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4.7L cold start noise / lifter noise / slapping


Old 11-28-2006, 01:02 PM
h2o_man1 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7
Default 4.7L cold start noise / lifter noise / slapping

I have a '03 Ram 1500 with a 4.7L, VIN N and it has been at the dealership for almost 4 months now. I purchased the truck used with 63,000 miles on it. The truck runs great but has a cold engine start up noise that was not there when I first got it. A few days later it started the lifter type noise. The noise is coming from the right side of the engine. Very prominent from the passenger fender well. If you walk around the truck it actually sounds like it is coming from under it, even with the hood open. If laying under the truck it sounds as if it is coming from just below the right head. Used a stethoscope and listened to it and everything is quiet except from the right head. Sounds like a loose rocker arm or a bad lifter. No where else in the engine do you hear anything with the scope. When laying under the truck listening and after the sound starts to soften it sounds like something is slapping around in the lower end instead of up by the right head, then the noise fades away. The sound use to only last for about 30-45 seconds and ocassionally up to 2 minutes. The sound is loud then softens and then goes away. Was worse in the mornings and slight noise if truck sat for 3-4 hours.

The truck had a fresh oil change with conventional oil when I first bought it. Thought it might have been cheap oil in it so I changed it and put in Mobil 1 synthetic 5w30 and the noise got worse. I had the lifters on the passenger side changed by an independent mechanic. The noise never went away and didn't change. Found out it was still under the Powertrain Warranty so I took it to the dealership that this independent mechanic had called for help. They replaced just the timing chain tensioners and the noise went away for a few days (charged me under the powertrain warranty for timing chain, guides and tensioners but did not replace the chains...this is another story in itself). When the noise came back I had the oil changed again with a different brand filter. It has now had 5 different brand filters on it all with anti-drainback valve including Mopars oil and filter. NO change.

After the dealership accepted blame for not putting the parts on they have been diligent up 'till now with trying to fix it. They then replaced the chains and guides plus changing the lifters in both heads (right head has had two sets of lifters/lash adjusters at this point). The noise changed to only in the morning but stayed the same lasting for about 30-45 seconds. It was loud for the first 20 seconds then softening and then finally going away.

They then replaced the injectors on the right side and cleaned the fuel rail but that didn't help either.

So the independent mechanic gave me a TSB from IdentiFix that showed a 2001 Dodge with a 4.7L VIN N making a lifter type noise that turned out to be a bad rod bearing. The excessive bearing clearance was allowing the piston to tap the bottom of the head. However the TSB did not state if it was only during cold engine start up. Having shown this to the dealership they decided to replace 4 pistons and rod bearings on the right side on the engine, re-used the rods and pins. At the same time they installed a new cam, new rocker arms and new head on the right side...re-using the old valves and springs. The noise never went away but the consistancy of it had changed the length of time shortened. Sometimes it would be quiet when I started it then 15 seconds later the noise would start and last 20-40 seconds.

So the dealership tried running 10w30 in it instead of 5w30. The 10w30 made the noise about four times as loud and make the noise every time I started it reguardless of how long it sat but the longer it sat the worse the noise was and the length of time would increase. I drove it for about 4 hours to go see my brother and got in it 4 hours later and it tapped for almost 3 minutes.

Dealership then changed the oil pump. No change in the symptoms from when they put the thicker oil in. Also the longer the distance that I drive the truck and then let it sit, the louder and longer it is. Now it even makes noise after only sitting for 30 minutes. But if I start it cold and don't let it warm up, just run it till the noise fades away then turn it off, the next time I start it it is virtually quiet.

Now the problem is worse and I can tell the Service Manager is getting "burnt-out" on it. I can't take it to another Service Department because now it has 70,600 miles on it (out of warranty). The dealership I have working on it is keeping an open ticket on it until the problem is fixed. I have alread paid the deductable and the problem is not fixed. Paid that when they first worked on it. I contacted the Daimler/Chrysler customer service department and filed a complaint about the engine noise and all they tell me is to continue working with the Service Department until it is resolved.

I did take it to another dealership and they charged me to tell me that I have a "sludged-up" engine and carbon on my valves and pistons....This is not true because I have seen the inside of the engine, the independent mechanic, the dealership I am working with and a mechanic friend who works for GM have all told be that the other Dodge Service Department mis-diagnosed the problem....they tried to charge me $250.00 to "flush the engine" and if that didn't fix it then they wanted to charge me $110.00 an hour to find the problem because it would not be covered under the Powertrain Warranty because the engine was "sludged-up" from poor maintanance. I told them they were wrong and at this point the Service Rep said "You owe us $48.00 and you can take your truck back to ******* Service Department and let them figure out what the problem is" Found out later all they did was removed my oil fill cap and looked at it but claimed they used a vidio device to look inside the engine including the combustion chamber....hard to do that if you don't remove a spark plug.....still had road dust on all eight of the coils and if this was done at least one would of had some sort of smudge marks on it. I left and took it to my mechanic friend and we took the valve cover off on the right side and saw that it still had the old chain and guide on it. When we looked down inside further, we saw a nice shiny new secondary tensioner pushing against and old tensioner arm. Put the valve cover back on and took it back up the the dealership and chewed butt and almost got escorted off by the police. The Service Manager didn't beleive me that his Tech didn't put the parts on. I had taken pictures and he didn't even want see them. I told him I wasn't leaving till they made it right and I stood my ground and many parts later I am here.
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Old 12-04-2006, 06:55 AM
JRH_PowerWagon_06 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 406
Default RE: 4.7L cold start noise / lifter noise / slapping

Try Mobil 1 15W50.
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Old 12-04-2006, 06:42 PM
stump_breaker is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 560
Default RE: 4.7L cold start noise / lifter noise / slapping

Could be the lash adjuster. I'm really leaning toward a hydraulic lifter(s) not pumping up. I had this exact same problem on a Subaru excet the loud clicking would no go away completely. The problem was a simple fix. The oil pump gasket had flattened and was allowing air into the pump. This would not allow the correct pressure on the lifters and would not let them pump up. A $6 oil pump gasket fixed the problem but it took forever to find the problem.
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Old 12-04-2006, 09:01 PM
jjrush52 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16
Default RE: 4.7L cold start noise / lifter noise / slapping

I've got the same exact problem. In fact I've been told by several people that it is a lifter. Mine has pretty much the same symptoms. It goes away after about 30 seconds but every time I start it.

Is the oil pump and/or gasket hard to get to. This would be great if I could fix this. I've been told not to worry about it but it bothers me.

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Old 12-05-2006, 07:03 AM
JRH_PowerWagon_06 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 406
Default RE: 4.7L cold start noise / lifter noise / slapping

This sort of Hyd. lifter noise is common. Piston slap is less common. Running very light weight oils like the factory recommends magnifies this perceived "problem."
I'm running Mobil 1 0W-40 in my PW. Sure it's noisy after cold start up for a few minutes, then quiets down.
Hot, the 0W-40 is almost a 50wt. after a few thousand miles the molecules are said the shear down to about a 30wt., but I change at 3-4k miles anyway.
I run 15W-50 in my Cobra to Keep it quiet. It's a hand-built hi-po motor. I'm more interested in protecting the engine, than the factories recommendations in order to achieve their Corporate Average Fuel Economy ratings.

FYI- Mobil 1 0W-40 = Dodge factory oil for Viper.
Mobil 1 15W-50 = Ford factory oil for 2000 Cobra R (Production racer, only 200 made)
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Old 12-05-2006, 12:32 PM
damquick1 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 281
Default RE: 4.7L cold start noise / lifter noise / slapping

Man I bet that Cobra R will peel yer eyelids back a bit...my brother had a true Cobra R back in 1992 (when they told everyone there would never be another "true" Cobra) with the 5.0 and that SOB was fast,... even though it was heavy it still would jerk a knot in ya!
Love to see a pic of it.
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Old 02-09-2010, 02:06 PM
ARG is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 14

I have the same problem on my new 2010 RAM 1500 with a 4.7 engine. Now has about 1500 miles and been like this from day one. Sounds like a diesel when starting cold but the clatter goes away after a minute or two. If this is normal, I don't want to have a dealer mess with it and screw other things up.
Any ideas?
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Old 02-10-2010, 01:48 AM
Kamel87 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 196

its the guide bars for the timing chain. i have the exact same problem. the only reason they dont want to change them is because its about 5 hrs of work 500 dollars in parts and about 200 dollars in fluids. once the bars and tensioners are replaced the noise will go away
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:23 AM
ahook168 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 22

My truck does this same thing. I was told that since most of the parts in the engine are aluminum that it takes a while for the heat to build up and expand. Made sense to me. I just keep using good oil and let it warm up before I drive.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:26 AM
big guy
big guy is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Wheatley Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 253

Copied from different thread..
After making two trips to the dealer for cold engine knock. First trip replaced right bank valve lash adjustors. Second trip dealer replaced left bank valve lash adjustors and rockers. Both times dealer told me they corrected the problem. But both times the next morning the noise was still present. (P.S. Donít let the dealer start the truck for you and drive to front reception area.)
So I had my trusted gear shop guy give the truck a listen. He said #6 and # 8 piston are making the cold engine knock. So with my PTO warranty expiring on Oct 29,2009. I went back to a different dealer (selling dealer). Armed with the independent shops report. The second dealer comes up with the timing chain tensioner as the culprit. They replace the tensioners and chain. Install a new water pump and serpentine belt tensioner and serpentine belt. All covered under PTO warranty. Thank you very much Dodge! Get the truck home. Next morning go to do a cold start. Guess what? Same cold start knock is present. Bring truck back to dealer. Leave it there for 10 days while on Vacation. Now they say #8 cylinder/piston is making the noise.
After consultation with Dodge they say it is fairly common on the 4.7 and if it is not excessive that they will not proceed with any more repairs. Service manager states it will not cause an engine failure. Which I have been told by a number of other trusted sources. So for now I guess I am SOL. Itís really hard to believe that a company in such desperate financial position can throw so much warranty dollars at my problem and use hit and miss diagnosis. It is not uncommon to have multiple trips to get intermittent electrical problems corrected. But Mechanical noises should not be that difficult for the professional. So after 4 trips to the dealer each time sitting for about 1 week. They finally find the problem and refuse repairs, and they wonder why they are losing market share! Anyways I will live with it as is, but the cold start knock will make it more difficult to sell. If I decide to do so. I really want to get a used 06 or 07 Hemi. But the market for used trucks in my area is too much for me to make the trade.
*****Update. To date I still have the same noise. Engine still runs strong. *****
2003 Ram 1500 SLT LB 4X4, 4.7 Auburn LSD, 4.10 Gears
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