hmm very intresting ptoject...
is the 5.9 used in the ZJ the same as the 5.9 used in the ram's (i dont know jeeps too well) im pritty sure you know a lot more on this pcm stuff than me (sounds like you have been doing a lot of reserch)...this securty thing your talking about, do you know if your jeep has it? if not im pritty sure the PCM out of some 98 rams would be compatable, there are 2 diffrent virsions in them (well i think its just diffrent programing) but there is 2 diffrent CCM's (centeral control module) one is a simple one whitch basically only controls the intermitent wipers(called "low line"), the other one (called "high line" or "premimum") is in vehicles that have the compas/temp thing by the dome light or have FOB's for the power locks....so if you dont have the secerty module or can find out where exactley it is and use the low line one out of a ram i think i would work. i would do the project up intill the point of the PCM, put one in from a (98 5.9 5 speed) and see what happens if runs good (dosent lock you out) then have the vin changed and life will be good, if it duz lock you out i think your only option would be the custom flash to remove the auto from PCM

 

Thanks Socha and Ryan,

It definitely would be nice to have a trans as strong as the 4500 but if I didn't use 1st it would be like installing a 4 spd. I'd rather have all five gears. Another big issue is the trans tunnel frequently has to be enlarged or modified to fit the 4500 into a vehicleit didn't come in as the 4500 shift tower is higher than 35XX series 5spds.

I think the 3550 might be a bit stronger than the 3500. I'm used to seeing a detachable bellhousing on a manual trans so it would be nice to do the NV3550 w/AX15 bellhousingbut it seems like it would be a simpler and maybe cheaperto just get the 3500 rather than tracking down the trans, flywheeland bellhousing separately.
It's a shame there aren't any other choices than the NV3500/3550/4500. I've heard the NV3500s are a gamble. Some will stand up to a lot, some don't last even in stock applications.

The Jeep 5.9 is the same motor as the Dodge 5.9, both are Magnums. There may be some sensor differences etc. One interesting thing is the Jeep starters are on the opposite side from Dodge.
The swap is do-able. I've PM'd with the guy that put an NV4500 in his 5.9 ZJ but he never did a tech writeup on the swap. He sold the Jeep since thenbut says he may still do a writeup. The only thing is he never solved his check engine light issue.

As for the PCM thing, I've learned a lot but I still don't knowanything! :-) Ionly know what I've read so far and some of the info is contradictory.
I need the vehicle to be able to pass MA inspection so I believe it has to have my VIN. Even that issue seems to be different from state to state though.
I still have to research it and go through some stuff on the SRTforum. There is info there that says it can be done (even though the dealer says it can't) but that may only apply to much newer vehicles. I think there are even different issues between OBDII vehicles from 96/97 , 98 and 99 and later as they may be different in how or whether the VIN can be flashed.

I suppose it really comes down to me being cheap :-) I'd like to get all used parts. I can spend a little more and get a remanufactured PCM that matches a 5.9/5spd/4WD Ram (with my VIN flashed into it) but after spending money on that I might still be facingissues that would require it to be custom flashed anyway.
It would be worth it to get the B&GPerformance custom flash but I'd like to do that after I've done some engine mods. I don't have any right now.

Mine definitely has the factory security system so that should make it easier, either PCM should work in it.
It also has all the external temp/ET/Avg mpg/Inst mpg stuff in the overhead console and I'm hoping I can keep that stuff working too.

Sounds like the CCM in the Dodges is the same as the BCM in the Jeeps. It seems to interface with every system in it from what I hear.

I think if I do this I may do as you said and get a used RamPCM first. It's shame I need parts from 2 different Rams as I'd like to just buy a donor vehicle myself. To do this I'd need the transmission from a 3.9 or 5.2 5spd vehicle and the flywheel and PCM from a 5.9 5spd vehicle. (5.9s and 5.2 flywheels will physically fit each other but are not interchangeble due to the internal/external balance issue) I also just foundout I need the 5.9 pressure plate but the clutch disc has to be from a 5.2 to fit the NV3500 splines.
Of course the good thing about buying donor vehicles is you can sell the extra parts to help fund the project.

I'll have to doublecheck but in another forum I thinksomeone said there was a 5.9 with an NV3500 in the Dakota. Maybe in 2WD only? First I've heard of that combo but if it exists it would make the whole thing a lot easier.

I'll post more info as I find it. Thanks again John

 

hmm acording to what ive read the 5.9 only came with a NV4500 regardless of body style (dak or ram)

the 5.9 is rated output at 330 ft/lbs but the NV3500 is only rated input at 300ft/lbs so i cant see them sticking a tranny with a lower imput rating than the output of the moter

however i just noticed something they did make a NV3500HD rated at 340ft/lbs ( http://dodgeram.org/tech/transmission/nv3500_spec.htm ) but it says it wasent avalable on the rams so maby there was a 5.9 something made with this one...guess is what im saying find out what came with the NV3500HD and you might have what your looking for

hmm the only thing i can find with a NV3500HD are daks and jeeps with a 4.0 or a 5.2 (no 5.9's) wonder why they get stronger trannys than the full size ram trucks

 

Ryan,

Ya, I misread that other thing about the 5.9/NV3500.Def only the NV4500 came with the 5.9.

In 2000 or 2001 Jeep went to the NV3550 on the Wranglers. Do you know if the 2000 or 2001 Dodge 3.9 or 5.2 trucks used the NV3550 too or did they stay with the NV3500?

Interesting info on that link you sent. That is odd about theapplications too. Not only odd that the HD is available in "lighter" trucks but that the HD andthe Ram 2500 LD NV3500 have a higher first gearratio than the 1500 NVs.

Looks like I'm getting to the last of the info I need. Time to start saving money for the swap.

If you know anything about Jeep to Dodge or Auto to Manual transfer case compatibility I'm going to be starting a thread on that here in a few minutes.

Thanks again - John

 

nope the only 5 speeds in the rams are the NV3500 and NV4500

i think youll need the transfer case with the tranny i think i herd that the transfer case for the auto and 5 speed mounted diffrentley

 

Yes, that sound like the best bet, to use the TC that comes with the trans. Now I'll do a search on how to ID the HD and narrow ratio NV3500s vs the wide ratio.

I know the NV3550 swap with the 3.9AX15 bellhousing is do-able since that's what High Impact sells for Magnum motors but then I'd be hunting for parts from three different vehicles instead of two. (Flywheel and PCM from a 5.9/5spd and the NV3500 from a 5.2/5spd)

The info part of this swap seems to be wrapping up quite nicely. I talked to an inspection tech today that was more informed than the last guy.

He says the (MA) emissions machines do NOT read the VIN from the OBDII port, just the codes. It is manually entered off the registration card and visually confirmed. I told him about the swap plan using a Dodge Ram PCM in my ZJ and he said as long as it has no active codes it would pass.

 

well that solves a lot of your problems then, shouldent be too hard getting the codes gone, i woundet think youd need a custom flash of your pcm ither now that you dont need the vin in there

glad to hear your getting all your info, when you start the swap keep me/us posted w/pics if possable i wanna put a 5 speed in my ram (a NV3500HD if possable) but id like to know how you make out

also if you find out how to id them please let me know, thanks

 

Yup, It sure helps. Then I can save for a custom flash after I get mods done.

Really doesn't seem all that involved. A lot of the people on the Jeep forums wanted to do it but were put off by the amount of work involved and these were people that had done lots of mods already.

I'm surprised I've only heard of three V8 5spd ZJs so far.

 

just and fyi, i currently have an nv3500 in my truck, it has 127k on it and its had the ever living **** abused out of it. also had the same trans in my 93 power ram work truck that when we junked it had 194k on the clock. that was also abused to ****. towed WAY more weight then it ever should have and we plowed for years with it. these are in heavy *** trucks with alot of abuse. your jeep is half the weight, i think you'll have no problems.

 

Ya, the NV3500 sounds like the way to go for now.

Any chance you know how to ID the various close/narrow ratio boxes.

Also, have you heard of any guidelines for what cranks might not be drilled for pilot bushings?

From what I've read I'm pretty sure mine is drilled but I'd love to know if there are any guidelines.