Chrysler Announces New Electric/Hybid Vehicle Division
RE: Chrysler Announces New Electric/Hybid Vehicle Division
ORIGINAL: grungerockjeeper
And altair, the government's standards are just the problem. We live in a free-market economy. The government needs to pack its **** and get out of the automotive industry. Aside from a few common-sense based safety regulations they have no business dicatating anything to the automakers. We as consumers have the buying power so what WE say goes.
Government red tape has conspired to stamp out most anything worth having in the automotive world. The corvair: dead. The muscle car near death for nearly 30 years. The V-8 powered Jeep CJ: Dead. Whenever our choices are reduced, its usually the options that enthusiasts really want. The government, insurance companies, and lawyers are going to get behind ugly hybrids, lame midsize sedans and minivans, and high mileage weenie cars. Theyre not going to advocate anything to get excited about, and the late 70's thru most of the 80s is proof.
And altair, the government's standards are just the problem. We live in a free-market economy. The government needs to pack its **** and get out of the automotive industry. Aside from a few common-sense based safety regulations they have no business dicatating anything to the automakers. We as consumers have the buying power so what WE say goes.
Government red tape has conspired to stamp out most anything worth having in the automotive world. The corvair: dead. The muscle car near death for nearly 30 years. The V-8 powered Jeep CJ: Dead. Whenever our choices are reduced, its usually the options that enthusiasts really want. The government, insurance companies, and lawyers are going to get behind ugly hybrids, lame midsize sedans and minivans, and high mileage weenie cars. Theyre not going to advocate anything to get excited about, and the late 70's thru most of the 80s is proof.
)
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RE: Chrysler Announces New Electric/Hybid Vehicle Division
Grunge,
I couldn't agree more with you on the issues of an over-reaching government.
But I think I'm seeing on the market just what you ask for. Take the 5.7 Liter Hemi for instance--That engine is a great example of the cutting edge of standard pushrod IC engine technology when considering performance versus price and cost of ownership.
As far as I know there is no engine made ever before near the 350 cu. in. range that has been sold in a stock vehicle that makes similar horsepower and torque versus gas mileage while still passing emissions standards.
The upcoming 2009 4.7 Liter engine at approx. 310-315 horsepower, and improving mileage, well that's simply amazing to me.
The Ford 5.4 Liter engine is getting good mileage, I've heard direct from owners of 20-22 mpg on highway.
The GM 5.3 is right up there too, barely beating both Ford's and Dodge's gas mileage in highway mileage, some reporting 24-26 mpg in proper conditions.
Besides the reasonable mileage, all these engines make boat loads of low end torque that's actually usable at driving RPM's.
Where we could see a real improvement in vehicles I think is in composite structures. If mass production of composite frames were made cost effective, eliminating all that steel from a vehicle would likely drop the weight of a vehicle in half. Power to weight ratios would go through the roof, and the torque required to slam you into your seat like in an old 426 Hemi 'Cuda would likely be somewhere around a measly 250 Ft. Lbs.
In the end, what I'd like to own is something akin to the current Dodge Power Wagon but in half ton form, with the ability to not turn on the gasoline engine for 100 miles. Plug this thing in every night and drive to work all week or to hunting grounds, or to the gas station across town with cheaper gas without burning a single hydrocarbon.
--Matt
I couldn't agree more with you on the issues of an over-reaching government.
But I think I'm seeing on the market just what you ask for. Take the 5.7 Liter Hemi for instance--That engine is a great example of the cutting edge of standard pushrod IC engine technology when considering performance versus price and cost of ownership.
As far as I know there is no engine made ever before near the 350 cu. in. range that has been sold in a stock vehicle that makes similar horsepower and torque versus gas mileage while still passing emissions standards.
The upcoming 2009 4.7 Liter engine at approx. 310-315 horsepower, and improving mileage, well that's simply amazing to me.
The Ford 5.4 Liter engine is getting good mileage, I've heard direct from owners of 20-22 mpg on highway.
The GM 5.3 is right up there too, barely beating both Ford's and Dodge's gas mileage in highway mileage, some reporting 24-26 mpg in proper conditions.
Besides the reasonable mileage, all these engines make boat loads of low end torque that's actually usable at driving RPM's.
Where we could see a real improvement in vehicles I think is in composite structures. If mass production of composite frames were made cost effective, eliminating all that steel from a vehicle would likely drop the weight of a vehicle in half. Power to weight ratios would go through the roof, and the torque required to slam you into your seat like in an old 426 Hemi 'Cuda would likely be somewhere around a measly 250 Ft. Lbs.
In the end, what I'd like to own is something akin to the current Dodge Power Wagon but in half ton form, with the ability to not turn on the gasoline engine for 100 miles. Plug this thing in every night and drive to work all week or to hunting grounds, or to the gas station across town with cheaper gas without burning a single hydrocarbon.
--Matt
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Grand Champion
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Charleston, SC
RE: Chrysler Announces New Electric/Hybid Vehicle Division
Researchers at upstate New York’s Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have developed a battery that very closely resembles paper. The new batteries are made of 90% cellulose — the same plant cells that goes into making news print, photocopier paper and books.
"It's essentially a regular piece of paper, but it's made in a very intelligent way," said Professor Robert Linhardt, one of the co-authors of a paper outlining the discovery. According to CNN, the paper-thin batteries can be cut, rolled or molded and still function normally. "If you cut the battery in half it would be like cutting a piece of paper in half. It functions no matter how many times you cut it because it is molecularly integrated," said Linhardt. And, unlike conventional batteries, the cellulose-derived batteries are non-toxic and won't freeze because they contain no water. The materials to make these batteries are currently inexpensive but researches have yet to find a way to cheaply mass produce them. This technology could have a huge impact of the automobile industry — particularly in hybrids. One of the limiting factors of the hybrid car is that its batteries take up a lot of room and limit cargo and passenger space. With this new technology, batteries could now be molded into the door panels, under the headliner or anywhere else in the car, freeing space and making hybrids more functional. Researchers are optimistic that the technology could be available for automotive use as soon at 2020
"It's essentially a regular piece of paper, but it's made in a very intelligent way," said Professor Robert Linhardt, one of the co-authors of a paper outlining the discovery. According to CNN, the paper-thin batteries can be cut, rolled or molded and still function normally. "If you cut the battery in half it would be like cutting a piece of paper in half. It functions no matter how many times you cut it because it is molecularly integrated," said Linhardt. And, unlike conventional batteries, the cellulose-derived batteries are non-toxic and won't freeze because they contain no water. The materials to make these batteries are currently inexpensive but researches have yet to find a way to cheaply mass produce them. This technology could have a huge impact of the automobile industry — particularly in hybrids. One of the limiting factors of the hybrid car is that its batteries take up a lot of room and limit cargo and passenger space. With this new technology, batteries could now be molded into the door panels, under the headliner or anywhere else in the car, freeing space and making hybrids more functional. Researchers are optimistic that the technology could be available for automotive use as soon at 2020
R.I.P. Dusty (Retired Moderator
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From: Alamosa, Colorado (200 yards from the Rio Grande)
RE: Chrysler Announces New Electric/Hybid Vehicle Division
If you're plugging a car into an electric outlet and your city doesn't get it's electricity from nuclear power or hydroelectric power, you may not be burning any hydrocarbons in your vehicle, but the plant that generated the electricity certainly is......
Dusty
Dusty
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RE: Chrysler Announces New Electric/Hybid Vehicle Division
That's right. I understand that entirely, but the whole idea--the whole system--requires a paradign shift--including electricity generation.
That's how we'll get into vehicles that make more power when needed, save more energy when needed, go faster when needed, can haul or tow what is needed--all in the same vehicle.
Right now as customers we are only being offered one or two of those things at once. You can get fuel economy, or you can go fast, or you can haul and go fast etc.
--Matt
That's how we'll get into vehicles that make more power when needed, save more energy when needed, go faster when needed, can haul or tow what is needed--all in the same vehicle.
Right now as customers we are only being offered one or two of those things at once. You can get fuel economy, or you can go fast, or you can haul and go fast etc.
--Matt
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Grand Champion
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Charleston, SC
RE: Chrysler Announces New Electric/Hybid Vehicle Division
ORIGINAL: dustyloins
If you're plugging a car into an electric outlet and your city doesn't get it's electricity from nuclear power or hydroelectric power, you may not be burning any hydrocarbons in your vehicle, but the plant that generated the electricity certainly is......
Dusty
If you're plugging a car into an electric outlet and your city doesn't get it's electricity from nuclear power or hydroelectric power, you may not be burning any hydrocarbons in your vehicle, but the plant that generated the electricity certainly is......
Dusty
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RE: Chrysler Announces New Electric/Hybid Vehicle Division
ORIGINAL: 03neonRT
Bingo
ORIGINAL: dustyloins
If you're plugging a car into an electric outlet and your city doesn't get it's electricity from nuclear power or hydroelectric power, you may not be burning any hydrocarbons in your vehicle, but the plant that generated the electricity certainly is......
Dusty
If you're plugging a car into an electric outlet and your city doesn't get it's electricity from nuclear power or hydroelectric power, you may not be burning any hydrocarbons in your vehicle, but the plant that generated the electricity certainly is......
Dusty
From the enviroment stand point, electric seems to be the best answer.
RE: Chrysler Announces New Electric/Hybid Vehicle Division
ORIGINAL: 03neonRT
Researchers at upstate New York’s Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have developed a battery that very closely resembles paper. The new batteries are made of 90% cellulose — the same plant cells that goes into making news print, photocopier paper and books.
"It's essentially a regular piece of paper, but it's made in a very intelligent way," said Professor Robert Linhardt, one of the co-authors of a paper outlining the discovery. According to CNN, the paper-thin batteries can be cut, rolled or molded and still function normally. "If you cut the battery in half it would be like cutting a piece of paper in half. It functions no matter how many times you cut it because it is molecularly integrated," said Linhardt. And, unlike conventional batteries, the cellulose-derived batteries are non-toxic and won't freeze because they contain no water. The materials to make these batteries are currently inexpensive but researches have yet to find a way to cheaply mass produce them. This technology could have a huge impact of the automobile industry — particularly in hybrids. One of the limiting factors of the hybrid car is that its batteries take up a lot of room and limit cargo and passenger space. With this new technology, batteries could now be molded into the door panels, under the headliner or anywhere else in the car, freeing space and making hybrids more functional. Researchers are optimistic that the technology could be available for automotive use as soon at 2020
"It's essentially a regular piece of paper, but it's made in a very intelligent way," said Professor Robert Linhardt, one of the co-authors of a paper outlining the discovery. According to CNN, the paper-thin batteries can be cut, rolled or molded and still function normally. "If you cut the battery in half it would be like cutting a piece of paper in half. It functions no matter how many times you cut it because it is molecularly integrated," said Linhardt. And, unlike conventional batteries, the cellulose-derived batteries are non-toxic and won't freeze because they contain no water. The materials to make these batteries are currently inexpensive but researches have yet to find a way to cheaply mass produce them. This technology could have a huge impact of the automobile industry — particularly in hybrids. One of the limiting factors of the hybrid car is that its batteries take up a lot of room and limit cargo and passenger space. With this new technology, batteries could now be molded into the door panels, under the headliner or anywhere else in the car, freeing space and making hybrids more functional. Researchers are optimistic that the technology could be available for automotive use as soon at 2020
Funny part is I didn't know anything about this, lol
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RE: Chrysler Announces New Electric/Hybid Vehicle Division
[/quote]
OK but how the electricity is generated is a seperate argument / issue. My vote is more nuclear power. However you look at it though, in the long run we have to move away from fossil fuel. In the short run, hybreds and the perfection of the IC engine. Before we are 100% electric I could see gasoline from coal be before we give up on fossil fuels all together.
From the enviroment stand point, electric seems to be the best answer.
[/quote]
[sm=smiley20.gif]BINGO! Exactly what I meant when I said, there needs to be a paradign shift in BOTH the thinking about vehicles and their power sources as well as electricity generation.
Here in the State Where Nothing Is Allowed (Minnesota) new nuclear power production facilities can not be built. This is backwards thinking in my opinion. Of course there's a good number who are scared the second you mention nuclear anything, and the first word out of their mouths is "CHERNOBYL!"[sm=smiley34.gif] but that us the supreme example of why you don't cheap out on a reactor cooling mechanism and try to make a Volkswagon air cooled nuclear reactor.
Power generation is one area where we could take something and learn from (don't faint here...) France who has a significant amount of their power generated from nuclear sources.
The basic requirement of personal transportation is you need a means to transfer torque to the ground. It doesn't get much simpler or lower in parts count or more immediate in reaction than with an electric motor. Maximum torque in a split second![sm=lildevil.gif]
Offsetting the burning or refining of fossil fuels to a central repository that can capture and clean the unburned hydrocarbons and pollution created from generation on a massive scale versus trying to stick government mandated band aids on 200 million tailpipes is a better answer.
--Matt