What do you know about turbos?
Thread Starter
|
Champion
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 0
From:
What do you know about turbos?
Id like to learn about turbos some more. If you have an idea of how a turbo system works, help me out. Not saying this is a mod or anything, but Id just like to know some more.
My questions are:
1. How do you supply oil to the turbo?
2. Does the distance the turbo is from the intake matter?
3. Intercoolers, whats the deal?
4. Whats the skinny on blow off valves?
5. Fuel management, is it the same idea as a s/c?
thanks on any light you can shed on the subject.
My questions are:
1. How do you supply oil to the turbo?
2. Does the distance the turbo is from the intake matter?
3. Intercoolers, whats the deal?
4. Whats the skinny on blow off valves?
5. Fuel management, is it the same idea as a s/c?
thanks on any light you can shed on the subject.
Professional
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
From:
RE: What do you know about turbos?
Alright, i'm not an expert on the subject, but I've picked up a lot in the past year I've been researching this.
#1. the vast majority of people adding a turbo are going to tee off of the oil pressure sending unit on the back of the block next to the distributor, thisalso applies for superchargers that don't have their own oil reservoir.
#2. this is strongly debated back and forth on turbo forums, people have had great success with the STS rear-mounted turbo's which are usually more than 10 feet from the TB. most of the argument is about the heat from the exhaust being dissapated before it gets back that far. I can't remember though if the turbo needs to be bigger or smaller to make up the piping distance.
#3. Most guys will say an intercooler is a waste of money unless you're pushing over 10psi regularly.
#4. what do you want to know about blow-off valves? their function is to release pressure built up in the intake tube when you let off the throttle. when you let off the gas from WOT, the turbo is still spinning 100,000rpms and pushing air at the throttle body, if the throttle blades are closed, they can actually be bent or broken off & thrown down the intake manifold from the pressure. Or the air basically bounces off the throttle blades & heads back to the turbo, if this happens the air can stop the turbine & make it spin backwards instantly, which is called compressor surge...and kills turbos quickly. when you let off the gas, the pressure inside the intake manifold goes from boost to vacuum and the vacuum pulls the valve inside the BOV open & releases that built up pressure to the atmosphere.
#5. fuel management is basically the same with turbos & superchargers, although turbos aren't belt driven, so the boost can come in much quicker (almost instantly in a properly sized setup) so you'll have to take that into account.
#1. the vast majority of people adding a turbo are going to tee off of the oil pressure sending unit on the back of the block next to the distributor, thisalso applies for superchargers that don't have their own oil reservoir.
#2. this is strongly debated back and forth on turbo forums, people have had great success with the STS rear-mounted turbo's which are usually more than 10 feet from the TB. most of the argument is about the heat from the exhaust being dissapated before it gets back that far. I can't remember though if the turbo needs to be bigger or smaller to make up the piping distance.
#3. Most guys will say an intercooler is a waste of money unless you're pushing over 10psi regularly.
#4. what do you want to know about blow-off valves? their function is to release pressure built up in the intake tube when you let off the throttle. when you let off the gas from WOT, the turbo is still spinning 100,000rpms and pushing air at the throttle body, if the throttle blades are closed, they can actually be bent or broken off & thrown down the intake manifold from the pressure. Or the air basically bounces off the throttle blades & heads back to the turbo, if this happens the air can stop the turbine & make it spin backwards instantly, which is called compressor surge...and kills turbos quickly. when you let off the gas, the pressure inside the intake manifold goes from boost to vacuum and the vacuum pulls the valve inside the BOV open & releases that built up pressure to the atmosphere.
#5. fuel management is basically the same with turbos & superchargers, although turbos aren't belt driven, so the boost can come in much quicker (almost instantly in a properly sized setup) so you'll have to take that into account.
Thread Starter
|
Champion
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 0
From:
RE: What do you know about turbos?
ORIGINAL: OlsenG_360
Alright, i'm not an expert on the subject, but I've picked up a lot in the past year I've been researching this.
#1. the vast majority of people adding a turbo are going to tee off of the oil pressure sending unit on the back of the block next to the distributor, thisalso applies for superchargers that don't have their own oil reservoir.
#2. this is strongly debated back and forth on turbo forums, people have had great success with the STS rear-mounted turbo's which are usually more than 10 feet from the TB. most of the argument is about the heat from the exhaust being dissapated before it gets back that far. I can't remember though if the turbo needs to be bigger or smaller to make up the piping distance.
#3. Most guys will say an intercooler is a waste of money unless you're pushing over 10psi regularly.
#4. what do you want to know about blow-off valves? their function is to release pressure built up in the intake tube when you let off the throttle. when you let off the gas from WOT, the turbo is still spinning 100,000rpms and pushing air at the throttle body, if the throttle blades are closed, they can actually be bent or broken off & thrown down the intake manifold from the pressure. Or the air basically bounces off the throttle blades & heads back to the turbo, if this happens the air can stop the turbine & make it spin backwards instantly, which is called compressor surge...and kills turbos quickly. when you let off the gas, the pressure inside the intake manifold goes from boost to vacuum and the vacuum pulls the valve inside the BOV open & releases that built up pressure to the atmosphere.
#5. fuel management is basically the same with turbos & superchargers, although turbos aren't belt driven, so the boost can come in much quicker (almost instantly in a properly sized setup) so you'll have to take that into account.
Alright, i'm not an expert on the subject, but I've picked up a lot in the past year I've been researching this.
#1. the vast majority of people adding a turbo are going to tee off of the oil pressure sending unit on the back of the block next to the distributor, thisalso applies for superchargers that don't have their own oil reservoir.
#2. this is strongly debated back and forth on turbo forums, people have had great success with the STS rear-mounted turbo's which are usually more than 10 feet from the TB. most of the argument is about the heat from the exhaust being dissapated before it gets back that far. I can't remember though if the turbo needs to be bigger or smaller to make up the piping distance.
#3. Most guys will say an intercooler is a waste of money unless you're pushing over 10psi regularly.
#4. what do you want to know about blow-off valves? their function is to release pressure built up in the intake tube when you let off the throttle. when you let off the gas from WOT, the turbo is still spinning 100,000rpms and pushing air at the throttle body, if the throttle blades are closed, they can actually be bent or broken off & thrown down the intake manifold from the pressure. Or the air basically bounces off the throttle blades & heads back to the turbo, if this happens the air can stop the turbine & make it spin backwards instantly, which is called compressor surge...and kills turbos quickly. when you let off the gas, the pressure inside the intake manifold goes from boost to vacuum and the vacuum pulls the valve inside the BOV open & releases that built up pressure to the atmosphere.
#5. fuel management is basically the same with turbos & superchargers, although turbos aren't belt driven, so the boost can come in much quicker (almost instantly in a properly sized setup) so you'll have to take that into account.
I have another question now. With twin turbos, obviously you run two diffrent sizes so that you dont have turbo lag at any particular rpm band, so how do you join the two (intake side) so that it doesnt cause backpressure to build on one or the other when one is at max boost and the other isnt?
Professional
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
From:
RE: What do you know about turbos?
ORIGINAL: IndyRamMan
lol, i was looking at that. unfortunately it doesnt answer my questions.
thats very handy. thanks.
I have another question now. With twin turbos, obviously you run two diffrent sizes so that you dont have turbo lag at any particular rpm band, so how do you join the two (intake side) so that it doesnt cause backpressure to build on one or the other when one is at max boost and the other isnt?
ORIGINAL: OlsenG_360
Alright, i'm not an expert on the subject, but I've picked up a lot in the past year I've been researching this.
#1. the vast majority of people adding a turbo are going to tee off of the oil pressure sending unit on the back of the block next to the distributor, thisalso applies for superchargers that don't have their own oil reservoir.
#2. this is strongly debated back and forth on turbo forums, people have had great success with the STS rear-mounted turbo's which are usually more than 10 feet from the TB. most of the argument is about the heat from the exhaust being dissapated before it gets back that far. I can't remember though if the turbo needs to be bigger or smaller to make up the piping distance.
#3. Most guys will say an intercooler is a waste of money unless you're pushing over 10psi regularly.
#4. what do you want to know about blow-off valves? their function is to release pressure built up in the intake tube when you let off the throttle. when you let off the gas from WOT, the turbo is still spinning 100,000rpms and pushing air at the throttle body, if the throttle blades are closed, they can actually be bent or broken off & thrown down the intake manifold from the pressure. Or the air basically bounces off the throttle blades & heads back to the turbo, if this happens the air can stop the turbine & make it spin backwards instantly, which is called compressor surge...and kills turbos quickly. when you let off the gas, the pressure inside the intake manifold goes from boost to vacuum and the vacuum pulls the valve inside the BOV open & releases that built up pressure to the atmosphere.
#5. fuel management is basically the same with turbos & superchargers, although turbos aren't belt driven, so the boost can come in much quicker (almost instantly in a properly sized setup) so you'll have to take that into account.
Alright, i'm not an expert on the subject, but I've picked up a lot in the past year I've been researching this.
#1. the vast majority of people adding a turbo are going to tee off of the oil pressure sending unit on the back of the block next to the distributor, thisalso applies for superchargers that don't have their own oil reservoir.
#2. this is strongly debated back and forth on turbo forums, people have had great success with the STS rear-mounted turbo's which are usually more than 10 feet from the TB. most of the argument is about the heat from the exhaust being dissapated before it gets back that far. I can't remember though if the turbo needs to be bigger or smaller to make up the piping distance.
#3. Most guys will say an intercooler is a waste of money unless you're pushing over 10psi regularly.
#4. what do you want to know about blow-off valves? their function is to release pressure built up in the intake tube when you let off the throttle. when you let off the gas from WOT, the turbo is still spinning 100,000rpms and pushing air at the throttle body, if the throttle blades are closed, they can actually be bent or broken off & thrown down the intake manifold from the pressure. Or the air basically bounces off the throttle blades & heads back to the turbo, if this happens the air can stop the turbine & make it spin backwards instantly, which is called compressor surge...and kills turbos quickly. when you let off the gas, the pressure inside the intake manifold goes from boost to vacuum and the vacuum pulls the valve inside the BOV open & releases that built up pressure to the atmosphere.
#5. fuel management is basically the same with turbos & superchargers, although turbos aren't belt driven, so the boost can come in much quicker (almost instantly in a properly sized setup) so you'll have to take that into account.
I have another question now. With twin turbos, obviously you run two diffrent sizes so that you dont have turbo lag at any particular rpm band, so how do you join the two (intake side) so that it doesnt cause backpressure to build on one or the other when one is at max boost and the other isnt?
depends what kind of twin turbo setup it is...most of the ones you'll see are using 2 identical size turbos. both will be a bit smaller so there isn't much lag off the line, and because there's only 1 bank of cylinders pushing them. Other twin turbos would use one small turbo to get off the line quickly and that turbo would feed into a larger turbo which would spool later and pick up the top end. i think the twin turbo 3000GT and Stealth R/T were setup this way from the factory. However most of the big dogs pushing lots of power have switched to a large single turbo to ease tuning & not have the small turbo being a restriction.
how the plumbing all works for the 2nd type of setup is beyond me though, their engine bay is one of the most complicated things i've witnessed.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
|
Champion
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 0
From:
RE: What do you know about turbos?
ORIGINAL: OlsenG_360
depends what kind of twin turbo setup it is...most of the ones you'll see are using 2 identical size turbos. both will be a bit smaller so there isn't much lag off the line, and because there's only 1 bank of cylinders pushing them. Other twin turbos would use one small turbo to get off the line quickly and that turbo would feed into a larger turbo which would spool later and pick up the top end. i think the twin turbo 3000GT and Stealth R/T were setup this way from the factory. However most of the big dogs pushing lots of power have switched to a large single turbo to ease tuning & not have the small turbo being a restriction.
how the plumbing all works for the 2nd type of setup is beyond me though
ORIGINAL: IndyRamMan
lol, i was looking at that. unfortunately it doesnt answer my questions.
thats very handy. thanks.
I have another question now. With twin turbos, obviously you run two diffrent sizes so that you dont have turbo lag at any particular rpm band, so how do you join the two (intake side) so that it doesnt cause backpressure to build on one or the other when one is at max boost and the other isnt?
ORIGINAL: OlsenG_360
Alright, i'm not an expert on the subject, but I've picked up a lot in the past year I've been researching this.
#1. the vast majority of people adding a turbo are going to tee off of the oil pressure sending unit on the back of the block next to the distributor, thisalso applies for superchargers that don't have their own oil reservoir.
#2. this is strongly debated back and forth on turbo forums, people have had great success with the STS rear-mounted turbo's which are usually more than 10 feet from the TB. most of the argument is about the heat from the exhaust being dissapated before it gets back that far. I can't remember though if the turbo needs to be bigger or smaller to make up the piping distance.
#3. Most guys will say an intercooler is a waste of money unless you're pushing over 10psi regularly.
#4. what do you want to know about blow-off valves? their function is to release pressure built up in the intake tube when you let off the throttle. when you let off the gas from WOT, the turbo is still spinning 100,000rpms and pushing air at the throttle body, if the throttle blades are closed, they can actually be bent or broken off & thrown down the intake manifold from the pressure. Or the air basically bounces off the throttle blades & heads back to the turbo, if this happens the air can stop the turbine & make it spin backwards instantly, which is called compressor surge...and kills turbos quickly. when you let off the gas, the pressure inside the intake manifold goes from boost to vacuum and the vacuum pulls the valve inside the BOV open & releases that built up pressure to the atmosphere.
#5. fuel management is basically the same with turbos & superchargers, although turbos aren't belt driven, so the boost can come in much quicker (almost instantly in a properly sized setup) so you'll have to take that into account.
Alright, i'm not an expert on the subject, but I've picked up a lot in the past year I've been researching this.
#1. the vast majority of people adding a turbo are going to tee off of the oil pressure sending unit on the back of the block next to the distributor, thisalso applies for superchargers that don't have their own oil reservoir.
#2. this is strongly debated back and forth on turbo forums, people have had great success with the STS rear-mounted turbo's which are usually more than 10 feet from the TB. most of the argument is about the heat from the exhaust being dissapated before it gets back that far. I can't remember though if the turbo needs to be bigger or smaller to make up the piping distance.
#3. Most guys will say an intercooler is a waste of money unless you're pushing over 10psi regularly.
#4. what do you want to know about blow-off valves? their function is to release pressure built up in the intake tube when you let off the throttle. when you let off the gas from WOT, the turbo is still spinning 100,000rpms and pushing air at the throttle body, if the throttle blades are closed, they can actually be bent or broken off & thrown down the intake manifold from the pressure. Or the air basically bounces off the throttle blades & heads back to the turbo, if this happens the air can stop the turbine & make it spin backwards instantly, which is called compressor surge...and kills turbos quickly. when you let off the gas, the pressure inside the intake manifold goes from boost to vacuum and the vacuum pulls the valve inside the BOV open & releases that built up pressure to the atmosphere.
#5. fuel management is basically the same with turbos & superchargers, although turbos aren't belt driven, so the boost can come in much quicker (almost instantly in a properly sized setup) so you'll have to take that into account.
I have another question now. With twin turbos, obviously you run two diffrent sizes so that you dont have turbo lag at any particular rpm band, so how do you join the two (intake side) so that it doesnt cause backpressure to build on one or the other when one is at max boost and the other isnt?
depends what kind of twin turbo setup it is...most of the ones you'll see are using 2 identical size turbos. both will be a bit smaller so there isn't much lag off the line, and because there's only 1 bank of cylinders pushing them. Other twin turbos would use one small turbo to get off the line quickly and that turbo would feed into a larger turbo which would spool later and pick up the top end. i think the twin turbo 3000GT and Stealth R/T were setup this way from the factory. However most of the big dogs pushing lots of power have switched to a large single turbo to ease tuning & not have the small turbo being a restriction.
how the plumbing all works for the 2nd type of setup is beyond me though
do you know as far as reliability is concerned, how turbos are compaired to s/cs? I know the general rule of thumb for adding "boost" or psi being not much more than 6 on a stock motor (im guessing probabily 8 max on the 360 because its 8.9:1 comp), but I dont know about the rods and pistons being able to handle the shock of the power surge when it finally spools.
Professional
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
From:
RE: What do you know about turbos?
i've heard 7-8 is the limit for stock headgaskets on the 318/360. there are exceptions to this though, a couple of the paxton & vortech s/c'ed guys are closer to 15psi on stock internals. i'm pretty sure they run intercoolers however. on another board i frequent there's a guy with the s/n Dunerwho has a turbo dakota r/t pushing 18psi at the track on a nearly stock block (i think eddy heads & an M1 are his only internal mods). i know he's running a water-to-air intercooler as well. i believe his r/t runs in the 10's. he hasa 4.7L dakota also which had a turbo at one time, almost identical setup as the r/t and it was running 11's or 12's. he removed the turbo from the 4.7 due to it being too unsafe while towing...everytime the cruise control would downshift...instant full boost & tire smoke [:-] he recently bought a new 3500 w/ cummins for towing, so maybe the turbo is going back on the 4.7
Captain
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
From: southbury CT
RE: What do you know about turbos?
go to your local book store, and pick up a copy of corkey bells maximum boost, book will answer ANY question you will ever have regaurding turbos/superchargers, and is a great read for anyone interested in turbos. trust me here, you wont regret it.
