Motor Oil throwing codes
Professional
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 243
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From: Deadmonton, AB
I'm not saying your wrong on your tech specs. Just that it doesn't matter. Chrysler doesn't require thinner, 'better' oil just because it is cold out. Just use what the manual says and you won't have MDS worries or warranty issues. Or use whatever you want. I don't care. I'm just trying to say there's no value in your idea because the factory is OK with 5W-20.
Rob
Rob
None of this above will be worth a hill of beans when your dealership tells you to go take a hike should you ever require warranty service on your engine once they realize you second-guessed them and used a different oil from what they clearly state.
I've owned many cars in my time, and have modified some of my sports cars. Some changes were clearly an improvement, but that argument fell on deaf ears once the Dealership Service Dept. realized you 'improved' their design and service recommendation. Been there, done it. Unfortunately it seems you'll have to go through it also before you learn your lesson.
I've owned many cars in my time, and have modified some of my sports cars. Some changes were clearly an improvement, but that argument fell on deaf ears once the Dealership Service Dept. realized you 'improved' their design and service recommendation. Been there, done it. Unfortunately it seems you'll have to go through it also before you learn your lesson.
Like I said in a previous post, this is my truck. I make my payments, if you were making my truck payment you could state the oil I could or couldnt use.
In my PERSONAL opinion (again stated previously) 0w20 is the best option for MY TRUCK. Because of the HARSH northern climate I live in, I could care less what Chrysler Canada says or what people in warm southern states have to say.
The only person that I would listen to in this oil debate would be a member in Alaska, Yukon or Northwest Territories.
Have you ever been in conditions colder then 32*F? Let alone -30*F or colder? I have, I work in it outside daily.
I see what extremely cold climates do, and how hard they are on motors be it gas or diesel.
In Canada, we utilize block heaters to keep coolant warm, and ease starting in extremely cold conditions. Using a thinner oil (an oil which is only thinner at start up temperatures) puts FAR less strain on the rotating assembly.
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Professional
Joined: Dec 2007
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From:
It hasn't, at operating temperatures 5w20 has the same viscosity as 0w20.
Once the engine is warmed to normal operational temperatures, everything is fine.
For example, today I started my truck and ran it for 10 minutes before I went to work today (it was -34*C/-29*F). Since we get such cold winters, I have completely blocked my radiator off, with a large piece of cardboard in my grill.
Even with 10 minutes of warm up my truck is close to operating temperature after about 1 mile of driving I merge onto the highway, I am @ operating temperature. I merge onto the highway set my cruise control, and watch/feel MDS engage.
My gas mileage has increased for several reasons:
1. Its winter, colder air temperatures = denser air = run richer
2. Warming up my truck 5-10 minutes before I leave for work
3. Snow = Increased rolling resistance
4. 305/50/20 tires.
However after I made the switch, I noticed no difference in gas mileage, and I drove roughly 60 miles/100km to and from work each day. Same route. Week after week my gas mileage is +/- 0.5mpg. Depending on temperatures.
Once the engine is warmed to normal operational temperatures, everything is fine.
For example, today I started my truck and ran it for 10 minutes before I went to work today (it was -34*C/-29*F). Since we get such cold winters, I have completely blocked my radiator off, with a large piece of cardboard in my grill.
Even with 10 minutes of warm up my truck is close to operating temperature after about 1 mile of driving I merge onto the highway, I am @ operating temperature. I merge onto the highway set my cruise control, and watch/feel MDS engage.
My gas mileage has increased for several reasons:
1. Its winter, colder air temperatures = denser air = run richer
2. Warming up my truck 5-10 minutes before I leave for work
3. Snow = Increased rolling resistance
4. 305/50/20 tires.
However after I made the switch, I noticed no difference in gas mileage, and I drove roughly 60 miles/100km to and from work each day. Same route. Week after week my gas mileage is +/- 0.5mpg. Depending on temperatures.
Professional
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 243
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From: Deadmonton, AB
Ok I went back to a few text books on this.
0w20 has a lower pour point then 5w20.
Pour Point is the temperature at which oil will stop flowing and gel.
The actual testing is a 2 parter: the Cold Cranking Simulator (CCS) and the Mini-Rotary Viscometer (MRV). The better the startability of the engine, the lower the number will be. Each number requires the oil to fall withing a certain point range.
Example:
A "0" weight oil must have a maximum CCS centipoise value of 3250@-30 celsius and a maximum MRV of 60,000@-40 celsius.
A "5" weight oil must have a max CCS centipoise value of 3500@-25 celsius and a max MRV centipoise value of 60,000@-30 celsius.
Note that the "0" weight oil is tested at a lower temperature AND must have a lower CCS value than the "5". This is why the "0" weight will allow your car to start easier when really cold and allow the pump to circulate the oil quicker and easier than a "5", which in turn is better than a "10
If you would like to learn more about engine oil
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/
0w20 has a lower pour point then 5w20.
Pour Point is the temperature at which oil will stop flowing and gel.
The actual testing is a 2 parter: the Cold Cranking Simulator (CCS) and the Mini-Rotary Viscometer (MRV). The better the startability of the engine, the lower the number will be. Each number requires the oil to fall withing a certain point range.
Example:
A "0" weight oil must have a maximum CCS centipoise value of 3250@-30 celsius and a maximum MRV of 60,000@-40 celsius.
A "5" weight oil must have a max CCS centipoise value of 3500@-25 celsius and a max MRV centipoise value of 60,000@-30 celsius.
Note that the "0" weight oil is tested at a lower temperature AND must have a lower CCS value than the "5". This is why the "0" weight will allow your car to start easier when really cold and allow the pump to circulate the oil quicker and easier than a "5", which in turn is better than a "10
If you would like to learn more about engine oil
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/
Professional
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
From: Deadmonton, AB
If you drive 60-70mph in -30F your vehicle will NEVER reach operating temperature, because of the cooling effect of the air.
Here in Canada, Mopar has winter front covers for trucks. That cover the entire grill so air cannot enter! Why pay $200-300 for such a piece of mopar junk when a piece of cardboard does the same thing.
Now Windchill only effects organic matter, but maybe it will help you wrap your head around the point Im trying to make.
Outdoor Temperature: -30*F + 60mph wind = -65*F is what human flesh would feel.
Now if you kinda understand that ^
Now if you apply how a radiator works, by transfering heat, then you will understand how and why us Canadians cover our radiators in the winter.
Last edited by Talon_66; Feb 8, 2011 at 11:00 PM.
Record Breaker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,387
Likes: 1
From: MN
Have you ever been in conditions colder then 32*F? Let alone -30*F or colder? I have, I work in it outside daily.
I see what extremely cold climates do, and how hard they are on motors be it gas or diesel.
In Canada, we utilize block heaters to keep coolant warm, and ease starting in extremely cold conditions. Using a thinner oil (an oil which is only thinner at start up temperatures) puts FAR less strain on the rotating assembly.
I see what extremely cold climates do, and how hard they are on motors be it gas or diesel.
In Canada, we utilize block heaters to keep coolant warm, and ease starting in extremely cold conditions. Using a thinner oil (an oil which is only thinner at start up temperatures) puts FAR less strain on the rotating assembly.
Do what you want with your truck, that's your prerogative. I'm just saying you don't need to.
Rob
Record Breaker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,264
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From: Ila Georgia
If something engine wise broke the chances of anyone doing a oil analysis is slim. There is no difference between 0w20 and 5w20 at operating temp.I dealt with hundreds of warranty claims.A fair amount of engine repair over 25 years.Factory warranty and lots of higher mileage vehicles.Lots with Aftermarket service contracts. I never was asked by anyone what weight or brand was in a unit.Just what did the fliud look like,level and some history or proof of maintance.I dealt with pretty hard *** adjusters from time to time.
Last edited by hounddogg; Feb 8, 2011 at 11:52 PM.
Professional
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
From: Deadmonton, AB
If something engine wise broke the chances of anyone doing a oil analysis is slim. There is no difference between 0w20 and 5w20 at operating temp.I dealt with hundreds of warranty claims.A fair amount of engine repair over 25 years.Factory warranty and lots of higher mileage vehicles.Lots with Aftermarket service contracts. I never was asked by anyone what weight or brand was in a unit.Just what did the fliud look like,level and some history or proof of maintance.I dealt with pretty hard *** adjusters from time to time.
Record Breaker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,264
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From: Ila Georgia
Its not to say they couldn't or wouldn't get that deep into a failure but in all the years I worked in dealers I never remember it being any big issue or asked.The weight of the fliud.Thats engines,trannys or differentials. Just over all condition a idea of what failed and why.Proof of maintenance as per the owners manual and or a real good effort of taking care of the vehicle etc.
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,686
Likes: 21
From: South Georgia/East Florida
Actually Talon, you logic is sound and I'm fairly confident that the 0w-20 is close enough to spec that a code wouldn't be generated, although I am not sure.
You are correct also that it IS your truck, and it's your right to run whatever you please in it. I highly doubt any issue would come about because of the choice to run a 0w-20 as opposed to a 5w-20 oil. I'd be a more leery of running a 5w-30 in an MDS engine than a 0w-20.
BUT just be aware that if you do have an engine failure in the future, you are limiting your ability to fight THE MAN, if they refuse warranty compensation. If they can show you have run/are running an oil that is technically out of spec, they probably can beat Magnuson/Moss for any engine related failure. Not saying they would, but they could.
I've made a lot of modifications that I knew would void parts of my warranty, but as you say, it's my truck and my conscious choice to do whatever to it that I want...
You are correct also that it IS your truck, and it's your right to run whatever you please in it. I highly doubt any issue would come about because of the choice to run a 0w-20 as opposed to a 5w-20 oil. I'd be a more leery of running a 5w-30 in an MDS engine than a 0w-20.
BUT just be aware that if you do have an engine failure in the future, you are limiting your ability to fight THE MAN, if they refuse warranty compensation. If they can show you have run/are running an oil that is technically out of spec, they probably can beat Magnuson/Moss for any engine related failure. Not saying they would, but they could.
I've made a lot of modifications that I knew would void parts of my warranty, but as you say, it's my truck and my conscious choice to do whatever to it that I want...