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Is it better to advance or retard when doing your timing chain
#31
03-18-2008 | 01:54 AM
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RE: Is it better to advance or retard when doing your timing chain
ORIGINAL: rabbler
Quite possibly the smartest thing said here in a while.
ORIGINAL: mopowar
It does all depend on the what exactly the specs are on the cam though. It could very well be that the stock cam is ground with all of those features in mind, so that by advancing or retarding may be doing more harm than good. Most performance cams are ground for the desirable rpm range, and therefore ground to be installed straight up.
It does all depend on the what exactly the specs are on the cam though. It could very well be that the stock cam is ground with all of those features in mind, so that by advancing or retarding may be doing more harm than good. Most performance cams are ground for the desirable rpm range, and therefore ground to be installed straight up.
#35
03-18-2008 | 08:28 AM
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Plant City, FL
RE: Is it better to advance or retard when doing your timing chain
Well, I have to chime in on this. When I replaced my chain a couple of months back, I did the same question asking and research myself. I was given various opinions on what to do and read many more given to others. The most impressive and detailed description on the real world results of having all 3 setups was from "Indy". His description of his experience with the different setups was very convincing, and helpful. After careful consideration, I decided to do as he did and set it at 4* ret. All I can say is I'm glad I did. I lost no noticeable low end power at all from it, but I feel I gained mid to top end power. It also seems to get there much easier and faster, just like "Indy" described. Since the chain install, I have gotten the SCT Tuner and it has been programmed for this 4*ret and it has amplified the results. I was unsure which direction to go with the timing, but I noticed I found more positive feedback on setting it at 4* ret than I read on advancing it. I also noticed a few mildly negative results with advancing it, but not a single one on retarding it. After all of that, I decided on the 4* retard. Thanks again "Indy" for the excellent description and writeup!
#36
03-18-2008 | 11:28 AM
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RE: Is it better to advance or retard when doing your timing chain
ORIGINAL: ron333
Well, I have to chime in on this. When I replaced my chain a couple of months back, I did the same question asking and research myself. I was given various opinions on what to do and read many more given to others. The most impressive and detailed description on the real world results of having all 3 setups was from "Indy". His description of his experience with the different setups was very convincing, and helpful. After careful consideration, I decided to do as he did and set it at 4* ret. All I can say is I'm glad I did. I lost no noticeable low end power at all from it, but I feel I gained mid to top end power. It also seems to get there much easier and faster, just like "Indy" described. Since the chain install, I have gotten the SCT Tuner and it has been programmed for this 4*ret and it has amplified the results. I was unsure which direction to go with the timing, but I noticed I found more positive feedback on setting it at 4* ret than I read on advancing it. I also noticed a few mildly negative results with advancing it, but not a single one on retarding it. After all of that, I decided on the 4* retard. Thanks again "Indy" for the excellent description and writeup!
Well, I have to chime in on this. When I replaced my chain a couple of months back, I did the same question asking and research myself. I was given various opinions on what to do and read many more given to others. The most impressive and detailed description on the real world results of having all 3 setups was from "Indy". His description of his experience with the different setups was very convincing, and helpful. After careful consideration, I decided to do as he did and set it at 4* ret. All I can say is I'm glad I did. I lost no noticeable low end power at all from it, but I feel I gained mid to top end power. It also seems to get there much easier and faster, just like "Indy" described. Since the chain install, I have gotten the SCT Tuner and it has been programmed for this 4*ret and it has amplified the results. I was unsure which direction to go with the timing, but I noticed I found more positive feedback on setting it at 4* ret than I read on advancing it. I also noticed a few mildly negative results with advancing it, but not a single one on retarding it. After all of that, I decided on the 4* retard. Thanks again "Indy" for the excellent description and writeup!
#37
03-18-2008 | 12:38 PM
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RE: Is it better to advance or retard when doing your timing chain
From what I've gathered the older model rams may have a different cam than the newer models. The newer models (99-01) have different valve timing than the older models ( http://dodgeram.org/tech/gas/specs/valve-5_9.htm). The newer models seem to have more retard built into the cam. Without degreeing the cam you are taking a risk on getting the best results. So if anyone is thinking about doing this, you better do your homework.
#38
03-18-2008 | 02:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Plant City, FL
RE: Is it better to advance or retard when doing your timing chain
That's a somewhat amusing story. If you didn't read the post I did replying to someone else on this subject, in it I explained the scare I had. Yes I did have to reset the fuel sync. The following is where I posted my "scare".
https://dodgeforum.com/m_1153692/tm.htm
https://dodgeforum.com/m_1153692/tm.htm
#39
03-18-2008 | 03:15 PM
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RE: Is it better to advance or retard when doing your timing chain
Without knowing the actual specs of the cam and verifying such with a degree wheel you are basically guessing. The cam is designed for a specific power band and that advance or retard is built into the cam grind. Timing chains can also vary quite a bit from spec. Every thing automotive has a range of tolerance because nothing is perfect.
If your timing set is slightly retarded due to manufacture tolerance then you go -4 on the keyway and you get some chain stretch after a few miles (they all stretch in time) you could easily end up -7. That quite a bit off spec and could cause negative results.
I once had a replacement timing set that was so far off (not a dodge engine btw) it made the engine barely idle. Took quite a while to figure that one out.
Glad you guys had good results experimenting.
Just curious Indy did you retard your new custom cam or install it straight up?
If your timing set is slightly retarded due to manufacture tolerance then you go -4 on the keyway and you get some chain stretch after a few miles (they all stretch in time) you could easily end up -7. That quite a bit off spec and could cause negative results.
I once had a replacement timing set that was so far off (not a dodge engine btw) it made the engine barely idle. Took quite a while to figure that one out.
Glad you guys had good results experimenting.
Just curious Indy did you retard your new custom cam or install it straight up?
#40
03-18-2008 | 03:25 PM
RE: Is it better to advance or retard when doing your timing chain
I must have been really luck because I didn't have your problem, Ron.
Your post on the problem scared the **** out of me, I was sooo worried that I would mess something up. I did adjust my distributor a little to make sure the rotor was in the right place at TDC. So maybe that saved me from the fuel sync issue.
Mine idles sooo smooth now, I bought a 14x3 cleaner too just haven't put it on yet because I have to take the TB off again and all.
Off all that I did do the timing adjustment probably didn't do that much. Also I did the thermometer test on my cat today, and according to the temperature readings my cat is bad. I thought a clogged cat would throw a CEL.
Well that is my next job, then have to drop the tranny.
Still have to rebuild a 70hp Johnson outboard, pull the 5.0 out of my mustang, change the hood on my bimmer and paint the jag. Busy, but I love my hobby.
Your post on the problem scared the **** out of me, I was sooo worried that I would mess something up. I did adjust my distributor a little to make sure the rotor was in the right place at TDC. So maybe that saved me from the fuel sync issue.
Mine idles sooo smooth now, I bought a 14x3 cleaner too just haven't put it on yet because I have to take the TB off again and all.
Off all that I did do the timing adjustment probably didn't do that much. Also I did the thermometer test on my cat today, and according to the temperature readings my cat is bad. I thought a clogged cat would throw a CEL.
Well that is my next job, then have to drop the tranny.
Still have to rebuild a 70hp Johnson outboard, pull the 5.0 out of my mustang, change the hood on my bimmer and paint the jag. Busy, but I love my hobby.