New brakes- Bad brake calipers!?
 

Hey guys, got a 99 ram 1500 4x4. Replaced front and rear brakes all around and it STILL feels like front brakes are seriously lacking (and I have 2500, 7500gvwr calipers). Rears feel quite strong, and pull an extra 20°F (infrared thermometer). Before I adjusted the drums it felt like I had little/no brakes at all.. Pedal is stiff, no air in line thanks to vacuum bleeder.

So my question is, does this sound like a caliper issue? I was considering it being a "bed-in" issue at first, but after seeing the temp difference and feeling how the truck stops.. Doesnt seem right .

TIA

Could siezed slides cause this sort of effect? One on each side was originally seized up but I managed to free and regrease them before reassembly..

the slides should be ok if you got them to break free and greased them up.
did you replace the hoses to the calipers?
when you're stopping, does the truck pull to one side?
what kind of shape are your front shocks in?
did you make sure the pads and rotors were clean when you put it back together?

Last brake job I installed braided steel brake lines, shocks are only a couple months old, no pulling to either side, everything was cleaned. Just the lack of a "bite." Ive used these pads before (Hawk HP's), but Im running AC Delco rotors this time instead of my $300+ EBC rotors that became trashed.. The outside edge of the rotors became extremely worn down.. I thought they were contaminated with grease, but now I'm thinking otherwise.

The truck definitely pulls more from the rear, like my worktruck Kenworth dually does.

I would try bleeding the brakes again, but this time with a friend to pump the pedal while a second person cracks open the line at each wheel. Also, make sure that you start with the wheel farthest away from the master cylinder, working your way back to the wheel closest to the master cylinder. I've used the vacuum bleeder in the past, but sometimes, it can let just a touch of air into the system. Lastly, I use DOT4 brake fluid due to its higher boiling point over DOT3 fluid.

I will give that a shot tomorrow, I'm thinking I still want to replace those calipers, just for peace of mind.. For some reason it always seems like the slide pins lock up over time, even with generous amounts of grease.. I literally pounded these ones out.

Did you clean the new rotors good before installation?

Sure did. Used dawn dish soap to get the real heavy stuff off, then liberally applied brake cleaner. About 2 years ago these calipers were "new," and they bit real nice from the get go. Ive only driven 100+ miles on the new brakes, but I know it doesnt take long to do irreversible damage either.

How were the old brake pads worn? Inner pad badly worn? outer pad not so much is an indicator of stuck slides, means the piston side is doing all the work. Pads worn on a slant? Possibly one pin seized. Brakes don't release? Possible bad hose.
The dot 4 upgrade is a good idea. I've been experimenting with DOT 5.1 Has an even higher boil temp. Not to be confused with DOT 5, which is a full synthetic fluid and is not compatible with our brake systems(ABS does not like full synthetic) New hoses can help, but generally I only replace them when they show signs of cracking. Keep the rears adjusted correctly, possibly upgrade the rear wheel cylinders to the larger bore version. Not sold on the stainless braided line. I've installed tons on bikes, but generally more for looks, and price, they are usually cheaper than OEM.
I've never been impressed with the stock brakes, they have always seemed kind of lackluster. I believe, personally, that the sizing is barely adequate. Bigger rotors and calipers would have made more sense, as would 4 wheel discs, but, it is what it is.

Honestly I would have to look at them again, but I recall either the inner/outer being more worn down than the other. I definitely had 1 pin on each side that was SEIZED. Maybe its possible the pin seized causing the piston to work harder causing some sore of internal failure?

ALSO, I keep forgetting to mention.. When I bled the brakes, at first I had rust/corrosion bleeding directly from the calipers. That a sign of anything in particular?

As for the the braided steel lines - definitely worth it. Since Ive owned 2nd gen Ram trucks (10 years), I've never had a stiffer pedal, especially with the vavuum bleeder.

Brake fluid is Hygroscopic. It absorbs moisture. Okay you say, but it's a sealed system? No, it's not, the cap is vented, so air can enter, preventing a vacuum. This small amount of air contains moisture. Factor in temperature changes, leading to condensation in the master cylinder, and it's actually quite a large amount of water that the fluid is exposed to, relatively. Now, this water reacts with the metal parts in the system, corrosion for aluminum, and rust for steel. Eventually these contaminates settle in the lowest parts of the system, the lowest part being the calipers. Over time, given enough moisture, this can lead to pitting of the calipers and wheel cylinders, and sometimes brake lines( leading to failure from the inside) If it gets bad enough, a seal will tear, and the part fails. Granted, this generally only happens over years of neglect. Brake bleeding is routine maintenance, once a year is good, but even every couple of years is fine. The muck you see come out is the stuff that has settled, it's corrosion/rust. Brake fluid that contains water also compresses more than straight brake fluid, resulting in a soft feel to the pedal, it also has a lower boiling point, which can get really interesting on a long downgrade hauling 8000 lbs. Ask me how I know.......
Okay science lesson over. :-)

I'm the guy that blew the windows out of the chem lab when I was 13........... :-)

LMAO, thats quite halarious.. After the fact of course :) I do know something about that.. I drive a bomb on wheels (propane truck) for a living. So I appreciate the science lesson, hopefully the new calipers and another brake bleeding fix the issue.. Im just surprised cause the calipers are only 1-2 years old.. Seems like more and more remans come from the same cores and they come out worse and worse.. Makes owning a 20 year old truck quite the PITA

Just wanted to follow up with you all. Ended up straightening everything out, and now I've got some serious "bite." :) Upgraded from the 7500gvw calipers to the 8800's, bled the brakes thoroughly, and used my infrared thermometer to dial in the drums. I also eliminated the check valve for my trans, feels like a completely different truck, thanks guys!!!

One thing thats bugging me, is my star wheel on left rear drum spins freely.. This is due to the spring (that holds the shoes together at the bottom) being too close to the star wheel and preventing the "stopper" (no idea what to call that) from sitting in the grooves of the star wheel to keep it from spinning.. Anyone have some insight on this? Ive tried moving the spring around and nothing works.

reverse the spring mountings. Basically, take it off, flip it around, put it back on. See if that helps.

The 8800 calipers fit your 1500?

Tried it already.. 4 different ways and still didnt get the right clearance. Both star wheels face the rear of the truck right? I notice I have another slot in the back plate of the drum to punch out another hole, dont think it will make a difference either way though

They sure do. The only difference in the 7500 and 8800gvwr calipers is the size of the piston being about .3" bigger. From what Ive heard you CAN'T use dual piston calipers.

Im using 2500 pads as well (which are taller and cover more of the rotors surface area). The only "downside" I can see with the 8800's is the pad that clips into the piston doesnt hold in as nicely as the 7500's. Doesnt appear to be an issue though.

You might have the adjuster in the wrong way. Also the adjusters are different on each side, maybe someone replaced them both with the same part, not realizing they are different.

See, that's what I thought too. Unless one is left hand thread, and the other is right hand threads...... otherwise, one side would be adjusting it looser......

I thought all 8800 had dual pistons though

I think that started in 98 or 99. My 96 8800GVW 2500 has single-piston calipers.

Interesting. Can you take 8800 dual calipers and put them on a 8800 single caliper?

Nope. I wish I could. :) The calipers are a LOT bigger..... so, don't fit the mounts. I haven't looked at my 98 yet, to see which calipers are under there.

Even if both axles are 2500

My 96 was an 8800# gvw, and it had the single piston calipers. No way the dual piston calipers would fit. Would have to change the knuckles as well.

Never even thought of that, it would be pointless to swap the adjuster the other way. Wonder if I just got the wrong spring, no issues on the other side .

To the OP-
I would bleed a full (new UN-opened or recently opened) bottle of brake fluid through your system starting at the rear passenger side and working forward. Bleed each wheel until the new fluid (clear fluid) comes out the bleeders. This may sound like a pain but a good vacuum bleeder with ample grease around the bleeder valves themselves, to keep air out, will make short work of it. Jacking each wheel of the ground and spin the tires by hand is a good and easy way to check for excessive brake drag.
Make sure to have the rear drums adjusted pretty 'tight'. the rear brakes should drag slightly. By doing it this way you will get good solid pedal feel.
Id suspect that your new pads just need 'bed or broken' in, like you mentioned. This can take up to 500 miles for them to seat properly and bond with the rotor.
If you used an existing rotor with new pads, it is a good idea to scuff up the rotor face to remove any existing glazing from the old pads.
These are just some tips ive had good success using on my 01' ram 1500 4x4. I have 37" tires and my truck stops better then my 08 f150 on stock tires. Though my EBC greenstuff pads play a big role in that!

Good luck.

Ive never heard of the grease around the fittings trick, I will have to try that out! I always use teflon tape on the bleeders, this time around air was still getting passed the bleeders.. I was considering trying "pipe dope" but idk if thats a good idea.

Pipe dope will make the next time you try and bleed your brakes rather difficult. :) I use teflon tape as well, if the rust around them isn't enough to seal them....... if you still get air passed the threads, put a couple more raps of tape on 'em. :)

I think the adjuster arm is also different, along with opposite threads in the adjuster wheel.

Yes, adjuster arm is "side specific." I recall having this issue once before as well, but it wasnt nearly as bad. I believe I have everything correctly installed, but no matter which way I try the spring, it interferes with the arm catching the star wheel.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/dodgefo...4e95541df0.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/dodgefo...809748e26b.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/dodgefo...7099b61af1.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/dodgefo...b71c211aeb.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/dodgefo...e6c4f098bb.jpg


Sorry they aren't very good, but hopefully you can compare to yours. My truck is a 95.

The 1st couple pics are of the drivers side drum, right? Mine look exactly thesame, except I cant see the spring holding the 2 shoes together at the bottom.. Does it hold together behind the star wheel? Also, when I replaced my drums both sides (for the shoes) used all yellow springs (I copied what was already there in the drums), maybe I need to try one of the green springs instead...

Yes, the first two are drivers side.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/dodgefo...ba98b5d44c.jpg

I zoomed in and then took a picture of the picture. Looks like the spring is on the back side.

Thank you!! Im going to get another hardware kit this morning and get it figured out.

I ended up fixing the star wheel issue. First I had to bend the long end of the spring to get clearance around the star wheel.. Then I noticed the adjuster arm had some slack in it. Turns out the metal rod that applies tension to the arm was slightly too long.. So I bent that too, now the star wheel works perfectly. I got 2 hardware kits, and both had "faulty" parts.

Now Im having problems with the front brakes.. They brake good, but I'm getting a fairly strong pull to the left.. Would this indicate a sticking piston? I noticed just my front left wheel was locking up the tire on my gravel driveway.

Yesterday I checked all the slides and regreased them.. During the process a dab of grease got on one of the pads, (must have been from sliding the caliper bolt through the slide) which I noticed after a short test drive.. Took everything back apart, sanded a layer off all the pads, scrubbed the rotors/pads with dawn dish soap, then hit them with brake cleaner... Still pulling to left. Im hating this "project" right now. Hopefully pads/rotors will be ok, they looked fine still.

You replaced both front calipers didn't you? Or was that another thread????

Either the right front caliper isn't getting equal pressure, or something else is hung up? What all have you replaced on the fronts??

If your brake pads got contaminated and you drove on them, i would replace them.

If you used them with grease on them, it soaked in farther then what you sanded when they got hot during braking.