So if i understand you correctly, you are saying the code is generated at statup because of a slow response from the sensor. But then the sensor starts working each time and for all intensive purposes the truck is then functioning perfectly normal but the code (and CEL) remains because the truck has not yet been able to have a trip (Startup and drive) without an issue?

If the truck was truly not operating in closed loop, would'nt i be able to tell? Would'nt it idle rough and respond differently?

As annoying as the CEL is to see untill i fix this issue, the big thing that worries is me is doing any sort of damage to anything else. IF the truck is truly not operating in Closed Loop, am i fouling plugs, fouling the cat, further damaging O2 sensors, etc, etc? THAT is my big concern here. By the end of this week if the light is still on, i am going to order all new NTK sensors and do the swap. But ideally, i would like to not have to drop another $100 and the aggrivation of swapping them again.

Would YOU drive your truck for a week if it was not in Closed loop?


Once i figure out the root cause of all this, ill get on it.

 

Well it used to be that I spared NO expense on parts/maintenance of my vehicles - and when I had problems, after a couple of days of being me and trying to determine the cause, I returned them, swelled up and bought sensors straight from the dealer.
BUT, after having to move and take a WAY lesser paying job due to some family health issues AND being laid off in November when the place I was working went into foreclosure, I CAN RELATE.

Yes, if NEVER going into closed loop there should be noticeable issues - a little black in the tailpipe may be evident but the telltale would be a loss of fuel economy, probably in the 2-3 MPG area. Keep in mind that operation in open loop is not DRASTICALLY different from closed loop operation and would not be nearly as bad as a poor reading from a sensor which could potentially cause a much richer condition than open loop (or dangerously lean as well) but you should get codes in either of those conditions too.
Guys who run a cooler thermostat or a power wire are essentially running the same A/F mix that open loop is. So will there be an IMMEDIATE plug or cat issue? I highly doubt it. You should be fine running with JUST a PO1129 code as long as there are not any more serious codes popping on you.

Keep in mind this is my opinion here and I really don't have any hard facts. Only hooking up and reading your A/F ratio would tell you for sure. If it were me, I'd scrape up the $$$ if I could for the Mopar sensors and be done with it - but I don't see a problem driving while waiting for the other sensors to show up - and maybe if they work correctly you'll have an alternate part that works for the same $$$ as the Bosch to put in your DIY...

 

Thanks for the insight. I have no plans to let this issue drag on. Ill likley be ordering new O2 sensors monday (Tommorow). Ill try the dealer, if he is within $20 for all 4 of the online price, ill buy locally. Otherwise, ill simply order the NTK versions.

Is their more then one NTK version for these trucks?

Here is the Pre Cat:

http://www.discounto2sensor.com/stor...ytic+Converter

And Post Cat:

http://www.discounto2sensor.com/stor...st,universal:0)

Are the above the ones that are OEM?

If the CEL goes out and the code vanishes before i get the new models installed, ill simply hold on to them untill needed.

But i take it you agree with what i am thinking? That the truck is going Closed Loop at some point shortly after starting which is why everything seems normal?

 

Found them cheaper at Advance, and i can buy them tax free in New Hampshire with no shipping:

Pre Cat:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...RPEMISAMS_____

Post Cat:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...RPEMISAMS_____

 

You mention I said Dodge, but you did in fact ignore that I did say Bosch also. Since when is selling a defective product ok? Also I dont run to the forum everytime i go to autozone for a replacement part. I replaced my license plate frame yesterday, should I have checked here to make sure it was not going to cause my tires to melt off? I doubt it. That was the whole reason I posted to begin with - what else are we here for but to share info. I agree the search function is an incredible tool. That is NOT something I would search. Will this brand new component which is engineered for my truck from a reputable international company actually work???

Answer, involves a question. That would be me contacting them and asking what the problem is and why dont they work? Maybe I would be the first person to ever tell them this issue? Doubt it as I am sure they know. Maybe even ask if they have any ideas or fixes? I also am pretty sure that Chrysler and Bosch have a relationship, especially now that Fiat is part of the fray. Bosch does 70% of the sensors for fiat from the factory. Also not to mention how often parts are rebadged and sold as another brand.


Yes they should. Responsibilty is a big word, courtesy maybe. We did not know and that is why I asked.

Probably the biggest insult you could say. Are you referring to my ethnicity.

Besides, I always appreciate your feedback, as a matter of fact, I look forward to it. Wisdom doesnt have to be shared with personal attacks. I am sorry if I seemed to relay that in my message. It was unintentional.

 

I am glad we got down to the nuts and bolts. Thanks NV for the research. Now I can order them and get them in. Figures, today I had some good mpg while on the highway. 15.9 at 70 for 26 miles and I wasnt really trying. Better than Ive been seeing. Getting these replaced will make me feel all comfortable inside.

 

No, I mentioned Dodge specifically because it's not their responsibility to make sure OTHER manufacturer's parts work. Their sensors do and that's all they need be concerned with.



You misunderstood my point, my point was that Bosch has had to have known about this issue (and it's NOT just Chrysler products they have problems on - there are "don't use Bosch" posts on other brand forums as well). My point was that after years of this being an issue, the Bosch brass doesn't seem to give a rat's a$$.


This is where we disagree, I read your comment as blaming others for not stopping you from buying those sensors - and had I taken note of that thread or in your post, I would have advised against Bosch sensors. Of course if you had chosen to heed it, would have been 100% up to you. My point is that had you thought to search on the topic you would have seen that others who have had issue with that brand have been responsible AND courteous enough to post about it. Again, if you felt that the sensors were a minor thing and not needed any research on your part, I'm not blaming you, but it is 100% on you, nobody else. I've made purchases many times and found out after the fact that had I researched it some, I could have been spared aggravation, but that's 100% on me.



No, there is no reference to ethnicity intended and I apologize if you took it that way. It was based on the above and intended as a political joke - and was aimed at the liberal thinking that everything is ALWAYS someone else's fault - that blame for a mistake isn't owned up to the one who made the mistake. Simply a political based joke. What ethnic background someone has means little to nothing to me personally, I would like to think I judge people on their individual merits.

Again, no personal attack was intended. I just took a bit of umbrage when it appeared that you were placing blame on not being warned about using a particular product on forum members. Many of whom had in fact stated their findings and opinions many times on this forum previously...

 

Made two round trips from home to work last night after a fill up. Typically that will drop my fuel level to just under 3/4 of a tank. But my fuel level was just over 3/4 of a tank and my MPG was up to almost 15.8 mpg. So that proves my truck must being going into closed loop. And again, no driveability issues at all. in fact, it seems like it drives better.

Check engine light still on, same code still shows. I guess ill order new sensors today.

While i certanly don't want two different brands of sensors on each side of the engine in the same locations, but what about just putting in NGT Pre Cat sensors and leaving the Bosch in the Post Cat locations since the Post Cat units have not (so far) generated any code? Just trying to save some money here.

Seeing as Pret Cat and Post Cat sensors are two different models, do they HAVE to be the same brand?

 

NV - Hammer and other suggest to "suck"it up and buy the correct ones for the o2. Guess after all these issues id have to agree. I personally feel it probably wouldnt matter if the brand ae not the same. Honestly, you already prob have several different brand sensors under the hood as it sits. I would say as long as they were functional/new, if im wrong we will still be talking about it for a couple days.

Since we cant get the Bosch's to work, a sticky cant be done. Maybe adding it to the ram known issues or something. Maybe just a side note about the bosch's.

Hammer - I do appreciate the "rough" initial feedback. I am sure you have noticed that I have been here on the forum for only a short period. 1-2 years, but I previous to this year, i had no posts, only questions. Moving from the mindframe of "I need this fixed...help" kind of posts, to actually reading most of the active threads and responding to others. I am trying to change my ettique and my worth to others using my shared experience. So please - bear with me as I "grow up" and bocome a positive member of the dodgeforum.

Now that I have the experience - I will avoid Bosch at all costs. I hate when corporate america avoids the due diligence of an honest company. The sensors do not work, but Bosch has no problem selling them. That to me is wrong. Most people dont have the forums for assistance and this is a crapshoot for them. They are causing problems to there vehicles and dont know why.

I am not of a political affiliation (Partial Fiscal Republican) - I choose to be well informed. Unfortunately everyone in the "country Club" cant speak without spewing lies. The whole system is corrupt. Checks and balances has failed. The systems now relies on who you know, who you blow, and how filthy rich you can get.
Holding office was intended as a public service and should be done so for two terms, max. Then they returned to work as civilians without all the parting gifts. The proffesional title, Politician, was not created by the founding fathers, nor intended. Same for lobbyists, bailouts, too big to fail, etc. =Greed.

We need fresh minds and thoughts coming out of washington. The lazy youth of the upcoming hand it to me please generation, might be an issue. I am sure itll get way worse before it gets even a little better. Seems like we are learning how to make the law makers listen, but many years have gone by where we seemed to forget.

Back to what I can fix - my Ram.

 

Okay, I just got this info from one of my "sources". NTK is the sensor division of NGK and is the OEM for Dodge Rams. It will work fine, same thing they hand you at a dealership's parts counter...