okay- I dumped the crackberry and fired the 'puter back up to complete this shared thought, because, quite frankly it really pisses me off what happens to the fuel that's sold...

High volume stores generally are found off highways, no? Most people on highways are traveling, no? This is something not lost on the managers of this business- those mass movers are less likely to sell you a good product.. stay away from them if possible.. they just dump fuel in the ground to be dumped in your ride and off you go- they'll never see you again after they got your $.. what can you do? Drive into the little towns and find a small(ish) station and top off, or just never buy premium or mid grade from a mass mover..

As far as winter fuel goes- dudes: I am at a loss as to what you're talking about.. I'm a southerner and I don't have to contend with that BS... BUT- this stands to reason: winter in the north is dramatically different than the south primarily because of that white crap that falls clean from the heavens, right? That crap has to go somewhere, and it doesn't exactly wisk away downhill like it's counterpart here.. which means it just stands there.. and I'm thinking it can get into the ground tanks.. and wreak havoc.. I'm also thinking the levels of fuel drying chemicals are going to be much higher, because not only is that crap dripping into the tanks, it's also condensing inside the dang thing.. You guys got some ugly fuel problems up there, no? this is going to sound like a complete reversal of stance- but the mass movers are your friends in this situation.. because they move enough, fast enough that the tanks aren't going to be holding too much water... but don't expect to have the detergents or other additives in there.. so- add them yourself.. but just NEVER buy fuel from a mass mover right after the tanker left.. unless you plan on changing a fuel filter shortly thereafter..

okay- I'm tired.. in review:

small stations: higher quality fuel, less likely 'cut', most likely getting what you're paying for, more likely to have 'potion'.. bad in winter months (theoretically) for you yankees..

mass movers: scum bags ahem.. uh, lower quality fuel due to contamination in the three seasons, less likely to treat gas, more likely to sell sub-standard gas as premo.. but (theoretically) better in -cold- places in the winter months..


of subject: I was a kid when my pops got a call in the little hours.. The manager at Mars Hill was freaking out because he was about to get his **** kicked by about 50 customers (okay, maybe he was justified in his freaking out).. there were cars strung out all over Sams Gap who had just topped off at one of his stores before heading over the mountain.. We drove all the way flippin' over there (he took me to keep him awake- I was good for that, having the gift of gab and all).. When we arrived, the manager took us over to the fill pipes, and pointed to a water hose..

Some jerk (or jerkess) decided it would be a cool prank to pull the hose off the side of the store and stick it to the ground fuel tanks.. filled them right up.. and that store filled countless cars an a period of hours with wagas... ruh-roh.. From that point forward he had a rule which was "THERE WILL BE NO WATER OUTLETS OR WATER HOSES CAPABLE OF REACHING THE TANK FILLS WITHIN RANGE OF THE TANK FILLS OR I'LL KICK THE TEETHFUSSES OUT-YER-HEAD".... It was a good rule.. and those folks listened.. My ol' man was a bad dude and they likely believed him..

 

and one more thing- dang it..

though gas stations are required by law to 'not shop around' as stated in the article linked- they have no choice but to buy it from a regional pump.. that's the way gas in America works..

My father provided me with the insight on how gas works- this next bit is all mine:

I'm a defense contractor, and work in anti-terrorism.. Studies of infrastructure and how we protect those assets/vulnerabilities is the basis of my work.. Gas hubs and pump stations are a great concern.. This country can be shut down in no time if the pipelines and hubs fail.. We got a sneak preview of that when that hurricane hit Galveston a couple years ago.. There are maps available that can show you the regional pipelines and gas hubs.. Don't think for a second that nations who would like to see harm done here aren't aware of that.. It's a vulnerability that has been identified, but there is no easy solution..

It would only take about six months and we would all be playing Mad Max... I bet dodge owners would be the baddest on the road- not because we're all bad @$$'s, but because we'd be needing more fuel more often than- say- your average prius driver..

 

Dunno. Maybe I just need more octane. Whatever it is I have now had my eyes opened. Arco bad, Chevron better, half 76/half Trick 101 kick ***. I'm going to keep trying different stuff as I can't afford the $9/gal trick. I just wanted to see what would happen. Maybe as I run this tank off I'll try some super from shell or something with a bottle of some octane booster. Make that some shell from the well worn and beaten path since I'm up here in waterland rainy seattle area.

 

drewactual, you got the gas! Some interesting reading you have given me. Thanks for posting your knowledge!

 

Assuming, of course, that folks who are motivated to cause those failures exist within our borders, of which there is no evidence. Otherwise, I think it safe to count on those who profit most by keeping the energy flowing are going to keep those distribution systems functioning as they have for darn near a century. They've proven themselves reliable, for the most part, so far. (Yes, I can name those occasions when they have not. I've lived through them.)

I really don't mean to incite political fervor here, and I hope I don't, but I wouldn't mind catalyzing some rational thought and discussion. It seems to need doing in our world today, anyway. If nothing else, mass hysteria keeps the price of fuel elevated while I've got a very thirsty truck to feed. I'm good with hysteria when it's warranted, surely I am, but this ain't such a time.

And if time proves me wrong, go ahead and kick my *** publicly because by golly I'll deserve it and know that I do. All of my biggest mistakes are made publicly.

 

Drew, my dad was telling me about my grandfather seeing all the different stations tankers pulling up to one of those hubs and every last one of them filling up with the same gas then adding a quart or so of something or other to their tanks before they hit the road. So I'm inclined to believe what you're saying.

Ugly, I don't know what it is about Shell but I've gotten the best mileage from their 89 octane gas even though it gave me a little spark knock. I think I got the spark knock deal figured out though (engine issue that I fixed the other day).

 

And don't get me going about the gas companies and how they find every reason in the world to raise prices.. "some militant hoodlum in Sub-Sahara Africa attacks a pipeline with a chunk of concrete with intent on stealing it" which provides the basis for: "we better adjust the prices to compensate for that loss of 1k barrels by raising prices .15 across the U.S., even though we shot the effer dead and repaired the pipeline which flows about 5k barrels an hour, and even though it would take that 1k barrels more than six months to make it to a refinery, and even though we know we're going to make it up somewhere else anyway..".

when it's all said and done, oil companies have huge influence in every way on this rock.. politics, economies, security.. errrrrrrrr..

but back to what I was saying last night- those hubs are a vulnerability- however, once they leave the major inlets, it is much like the internet in the web it casts- you could shut down a regional hub, or pop the pipeline somewhere supplying that hub, but it will be sealed in no time flat and the flow diverted elsewhere.. furthermore, if'n your're a brave type, go poking around one of those hubs and see how long it takes for a bunch of ninjas to descend upon you.. They're being watched by DOE, and DOA to name just two federal agencies.. And, it is a very unknown fact- the DOE has the baddest **** group of floggin' highly trained DA teams in the business.. Notice I said DA, and NOT HRT or SWAT.. They ain't training to rescue nobody.. They're trained to get you to stop what you're doing as quickly and effectively as possible and deal with the legal ramifications afterward..

You don't hear about the vulnerabilities like these often, because that would be lunacy to discuss them in the open.. It's not like it carries a classification either (some details are, wider spectrum of conversation isn't)..

ALL that said, it would take one heckuva concerted and concentrated effort to shut the country down in that manner.. It's a heckuva antagonism though, if used in conjunction with something else.

I better shut up... I smell ninjas..

 

If you smell them then it's already too late.
It was nice knowing ya.

 

I think the biggest threat to refineries and such is profit motive. We had a lot more of 'em around before a rash of 'splosions in the 1990s, anyway, before the capacity shortage drove up the price of fuel.

 

EPA is playing a heckuva role in that too.. the only American refineries still open are those that grandfathered.. there is no way new ones can meet the regulations at this point.. If a natural disaster takes one out, either legislation has to change, or we're going to be paying out the yang for fuel, and watching it be refined overseas... which plays right back into various ridiculous reasons to jack the price, such as high tides, striking port pilots, ect.. on the bright side, we'd get a free can of real sea foam with every tank..