Ram VS. Titan
Professional
Joined: Feb 2005
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From:
RE: Ram VS. Titan
Horatio you are dead on in your response to my post...I'm fairly confident that my new ram if it ever gets here will be a really great truck. The longevity of the Japanese products is unsurpassed. I think the merge with Diamler is also a big plus for Chrysler the quality will continue to evolve. Lastly there are literally hundreds of 1995 Caravans in my area for $500-$1000.
ORIGINAL: horatio102
japanese reliability is traditionally far superior. Resale values are based in part upon reliability. Take a look at 10-15 year old trucks from Toyota and Dodge. You'll find both of them in the 10-15k price range, but 7 out of the top 10 on autotrader were toyotas (based upon price), excluding the $28k dodge that was for sale with a 34' trailer. Nearly all of the$10k+ dodges were diesels, which retailed new far more than the toyotas which are worth more now.
Hey, I love my Dodge, but I've replaced 3 alternators, power steering gear, steering shaft, front driveshaft slip yoke, all kinds of seals, etc. etc. etc.... It's got 250k miles on it, but it's on the second engine, second tranny (at least), and the transfer case was completely rebuilt while I had the tranny out.
Why is it that most of the 5 year old honda odysseys are in the 14-20k range whereas similar age caravans are in the 8-14k range? A ten year old Honda will still run you several thousand, but you can get ten year old Caravans for under $500.
japanese reliability is traditionally far superior. Resale values are based in part upon reliability. Take a look at 10-15 year old trucks from Toyota and Dodge. You'll find both of them in the 10-15k price range, but 7 out of the top 10 on autotrader were toyotas (based upon price), excluding the $28k dodge that was for sale with a 34' trailer. Nearly all of the$10k+ dodges were diesels, which retailed new far more than the toyotas which are worth more now.
Hey, I love my Dodge, but I've replaced 3 alternators, power steering gear, steering shaft, front driveshaft slip yoke, all kinds of seals, etc. etc. etc.... It's got 250k miles on it, but it's on the second engine, second tranny (at least), and the transfer case was completely rebuilt while I had the tranny out.
Why is it that most of the 5 year old honda odysseys are in the 14-20k range whereas similar age caravans are in the 8-14k range? A ten year old Honda will still run you several thousand, but you can get ten year old Caravans for under $500.
Champion
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 2
From: Skagit County, WA
RE: Ram VS. Titan
Go for it. A brief search of Autotrader.com revealed 112 Caravan, Grand Caravan, and Voyagers for sale at $1000 and below from 1990-1997. A friend of mine owns 3, and I think his total was about $1000. Check your local auto auctions too. Or eBay.
First time I saw or even heard of the ridgeline was late one night while out of town on a drive. It's an UGLY truck. I dismissed it as being a POS. But then I read up about it. It's not a competitor to the Titan, Ram, or any other full size truck. It will, however, take some sales away from the Dakota (which is also *** ugly) as well as the rest of the compact 4-door truck market. It would also take sales away from the Subaru Baja, if anybody was buying those things (and I'm a subaru guy first and foremost).
Honda is one of the most brilliant auto makers out there. They saw a niche, and they have possibly built a vehicle to fill that niche perfectly. We can only hope for a swift facelift to correct its most obvious flaws. But get beyond the sheet metal and I think you'll realize that for most city slickers it's a better "truck" for their needs than a real truck.
ORIGINAL: mopartodd
Where on earth are you able to buy a running 10 YO caravan for $500?? I could buy several and make a killing reselling them.
Where on earth are you able to buy a running 10 YO caravan for $500?? I could buy several and make a killing reselling them.
First time I saw or even heard of the ridgeline was late one night while out of town on a drive. It's an UGLY truck. I dismissed it as being a POS. But then I read up about it. It's not a competitor to the Titan, Ram, or any other full size truck. It will, however, take some sales away from the Dakota (which is also *** ugly) as well as the rest of the compact 4-door truck market. It would also take sales away from the Subaru Baja, if anybody was buying those things (and I'm a subaru guy first and foremost).
Honda is one of the most brilliant auto makers out there. They saw a niche, and they have possibly built a vehicle to fill that niche perfectly. We can only hope for a swift facelift to correct its most obvious flaws. But get beyond the sheet metal and I think you'll realize that for most city slickers it's a better "truck" for their needs than a real truck.
Champion
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 2
From: Skagit County, WA
RE: Ram VS. Titan
That's pretty funny, considering your truck was probably built in Mexico, by citizens of some country other than the United States, and the profits wound up lining the pockets of a German company. IIRC there are more Americans building "import" cars than there are building "domestics" now. I think the Titan was designed in California, built in Tennessee or something, and the money trail stops in Europe.
General Motors doesn't have a problem buying imports. They own a fairly hefty chunk of FHI, the parent company of Subaru, which explains how Saab ended up selling a face-lifted WRX wagon. Ford doesn't have a problem with it either - ever notice the relationship they maintain with Mazda? And you already know all of the European marks they control as well.
And shoot, Chrysler shouldn't be any different, because they got their *** bought out by an "import".
It's a global economy now. The whole idea of domestic versus import is a leftover from the bigoted cold war era and before. Mini Coopers have Neon based engines (until the redesign in 06 or so). The Pontiac Vibe is a rebadged Toyota.
General Motors doesn't have a problem buying imports. They own a fairly hefty chunk of FHI, the parent company of Subaru, which explains how Saab ended up selling a face-lifted WRX wagon. Ford doesn't have a problem with it either - ever notice the relationship they maintain with Mazda? And you already know all of the European marks they control as well.
And shoot, Chrysler shouldn't be any different, because they got their *** bought out by an "import".
It's a global economy now. The whole idea of domestic versus import is a leftover from the bigoted cold war era and before. Mini Coopers have Neon based engines (until the redesign in 06 or so). The Pontiac Vibe is a rebadged Toyota.
ORIGINAL: |3|ackAc|D
id buy american before id buy Import... EVER
id buy american before id buy Import... EVER
Record Breaker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,233
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From: DFW, Texas
RE: Ram VS. Titan
exactly why your comment on how the japanese trucks will last longer is a bunch of mumbo jumbo at this point!
Think about it Horatio, if you pile a bunch of parts in front of me and my local auto union buddies and told us to build a vehicle out of them, do you think it really matters who designed the thing to us as we build it, no. The quality will end up being the same regardless if is a Dodge, Ford, Chevy, Nissan, Toyota, Mazda, BMW, Benz or whatever...
Things have changed alot since the years of those cheap caravans that your talking about, now there are many more foriegn manu's having cars built here, using parts from vendors that make the same parts for all of the domestics. Everything from electronic mudules and wiring harnesses, to the interior door panels, seats, brakes, sheet metal and other stuff. Usually about the only thing that is japanese to any extent is the motor and tranny assembly which might come from overseas. I had a 2001 Toyota double cab that was built in Cali and had a motor/tranny from japan, but as to the fit and finish of the inside/outside, it was all the same type of plastic and no better quality than my Dodge is.
And you know what, its a better thing to have had Daimler purchase a majority interest in Chrysler than it is to have GM buy out other foriegn companies, or Ford do the same... Daimler makes the finest automobiles on the planet - Mercedez Benz. To have that technology filter down into the entire line can only make Chrysler Corp cars better. But look at it the other way, Ford buys into companies like Jaguar which is renowned for having maintenance intensive cars going back for years and years, GM buys into SAAB which has an equally bad track record. How do those help them, they dont, its ford and chevy helping out saab and jag, its backwards. The new jags look like a fancy ford taurus even.
Somehow for every post that I read of yours, you are always bashing Dodge and its counterpart Chrysler, what is up with that... are you just not happy with your Dodge experience or what?
Think about it Horatio, if you pile a bunch of parts in front of me and my local auto union buddies and told us to build a vehicle out of them, do you think it really matters who designed the thing to us as we build it, no. The quality will end up being the same regardless if is a Dodge, Ford, Chevy, Nissan, Toyota, Mazda, BMW, Benz or whatever...
Things have changed alot since the years of those cheap caravans that your talking about, now there are many more foriegn manu's having cars built here, using parts from vendors that make the same parts for all of the domestics. Everything from electronic mudules and wiring harnesses, to the interior door panels, seats, brakes, sheet metal and other stuff. Usually about the only thing that is japanese to any extent is the motor and tranny assembly which might come from overseas. I had a 2001 Toyota double cab that was built in Cali and had a motor/tranny from japan, but as to the fit and finish of the inside/outside, it was all the same type of plastic and no better quality than my Dodge is.
And you know what, its a better thing to have had Daimler purchase a majority interest in Chrysler than it is to have GM buy out other foriegn companies, or Ford do the same... Daimler makes the finest automobiles on the planet - Mercedez Benz. To have that technology filter down into the entire line can only make Chrysler Corp cars better. But look at it the other way, Ford buys into companies like Jaguar which is renowned for having maintenance intensive cars going back for years and years, GM buys into SAAB which has an equally bad track record. How do those help them, they dont, its ford and chevy helping out saab and jag, its backwards. The new jags look like a fancy ford taurus even.
Somehow for every post that I read of yours, you are always bashing Dodge and its counterpart Chrysler, what is up with that... are you just not happy with your Dodge experience or what?
Champion
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 2
From: Skagit County, WA
RE: Ram VS. Titan
It's not just Dodge that I bash, it's all of the formerly big 3. They've been playing catch up for the past 30 years. Thirty years. And they still haven't got it. Compare a Neon to a Civic. Initial quality might appear similar when brand new, but 3 years from now the Neon is going to be in a lot worse shape. Same goes with the Focus. How many recalls have the Neon and Focus had? How many recalls has Toyota or Honda had in total? Go ahead and compare a Lincoln to a Lexus. You'll notice a distinct difference there.
It's not that I've had a bad experience with my truck that makes me think ill of the "american" autos, but rather my experience with EVERY "american" auto I've owned.
96 Bronco - iffy brakes led to a bout with a concrete barrier. Only owned it long enough to crash it and fix it
99 Grand Cherokee - too much to list, but it was back at my local 5 star over 20 times in 2 years for different things, had the entire rear suspension replaced, driveshaft, power steering, t-case had the wrong oil from the factory, rear window replaced, roof rails replaced, etc.
89 grand caravan - tranny blew at 5000 miles, 124000 miles, 130000 miles, engine replaced at 124k as well
that's the short list. The fact remains that american standards are lower than the japanese standards, which is why our stuff doesn't hold up as well in the long run. And don't get me started on Unions. They served their purpose in the past, but for the last 50 years or so they've been detrimental to the economy IMHO.
It's not that I've had a bad experience with my truck that makes me think ill of the "american" autos, but rather my experience with EVERY "american" auto I've owned.
96 Bronco - iffy brakes led to a bout with a concrete barrier. Only owned it long enough to crash it and fix it
99 Grand Cherokee - too much to list, but it was back at my local 5 star over 20 times in 2 years for different things, had the entire rear suspension replaced, driveshaft, power steering, t-case had the wrong oil from the factory, rear window replaced, roof rails replaced, etc.
89 grand caravan - tranny blew at 5000 miles, 124000 miles, 130000 miles, engine replaced at 124k as well
that's the short list. The fact remains that american standards are lower than the japanese standards, which is why our stuff doesn't hold up as well in the long run. And don't get me started on Unions. They served their purpose in the past, but for the last 50 years or so they've been detrimental to the economy IMHO.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 38
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From:
RE: Ram VS. Titan
just got my hemi last week, i couldent decide between the ford and the nissan and dodge, i liked the room in the titan, the back seat had much more room, but it just felt like every bumb i hit in the titan the bed moved, and it just felt like it wasent a well made truck, ive always been a nissan fan but the hemi won me over.
Record Breaker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,233
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From: DFW, Texas
RE: Ram VS. Titan
"Compare a Neon to a Civic. Initial quality might appear similar when brand new, but 3 years from now the Neon is going to be in a lot worse shape. Same goes with the Focus. How many recalls have the Neon and Focus had? How many recalls has Toyota or Honda had in total? Go ahead and compare..."
Well Horatio,not trying to waste too much of my time on this, but once again YOUR WRONG!!!
You obviously dont check your facts before opening your mouth about stuff you really dont know what your talking about, just because you have had a couple of cars that had problems doesnt mean they are all bad, lets go over some figures that you apparently didnt look up, but yet are readily available via the internet at the governments recall site:
Number of recalls per year
Neon - ][ - Civic
---------------------
1996 - 2 ][ 3
1997 - 1 ][ 3
1998 - 1 ][ 3
1999 - 0 ][ 1
2000 - 5 ][ 3
2001 - 4 ][ 6
2002 - 0 ][ 2
2003 - 0 ][ 0
2004 - 0 ][ 1
2005 - 0 ][ 1
------------------
total - 13 ][ 23
And you were saying about the quality of a Honda over a Neon...
Dude I cant tell you how totally wrong your idea is about Japanese longevity. Change your oil right, do your maintenance and your domestic will last approx the same. I have friends with old dodges like you and old chevy's and fords too that have several hundred thousand miles and theyare still going with the same motor, no rebuild and have only changed out the normal parts that wear.
The only reason why resale is sometimes better is because as mentioned here in this thread, the foriegn guys dont usually have any deals on financing or rebates to help bring the price of them down. This means they cost more to initially purchase than a domestic does. My Dodge was a $27,300 sticker truck, but I didnt have to pay anywhere near that for mine, in fact my roll-uot was under $20,000(tax, title and license fees included). I looked at both the Titan and the Tndra before I made my choice and found that both manus were way too proud of their trucks to bother coming off them at all. PLUS both nissan and toyota finacial tried to rape me on the interest and dodge gave me 5.9% without a problem...
Well Horatio,not trying to waste too much of my time on this, but once again YOUR WRONG!!!
You obviously dont check your facts before opening your mouth about stuff you really dont know what your talking about, just because you have had a couple of cars that had problems doesnt mean they are all bad, lets go over some figures that you apparently didnt look up, but yet are readily available via the internet at the governments recall site:
Number of recalls per year
Neon - ][ - Civic
---------------------
1996 - 2 ][ 3
1997 - 1 ][ 3
1998 - 1 ][ 3
1999 - 0 ][ 1
2000 - 5 ][ 3
2001 - 4 ][ 6
2002 - 0 ][ 2
2003 - 0 ][ 0
2004 - 0 ][ 1
2005 - 0 ][ 1
------------------
total - 13 ][ 23
And you were saying about the quality of a Honda over a Neon...
Dude I cant tell you how totally wrong your idea is about Japanese longevity. Change your oil right, do your maintenance and your domestic will last approx the same. I have friends with old dodges like you and old chevy's and fords too that have several hundred thousand miles and theyare still going with the same motor, no rebuild and have only changed out the normal parts that wear.
The only reason why resale is sometimes better is because as mentioned here in this thread, the foriegn guys dont usually have any deals on financing or rebates to help bring the price of them down. This means they cost more to initially purchase than a domestic does. My Dodge was a $27,300 sticker truck, but I didnt have to pay anywhere near that for mine, in fact my roll-uot was under $20,000(tax, title and license fees included). I looked at both the Titan and the Tndra before I made my choice and found that both manus were way too proud of their trucks to bother coming off them at all. PLUS both nissan and toyota finacial tried to rape me on the interest and dodge gave me 5.9% without a problem...
Professional
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 107
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From:
RE: Ram VS. Titan
Some of these posts are funny; I love how the cold war was "bigoted" It (if I remember correctly was Caucasians hating Caucasians)
MY truck was built in the US
My van was built in Canada Thanks for the hockey – sorry we ruined it for you this year)
A car’s maker means a lot to me (Semper Fi)- AND I am not a bigot.
By the way I still believe that the Nissan is a cheap rip off of a Dodge Concept:
http://www.dodge.com/dodge_life/past...8&type=textNav
MY truck was built in the US
My van was built in Canada Thanks for the hockey – sorry we ruined it for you this year)
A car’s maker means a lot to me (Semper Fi)- AND I am not a bigot.
By the way I still believe that the Nissan is a cheap rip off of a Dodge Concept:
http://www.dodge.com/dodge_life/past...8&type=textNav