View Poll Results: Brand of plug your running with:
AC Delco
5
1.12%
Autolite
32
7.19%
Bosch
36
8.09%
Champion
238
53.48%
E3
24
5.39%
NGK
105
23.60%
Other: Please specify in a post
5
1.12%
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Spark Plugs

 
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Old Jul 26, 2013 | 12:42 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Old man with a Hemi2
You know dodge dude, copper plugs have been around forever. They were all you could buy when I was YOUR age. The newer platinum and iridium plugs came about when manufacturers went to high energy ignition systems, which is also what the hemis have on them. I don't understand what 08 Hemi is talking about when he says the new plugs are trouble in hemi engines. Lets face it they either spark or they don't, and if they don't then it's either a bad plug, which you can also get with coppers, or it's because there is a problem somewhere else in the ignition system. Blaming a spark plug for all the problems that may be occurring is like blaming a condom that you've put a hole in, for an unwanted pregnancy. If anyones hemi wont run on platinums, it's because they also have other issues. My coppers from the factory were changed at 50,000 miles and now have 110,000 miles and 60,000 miles on Platinums, so to me it doesn't look like we need any one kind of plug to make hemi engines run satisfactorily. How is your truck running with whatever you put in it
Well, technically, I am exempt from the convo, as I have a 2nd gen, but I run the Autolite 3923 coppers. Basically "race" plugs. Non-protruded tip, cool heat range. Runs well, I just have to SeaFoam it every once in a while when I get ping due to the cold heat range allowing carbon build up. I've thought about putting my stock heat range Champs back in, but meh. lol The platinum vs. copper thing is much more true in the older engines like the Magnums and even (IMO) the earlier 4.7s. The platinums retard ignition timing on those engines. So the Hemi likely does better as it has a better and stronger ignition system. But, that's my 2 cents.
 
Old Jul 26, 2013 | 12:57 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Old man with a Hemi2
You know dodge dude, copper plugs have been around forever. They were all you could buy when I was YOUR age.
Not true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_plug

On modern (post 1930's) spark plugs, the tip of the insulator protruding into the combustion chamber is the same sintered aluminium oxide (alumina) ceramic as the upper portion, merely unglazed. It is designed to withstand 650 °C (1,200 °F) and 60,000 volts.
The dimensions of the insulator and the metal conductor core determine the heat range of the plug. Short insulators are usually "cooler" plugs, while "hotter" plugs are made with a lengthened path to the metal body, though this also depends on the thermally conductive metal core.
Older spark plugs, particularly in aircraft, used an insulator made of stacked layers of mica, compressed by tension in the centre electrode.

Illustration of compressed mica insulator from 1928.


With the development of leaded petrol in the 1930s, lead deposits on the mica became a problem and reduced the interval between needing to clean the spark plug. Sintered alumina was developed by Siemens in Germany to counteract this.[6] Sintered alumina is a superior material to mica or porcelain because it is a relatively good thermal conductor for a ceramic, it maintains good mechanical strength and (thermal) shock resistance at higher temperatures, and this ability to run hot allows it to be run at "self cleaning" temperatures without rapid degradation. It also allows a simple single piece construction at low cost but high mechanical reliability.

At one time, spark plugs could be rebuilt.



Originally Posted by Old man with a Hemi2
The newer platinum and iridium plugs came about when manufacturers went to high energy ignition systems, which is also what the hemis have on them.
The newer plugs were developed because manufacturers worked to do away with tune-ups, meaning spark plugs would last 100K miles before needing to be replaced.

At one time it was common to remove the spark plugs, clean deposits off the ends either manually or with specialized sandblasting equipment and file the end of the electrode to restore the sharp edges, but this practice has become less frequent for two reasons: 1. cleaning with tools such as a wire brush leaves traces of metal on the insulator which can provide a weak conduction path and thus weaken the spark (increasing emissions) 2. plugs are so cheap relative to labor cost, economics dictate replacement, particularly with modern long-life plugs.

The development of noble metal high temperature electrodes (using metals such as yttrium, iridium, tungsten, or palladium, as well as the relatively high value platinum, silver or gold) allows the use of a smaller center wire, which has sharper edges but will not melt or corrode away. These materials are used because of their high melting points and durability, not because of their electrical conductivity (which is irrelevant in series with the plug resistor or wires). The smaller electrode also absorbs less heat from the spark and initial flame energy. At one point, Firestone marketed plugs with polonium in the tip, under the (questionable) theory that the radioactivity would ionize the air in the gap, easing spark formation.
http://www.counterman.com/Article/95...ark_plugs.aspx

The newest spark plug technology can be summed up in one word: Iridium. This relatively rare metal is challenging platinum as the metal of choice for today’s spark plugs. Platinum has held that title since 1985, when Bosch introduced its first platinum spark plugs. The heat- and wear-resistant properties of platinum electrodes allows most of these plugs to go upward of 100,000 miles before they have to be replaced.

For automakers and motorists who want longer spark plug service intervals, platinum plugs have been an excellent upgrade over standard plugs. Platinum plugs do command a higher price, sometimes two to four times more than a standard plug. Even so, when the much longer service life of platinum plugs is taken into account, they are usually more economical than standard spark plugs.

When platinum plugs first appeared, they were used primarily in a handful of European luxury makes. As the list of OEM applications grew, other vehicle manufacturers began clamoring for long-life plugs, too. Before long, other spark plug suppliers began offering their own long-life plugs, including some with gold palladium electrodes. Most, however, offered either single- or double-platinum electrodes (the latter having a small platinum button welded to both the center and ground electrodes).

Long-life platinum plugs also created a whole new segment for premium replacement spark plugs in the aftermarket. Prior to this, parts stores could only offer standard replacement spark plugs (either the OEM brand or a competing brand), or some type of “performance” spark plug with an enhanced electrode design that reduced misfires and improved performance. A lot of “hocus pocus” science and marketing hype surrounded many of these electrode designs. Yet in spite of the claims that were being made for some of these plugs, none could match the longevity of platinum plugs.

IRIDIUM: THE CHALLENGER
In 1994, the first iridium spark plugs were introduced by NGK as a long-life alternative to platinum plugs. Why iridium? Because iridium has a higher melting temperature than platinum, it is six times harder than platinum, and it is more corrosion-resistant than platinum or most other metals. NGK developed a fine wire electrode with an iridium tip that offered many of the advantages of a performance spark plug (concentrated spark and reduced firing voltage requirements) with long wear characteristics comparable to or possibly even better than platinum.

As with platinum spark plugs, the initial use of iridium plugs was limited to a handful of import makes (Japanese nameplates). But as the list of OEM applications has grown, so has the demand for aftermarket iridium replacement spark plugs. Most spark plug suppliers want the ability to offer their customers replacement spark plugs that are OEM equivalent in their product lines. If they don’t have iridium spark plugs, chances are they will lose sales to competitors who do. And as more domestic and European automakers switch to iridium plugs, the demand will continue to grow.
Many of the Second Gen Dodge owners "upgraded" from Champion plugs to Autolites. My truck didn't like them, as it would develop a misfire on #5, act sluggish on acceleration, and excessively consumed fuel. I believe those who have no such issues with the Autolites in their Magnum engines are also running a performance tune.

Overall, every piece of the ignition system must be properly set up in order for the system as a whole to operate. The engine computer is programmed for the average driver for average conditions, hence why it is advisable for the owner to stick with stock replacement parts. If any one part of the system is changed, ALL of the variables must be reviewed lest performance be affected.
 
Old Jul 27, 2013 | 09:10 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by VWandDodge
Not true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_plug




At one time, spark plugs could be rebuilt.





The newer plugs were developed because manufacturers worked to do away with tune-ups, meaning spark plugs would last 100K miles before needing to be replaced.



http://www.counterman.com/Article/95...ark_plugs.aspx



Many of the Second Gen Dodge owners "upgraded" from Champion plugs to Autolites. My truck didn't like them, as it would develop a misfire on #5, act sluggish on acceleration, and excessively consumed fuel. I believe those who have no such issues with the Autolites in their Magnum engines are also running a performance tune.

Overall, every piece of the ignition system must be properly set up in order for the system as a whole to operate. The engine computer is programmed for the average driver for average conditions, hence why it is advisable for the owner to stick with stock replacement parts. If any one part of the system is changed, ALL of the variables must be reviewed lest performance be affected.



In the late seventies, the development of engines reached a stage where the ‘heat range’ of conventional spark plugs with solid nickel alloy centre electrodes was unable to cope with their demands. A plug that was ‘cold’ enough to cope with the demands of high speed driving would not be able to burn off the carbon deposits caused by stop-start urban conditions, and would foul in these conditions, making the engine misfire. Similarly, a plug that was ‘hot’ enough to run smoothly in town, could melt when called upon to cope with extended high speed running on motorways. The answer to this problem, devised by the spark plug manufacturers, was a centre electrode that carried the heat of combustion away from the tip more effectively than was possible with a solid nickel alloy. Copper was the material chosen for the task and a method for manufacturing the copper-cored centre electrode was created by Floform.


Well guess what, in the seventies, I was his age Einstein
 
Old Jul 27, 2013 | 09:26 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Old man with a Hemi2
In the late seventies, the development of engines reached a stage where the ‘heat range’ of conventional spark plugs with solid nickel alloy centre electrodes was unable to cope with their demands. A plug that was ‘cold’ enough to cope with the demands of high speed driving would not be able to burn off the carbon deposits caused by stop-start urban conditions, and would foul in these conditions, making the engine misfire. Similarly, a plug that was ‘hot’ enough to run smoothly in town, could melt when called upon to cope with extended high speed running on motorways. The answer to this problem, devised by the spark plug manufacturers, was a centre electrode that carried the heat of combustion away from the tip more effectively than was possible with a solid nickel alloy. Copper was the material chosen for the task and a method for manufacturing the copper-cored centre electrode was created by Floform.


Well guess what, in the seventies, I was his age Einstein
You stated:
Originally Posted by Old man with a Hemi2
You know dodge dude, copper plugs have been around forever. They were all you could buy when I was YOUR age.
and that statement is not true.
 
Old Jul 28, 2013 | 10:42 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by VWandDodge
You stated:

and that statement is not true.

Ok, maybe I should have said, when coppers came out, very few of the other plugs were sold. I worked in an auto parts store, when coppers came out and they just about wiped out all the other challengers, or at least it seemed that way. They were far superior to the older plugs
 
Old Jul 28, 2013 | 10:55 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Old man with a Hemi2
Ok, maybe I should have said, when coppers came out, very few of the other plugs were sold. I worked in an auto parts store, when coppers came out and they just about wiped out all the other challengers, or at least it seemed that way. They were far superior to the older plugs
Lets just get this out of the way: You're old.





Also FWIW, I'm thinking about going back to my stock Champions to see if I get any mileage benefit from them.
 
Old Jul 29, 2013 | 04:39 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by dodge dude94
Lets just get this out of the way: You're old.





Also FWIW, I'm thinking about going back to my stock Champions to see if I get any mileage benefit from them.

I doubt you will, but then again after running race plugs, you might, and yes, I'm old, but not dead....yet...lol
 
Old Jul 29, 2013 | 04:47 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Old man with a Hemi2
I doubt you will, but then again after running race plugs, you might, and yes, I'm old, but not dead....yet...lol
I could always try. They are projected nose, factory (emissions) heat range plugs. So they would have a built in timing advance in theory.
 
Old Sep 4, 2013 | 07:43 PM
  #119  
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I got platinum plugs in my 08 3.7L 6cyl and got almost 50k on them just getting ready to change them out.. Just didn't notice any gain with them.
 
Old Sep 5, 2013 | 10:45 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by bigpete1125
I got platinum plugs in my 08 3.7L 6cyl and got almost 50k on them just getting ready to change them out.. Just didn't notice any gain with them.

With a 3.7, what kind of a gain were you expecting. I saw no performance gain in my Hemi either, just longevity. I'm working on 70,000 miles on them now. At 50,000 miles I doubt you will see any need at all to change them when you pull them out
 



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