2004 Crank but No Start (random). Please Help
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Registered User
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2004 Crank but No Start (random). Please Help
I apologize in advance, as this turned out to be extremely long and probably WAY too much information. But the way I see it, too much information is better than not enough.
2004 dodge neon 2.0L no mods.
145,000 miles on the engine.
Water pump and timing belt replaced about 4 years ago.
Starter replaced about a year ago.
Other than the random extremely hard cold starts described below, always starts as soon as you turn the key.
Here are some “conditions” information in case it helps.
I leave for work at 5:30am.
I have a 30 mile commute so I get to work at 6am.
I take lunch around 11:30am.
I leave work around 5pm.
I stop at a gas station every evening which is about 5 minutes away from work.
That is all this car is driven (work car).
OK. so here is what’s been going on…
I started to get random crank but hard to start instances approximately once every two weeks.
It would happen either when I got in my car in the morning to go to work or when I was coming home from work. The temperate outside was generally between 35 to 45 degrees fahrenheit.
The car would seem like it was flooded. It would crank but not start. It would sound like it was trying to fire but wouldn’t start (spit and sputter briefly). After about 5 or so attempts at trying to start, turning key for 5 to 10 seconds at a time, it would eventually start. The car would run rough for a few seconds and then idle “normally”. Once the engine would start, I’d get a CEL but like a dummy, never bothered to check the code assuming it was just thrown because of the rough idle the first few seconds of it starting.
During lunch time, the car would not have an issue starting either leaving for lunch or after grabbing food and coming back to work. There was also never an issue during my stops to the gas station after work. This lead me to believe that the engine was still slightly warm enough not to trigger the issue I’d been having.
Before I get too far, here are some other symptoms that may or may not be relevant. At a red light, with foot on the break, the RPMs seem odd. Sounds like too low with running rough but feels like want’s to pull forward. Because of this, I’ve been putting it in neutral where it seems to idle smooth. Also, on the way home, there is a section of road at a very steep incline for about a mile. Half way up this incline, the car starts to slow down. If I maintain pedal pressure, it sputters a bit but given more gas, it shifts down a gear and is fine.
This lasted about a month. Hard cold start every couple weeks. I replaced the spark plugs which were SHOT as well as the spark plug wires. The car idled much better and it seemed to have a little more power.
I thought the issue was fixed for a few days. Then one morning another hard start but much harder to start. Two days later, the same issue coming home. That night I replaced the coil and also the PCV valve because I figured why not, a PCV is cheap and it was pretty mushy sounding when shaken. Of coarse this also cleared the codes. I ASSUME they were just the P0300 and P0172 I’d later find out I was having.
Again, all seemed seemed well for the rest of the week. The next Monday morning, extremely hard start. So bad I was worried about draining the battery. That night after work I installed a new IAT sensor. I also checked the CEL code and saw it was a P0300 and P0172. I assumed that I was only getting these from me constantly stomping on the gas peddle frantically trying to get it to start. I should note that the ONLY time I’d get a CEL was right after a crank no start instance and it would always go away in a day or so.
The next morning, I drove to work, drove to lunch, and everything was fine. However, when I went to start the car after work, REALLY bad hard to start condition. It drained the battery so bad the starter would only click. I waited half an hour for the battery to come back to life just a little. The starter spun very slow and right before the battery was about to die completely it fired right up. I drove home, parked the car and sent a message to work saying I was working remote for a few days.
That following week, I could not get the car to start at all. After removing the TPS, I pulled the throttle body off, and cleaned it with a rag and warm water with a little dish soap as I discovered it’s PLASTIC…. I also thoroughly cleaned the IAC with throttle body cleaner verifying the plunger was not stuck. I also replaced the air filter. While putting everything back together, I also wiped down the inside of the intake which was dirty.
With everything back together, I turn the key as surely the issue must be finally fixed. No start….
The next day I rented a fuel pressure gauge from Autozone. Hooked it up, turned the key to prime. It went to 48 psi and held there. I turn off the key and after 60 seconds, it dropped to 40 psi. I repeated and same results. I crank the engine, same result but dropped to 40 psi when key off as I expected. I start smelling gas and notice that the gauge leaks. It’s not the connections, it’s dripping from the housing. I don’t know if that’s why the pressure drops with the key off or not. And I’m finding conflicting information on what the pressure should even be. I also checked the voltage of the battery both while cranking and with no key on. I don’t remember the numbers but they were higher than expected. While I haven’t taken it to get tested, I’m reasonably confident it’s good.
After speaking with my brother he said that should be plenty of pressure to get it to at least start. He recommended that I try starter fluid. (I just hadn't had the chance to try that yet as I didn’t have any). I bought some starter fluid today. I take off the cover to the air box, (fuel pressure gauge still attached), and crank the engine just to check the pressure gauge one more time before trying the starter fluid and the damn thing started right up! Fuel pressure read 50 but the gauge was dripping so…. I shut it off. Took less than a minute to drop to 40 and was to 0 in a little over a minute I think. The ONLY thing I had done was give the gas cap a couple more clicks because….why not.
I’m good on air I think, I’m good on ignition I think. Must be fuel? Fuel regulator, pump, filter,? But why would it run fine when it IS running? I don’t know… I thought cam position sensor but I have no codes. I’m at a loss. What does this sound like?
To recap:
2004 dodge neon 2.0L no mods.
145,000 miles on the engine.
Water pump and timing belt replaced about 4 years ago.
Starter replaced about a year ago.
Cam position sensor replace years ago
New spark plugs
New spark plug wires
New coil
New PCV valve
New IAC
IAC cleaned
Throttle body cleaned
New air filter
Leaking fuel pressure tester reads 48-50 and drops when key is off. (maybe because of the gauge dripping?)
Battery seems fine when just checking volts with and without cranking
Will randomly crank but just not start.
Next step, see if Autozone has a gauge that doesn’t leak.
I’m pretty sure I didn’t leave anything out….
2004 dodge neon 2.0L no mods.
145,000 miles on the engine.
Water pump and timing belt replaced about 4 years ago.
Starter replaced about a year ago.
Other than the random extremely hard cold starts described below, always starts as soon as you turn the key.
Here are some “conditions” information in case it helps.
I leave for work at 5:30am.
I have a 30 mile commute so I get to work at 6am.
I take lunch around 11:30am.
I leave work around 5pm.
I stop at a gas station every evening which is about 5 minutes away from work.
That is all this car is driven (work car).
OK. so here is what’s been going on…
I started to get random crank but hard to start instances approximately once every two weeks.
It would happen either when I got in my car in the morning to go to work or when I was coming home from work. The temperate outside was generally between 35 to 45 degrees fahrenheit.
The car would seem like it was flooded. It would crank but not start. It would sound like it was trying to fire but wouldn’t start (spit and sputter briefly). After about 5 or so attempts at trying to start, turning key for 5 to 10 seconds at a time, it would eventually start. The car would run rough for a few seconds and then idle “normally”. Once the engine would start, I’d get a CEL but like a dummy, never bothered to check the code assuming it was just thrown because of the rough idle the first few seconds of it starting.
During lunch time, the car would not have an issue starting either leaving for lunch or after grabbing food and coming back to work. There was also never an issue during my stops to the gas station after work. This lead me to believe that the engine was still slightly warm enough not to trigger the issue I’d been having.
Before I get too far, here are some other symptoms that may or may not be relevant. At a red light, with foot on the break, the RPMs seem odd. Sounds like too low with running rough but feels like want’s to pull forward. Because of this, I’ve been putting it in neutral where it seems to idle smooth. Also, on the way home, there is a section of road at a very steep incline for about a mile. Half way up this incline, the car starts to slow down. If I maintain pedal pressure, it sputters a bit but given more gas, it shifts down a gear and is fine.
This lasted about a month. Hard cold start every couple weeks. I replaced the spark plugs which were SHOT as well as the spark plug wires. The car idled much better and it seemed to have a little more power.
I thought the issue was fixed for a few days. Then one morning another hard start but much harder to start. Two days later, the same issue coming home. That night I replaced the coil and also the PCV valve because I figured why not, a PCV is cheap and it was pretty mushy sounding when shaken. Of coarse this also cleared the codes. I ASSUME they were just the P0300 and P0172 I’d later find out I was having.
Again, all seemed seemed well for the rest of the week. The next Monday morning, extremely hard start. So bad I was worried about draining the battery. That night after work I installed a new IAT sensor. I also checked the CEL code and saw it was a P0300 and P0172. I assumed that I was only getting these from me constantly stomping on the gas peddle frantically trying to get it to start. I should note that the ONLY time I’d get a CEL was right after a crank no start instance and it would always go away in a day or so.
The next morning, I drove to work, drove to lunch, and everything was fine. However, when I went to start the car after work, REALLY bad hard to start condition. It drained the battery so bad the starter would only click. I waited half an hour for the battery to come back to life just a little. The starter spun very slow and right before the battery was about to die completely it fired right up. I drove home, parked the car and sent a message to work saying I was working remote for a few days.
That following week, I could not get the car to start at all. After removing the TPS, I pulled the throttle body off, and cleaned it with a rag and warm water with a little dish soap as I discovered it’s PLASTIC…. I also thoroughly cleaned the IAC with throttle body cleaner verifying the plunger was not stuck. I also replaced the air filter. While putting everything back together, I also wiped down the inside of the intake which was dirty.
With everything back together, I turn the key as surely the issue must be finally fixed. No start….
The next day I rented a fuel pressure gauge from Autozone. Hooked it up, turned the key to prime. It went to 48 psi and held there. I turn off the key and after 60 seconds, it dropped to 40 psi. I repeated and same results. I crank the engine, same result but dropped to 40 psi when key off as I expected. I start smelling gas and notice that the gauge leaks. It’s not the connections, it’s dripping from the housing. I don’t know if that’s why the pressure drops with the key off or not. And I’m finding conflicting information on what the pressure should even be. I also checked the voltage of the battery both while cranking and with no key on. I don’t remember the numbers but they were higher than expected. While I haven’t taken it to get tested, I’m reasonably confident it’s good.
After speaking with my brother he said that should be plenty of pressure to get it to at least start. He recommended that I try starter fluid. (I just hadn't had the chance to try that yet as I didn’t have any). I bought some starter fluid today. I take off the cover to the air box, (fuel pressure gauge still attached), and crank the engine just to check the pressure gauge one more time before trying the starter fluid and the damn thing started right up! Fuel pressure read 50 but the gauge was dripping so…. I shut it off. Took less than a minute to drop to 40 and was to 0 in a little over a minute I think. The ONLY thing I had done was give the gas cap a couple more clicks because….why not.
I’m good on air I think, I’m good on ignition I think. Must be fuel? Fuel regulator, pump, filter,? But why would it run fine when it IS running? I don’t know… I thought cam position sensor but I have no codes. I’m at a loss. What does this sound like?
To recap:
2004 dodge neon 2.0L no mods.
145,000 miles on the engine.
Water pump and timing belt replaced about 4 years ago.
Starter replaced about a year ago.
Cam position sensor replace years ago
New spark plugs
New spark plug wires
New coil
New PCV valve
New IAC
IAC cleaned
Throttle body cleaned
New air filter
Leaking fuel pressure tester reads 48-50 and drops when key is off. (maybe because of the gauge dripping?)
Battery seems fine when just checking volts with and without cranking
Will randomly crank but just not start.
Next step, see if Autozone has a gauge that doesn’t leak.
I’m pretty sure I didn’t leave anything out….
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
I picked up a replacement fuel pressure gauge. Hopefully I'll have enough daylight after work tomorrow to hook it up. In the mean time, does anyone happen to know what the fuel pressure should actually be? Both primed and running? The numbers I'm finding online contradict each other.
Captain
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 529
Likes: 18
From: SW Va
A month old with 246 reads & no replies so you've probably fixed it by now but I'll see if I can get things started. FSM says fuel pressure on your 05 at the injectors / fuel rail is 58 +/- 5psi.
Not sure I'm clear on the intermittent problem as posted. Is it a random no crank, or cranks ok but just won't run, or both a random both, no crank & no start/run problem?
Scan for & post All trouble code Numbers, as they can help focus a trouble-shoot. Some initial thoughts for consideration if your still working the problem.
If you've found & fixed the problem post it up, could help others with a like problem trouble-shoot their woes!!!
Not sure I'm clear on the intermittent problem as posted. Is it a random no crank, or cranks ok but just won't run, or both a random both, no crank & no start/run problem?
Scan for & post All trouble code Numbers, as they can help focus a trouble-shoot. Some initial thoughts for consideration if your still working the problem.
If you've found & fixed the problem post it up, could help others with a like problem trouble-shoot their woes!!!
Registered User
Joined: May 2024
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Maybe I can help?
I have an '02 dodge neon with 130k miles on it that also has the bad idle at stoplights, as well as many other issues. I haven't figured it out, but it could be an Evap leak that this model appears to be famous for, or a trans that's going bad. Right now I have a hydrolocked motor so I'm just trying to get it running again, but start by tracing all your vacuum lines? I had one above the cat that was burnt apart that I replaced and while not completely fixing the issue, helped.
Registered User
Joined: May 2024
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
no start (random)
I apologize in advance, as this turned out to be extremely long and probably WAY too much information. But the way I see it, too much information is better than not enough.
2004 dodge neon 2.0L no mods.
145,000 miles on the engine.
Water pump and timing belt replaced about 4 years ago.
Starter replaced about a year ago.
Other than the random extremely hard cold starts described below, always starts as soon as you turn the key.
Here are some “conditions” information in case it helps.
I leave for work at 5:30am.
I have a 30 mile commute so I get to work at 6am.
I take lunch around 11:30am.
I leave work around 5pm.
I stop at a gas station every evening which is about 5 minutes away from work.
That is all this car is driven (work car).
OK. so here is what’s been going on…
I started to get random crank but hard to start instances approximately once every two weeks.
It would happen either when I got in my car in the morning to go to work or when I was coming home from work. The temperate outside was generally between 35 to 45 degrees fahrenheit.
The car would seem like it was flooded. It would crank but not start. It would sound like it was trying to fire but wouldn’t start (spit and sputter briefly). After about 5 or so attempts at trying to start, turning key for 5 to 10 seconds at a time, it would eventually start. The car would run rough for a few seconds and then idle “normally”. Once the engine would start, I’d get a CEL but like a dummy, never bothered to check the code assuming it was just thrown because of the rough idle the first few seconds of it starting.
During lunch time, the car would not have an issue starting either leaving for lunch or after grabbing food and coming back to work. There was also never an issue during my stops to the gas station after work. This lead me to believe that the engine was still slightly warm enough not to trigger the issue I’d been having.
Before I get too far, here are some other symptoms that may or may not be relevant. At a red light, with foot on the break, the RPMs seem odd. Sounds like too low with running rough but feels like want’s to pull forward. Because of this, I’ve been putting it in neutral where it seems to idle smooth. Also, on the way home, there is a section of road at a very steep incline for about a mile. Half way up this incline, the car starts to slow down. If I maintain pedal pressure, it sputters a bit but given more gas, it shifts down a gear and is fine.
This lasted about a month. Hard cold start every couple weeks. I replaced the spark plugs which were SHOT as well as the spark plug wires. The car idled much better and it seemed to have a little more power.
I thought the issue was fixed for a few days. Then one morning another hard start but much harder to start. Two days later, the same issue coming home. That night I replaced the coil and also the PCV valve because I figured why not, a PCV is cheap and it was pretty mushy sounding when shaken. Of coarse this also cleared the codes. I ASSUME they were just the P0300 and P0172 I’d later find out I was having.
Again, all seemed seemed well for the rest of the week. The next Monday morning, extremely hard start. So bad I was worried about draining the battery. That night after work I installed a new IAT sensor. I also checked the CEL code and saw it was a P0300 and P0172. I assumed that I was only getting these from me constantly stomping on the gas peddle frantically trying to get it to start. I should note that the ONLY time I’d get a CEL was right after a crank no start instance and it would always go away in a day or so.
The next morning, I drove to work, drove to lunch, and everything was fine. However, when I went to start the car after work, REALLY bad hard to start condition. It drained the battery so bad the starter would only click. I waited half an hour for the battery to come back to life just a little. The starter spun very slow and right before the battery was about to die completely it fired right up. I drove home, parked the car and sent a message to work saying I was working remote for a few days.
That following week, I could not get the car to start at all. After removing the TPS, I pulled the throttle body off, and cleaned it with a rag and warm water with a little dish soap as I discovered it’s PLASTIC…. I also thoroughly cleaned the IAC with throttle body cleaner verifying the plunger was not stuck. I also replaced the air filter. While putting everything back together, I also wiped down the inside of the intake which was dirty.
With everything back together, I turn the key as surely the issue must be finally fixed. No start….
The next day I rented a fuel pressure gauge from Autozone. Hooked it up, turned the key to prime. It went to 48 psi and held there. I turn off the key and after 60 seconds, it dropped to 40 psi. I repeated and same results. I crank the engine, same result but dropped to 40 psi when key off as I expected. I start smelling gas and notice that the gauge leaks. It’s not the connections, it’s dripping from the housing. I don’t know if that’s why the pressure drops with the key off or not. And I’m finding conflicting information on what the pressure should even be. I also checked the voltage of the battery both while cranking and with no key on. I don’t remember the numbers but they were higher than expected. While I haven’t taken it to get tested, I’m reasonably confident it’s good.
After speaking with my brother he said that should be plenty of pressure to get it to at least start. He recommended that I try starter fluid. (I just hadn't had the chance to try that yet as I didn’t have any). I bought some starter fluid today. I take off the cover to the air box, (fuel pressure gauge still attached), and crank the engine just to check the pressure gauge one more time before trying the starter fluid and the damn thing started right up! Fuel pressure read 50 but the gauge was dripping so…. I shut it off. Took less than a minute to drop to 40 and was to 0 in a little over a minute I think. The ONLY thing I had done was give the gas cap a couple more clicks because….why not.
I’m good on air I think, I’m good on ignition I think. Must be fuel? Fuel regulator, pump, filter,? But why would it run fine when it IS running? I don’t know… I thought cam position sensor but I have no codes. I’m at a loss. What does this sound like?
To recap:
2004 dodge neon 2.0L no mods.
145,000 miles on the engine.
Water pump and timing belt replaced about 4 years ago.
Starter replaced about a year ago.
Cam position sensor replace years ago
New spark plugs
New spark plug wires
New coil
New PCV valve
New IAC
IAC cleaned
Throttle body cleaned
New air filter
Leaking fuel pressure tester reads 48-50 and drops when key is off. (maybe because of the gauge dripping?)
Battery seems fine when just checking volts with and without cranking
Will randomly crank but just not start.
Next step, see if Autozone has a gauge that doesn’t leak.
I’m pretty sure I didn’t leave anything out….
2004 dodge neon 2.0L no mods.
145,000 miles on the engine.
Water pump and timing belt replaced about 4 years ago.
Starter replaced about a year ago.
Other than the random extremely hard cold starts described below, always starts as soon as you turn the key.
Here are some “conditions” information in case it helps.
I leave for work at 5:30am.
I have a 30 mile commute so I get to work at 6am.
I take lunch around 11:30am.
I leave work around 5pm.
I stop at a gas station every evening which is about 5 minutes away from work.
That is all this car is driven (work car).
OK. so here is what’s been going on…
I started to get random crank but hard to start instances approximately once every two weeks.
It would happen either when I got in my car in the morning to go to work or when I was coming home from work. The temperate outside was generally between 35 to 45 degrees fahrenheit.
The car would seem like it was flooded. It would crank but not start. It would sound like it was trying to fire but wouldn’t start (spit and sputter briefly). After about 5 or so attempts at trying to start, turning key for 5 to 10 seconds at a time, it would eventually start. The car would run rough for a few seconds and then idle “normally”. Once the engine would start, I’d get a CEL but like a dummy, never bothered to check the code assuming it was just thrown because of the rough idle the first few seconds of it starting.
During lunch time, the car would not have an issue starting either leaving for lunch or after grabbing food and coming back to work. There was also never an issue during my stops to the gas station after work. This lead me to believe that the engine was still slightly warm enough not to trigger the issue I’d been having.
Before I get too far, here are some other symptoms that may or may not be relevant. At a red light, with foot on the break, the RPMs seem odd. Sounds like too low with running rough but feels like want’s to pull forward. Because of this, I’ve been putting it in neutral where it seems to idle smooth. Also, on the way home, there is a section of road at a very steep incline for about a mile. Half way up this incline, the car starts to slow down. If I maintain pedal pressure, it sputters a bit but given more gas, it shifts down a gear and is fine.
This lasted about a month. Hard cold start every couple weeks. I replaced the spark plugs which were SHOT as well as the spark plug wires. The car idled much better and it seemed to have a little more power.
I thought the issue was fixed for a few days. Then one morning another hard start but much harder to start. Two days later, the same issue coming home. That night I replaced the coil and also the PCV valve because I figured why not, a PCV is cheap and it was pretty mushy sounding when shaken. Of coarse this also cleared the codes. I ASSUME they were just the P0300 and P0172 I’d later find out I was having.
Again, all seemed seemed well for the rest of the week. The next Monday morning, extremely hard start. So bad I was worried about draining the battery. That night after work I installed a new IAT sensor. I also checked the CEL code and saw it was a P0300 and P0172. I assumed that I was only getting these from me constantly stomping on the gas peddle frantically trying to get it to start. I should note that the ONLY time I’d get a CEL was right after a crank no start instance and it would always go away in a day or so.
The next morning, I drove to work, drove to lunch, and everything was fine. However, when I went to start the car after work, REALLY bad hard to start condition. It drained the battery so bad the starter would only click. I waited half an hour for the battery to come back to life just a little. The starter spun very slow and right before the battery was about to die completely it fired right up. I drove home, parked the car and sent a message to work saying I was working remote for a few days.
That following week, I could not get the car to start at all. After removing the TPS, I pulled the throttle body off, and cleaned it with a rag and warm water with a little dish soap as I discovered it’s PLASTIC…. I also thoroughly cleaned the IAC with throttle body cleaner verifying the plunger was not stuck. I also replaced the air filter. While putting everything back together, I also wiped down the inside of the intake which was dirty.
With everything back together, I turn the key as surely the issue must be finally fixed. No start….
The next day I rented a fuel pressure gauge from Autozone. Hooked it up, turned the key to prime. It went to 48 psi and held there. I turn off the key and after 60 seconds, it dropped to 40 psi. I repeated and same results. I crank the engine, same result but dropped to 40 psi when key off as I expected. I start smelling gas and notice that the gauge leaks. It’s not the connections, it’s dripping from the housing. I don’t know if that’s why the pressure drops with the key off or not. And I’m finding conflicting information on what the pressure should even be. I also checked the voltage of the battery both while cranking and with no key on. I don’t remember the numbers but they were higher than expected. While I haven’t taken it to get tested, I’m reasonably confident it’s good.
After speaking with my brother he said that should be plenty of pressure to get it to at least start. He recommended that I try starter fluid. (I just hadn't had the chance to try that yet as I didn’t have any). I bought some starter fluid today. I take off the cover to the air box, (fuel pressure gauge still attached), and crank the engine just to check the pressure gauge one more time before trying the starter fluid and the damn thing started right up! Fuel pressure read 50 but the gauge was dripping so…. I shut it off. Took less than a minute to drop to 40 and was to 0 in a little over a minute I think. The ONLY thing I had done was give the gas cap a couple more clicks because….why not.
I’m good on air I think, I’m good on ignition I think. Must be fuel? Fuel regulator, pump, filter,? But why would it run fine when it IS running? I don’t know… I thought cam position sensor but I have no codes. I’m at a loss. What does this sound like?
To recap:
2004 dodge neon 2.0L no mods.
145,000 miles on the engine.
Water pump and timing belt replaced about 4 years ago.
Starter replaced about a year ago.
Cam position sensor replace years ago
New spark plugs
New spark plug wires
New coil
New PCV valve
New IAC
IAC cleaned
Throttle body cleaned
New air filter
Leaking fuel pressure tester reads 48-50 and drops when key is off. (maybe because of the gauge dripping?)
Battery seems fine when just checking volts with and without cranking
Will randomly crank but just not start.
Next step, see if Autozone has a gauge that doesn’t leak.
I’m pretty sure I didn’t leave anything out….