a camshaft position sensor signal. Test the camshaft position sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit. Since Chrysler does not give a procedure for testing the camshaft position sensor with a voltmeter, ohmmeter or test light, have the component tested at a reputable automotive service center familiar with Chrysler vehicles.
If the test light did not flash during cranking, unplug the camshaft position sensor connector. Turn the ignition key to the OFF position. Turn the key to the ON position, wait for the test light to momentarily flash once, then crank the engine. If the test light momentarily flashes, the camshaft position sensor is shorted and must be replaced with a new one. If the light did not flash, the cause of the no-start is in either the crankshaft position sensor/camshaft position sensor 8.0 volt supply circuit, or the crankshaft position sensor 5 volt output or ground circuits. Have the crankshaft position sensor checked, after checking the sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit.
The only thing I havn't noticed yet when doing a test was to see if the battery power wire on teh coil pack connector blinks. SO i'll try that.
Other than that man, we've done it, and its all good. Tested teh resistance in the coil pack (and started being like randy johnson and throwing parts at it, put in a new coil pack just to see) all good on the cam sensor and crank sensor (once again, tried a crank sensor just to see)
we have battery at the connector, everything on that list is fine. We have no codes being shown with flash diagnostics.
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RE: Need help fast
well, we just did head gaskets, it hasn't run since the belt was put back on.
I turned the crank over by hand all the way around to TDC on #1 after the belt was on, and the timing marks on the sprockets were still in between the two dots on the head like they were suposed to be. So I would say its probably not off.
I turned the crank over by hand all the way around to TDC on #1 after the belt was on, and the timing marks on the sprockets were still in between the two dots on the head like they were suposed to be. So I would say its probably not off.