P1391 & p0403
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P1391 & p0403
I have had a problem with my 1997 DODGE GRAND CARAVAN LE LWB WAGON. The engine is a 3.8L and has approximately 146,000 miles on it. When I took over the maintenance on this vehicle it seems like the previous person neglected it. Here is some information I typed out to keep everything straight. My information may be incorrect feel free to correct me. I am not an experienced mechanic, but have done work on vehicles in the past. Some things I did were just to check the condition of them even if they aren't related to the problem.
Background
The van is bucking or loosing power randomly when you reach 2,000 and over RPM's. This happens in park, neutral, or drive (even in 3 and L) It is the worst going up hills.
Previous maintenance seems non existent since I have found many problems and it seems only serious problems were addressed. The problem I am experiencing has been happening for a long time off and on almost since the person that drives the van purchased the vehicle which doesn't make sense to me. It happens too often to go on long trips or up hills since I can't put a huge load on the engine.
Research
Got codes P1391 crank or cam position sensor and P0403 EGR Solenoid Failure from the the scan tool at the auto part store. Originally the sales associate said it was an EGR Solenoid Failure and Coil Failure, but that isn't what the first code says online. I am a bit confused on that. I did find a bad spark plug wire but haven't replaced it. I cleaned it up and it fired well when tested. I will do a tune up when I address the other issues.
I have looked on many forums, websites, auto parts websites, etc... and this is what I found for possible solutions to the problem
EGR Solenoid, EGR Valve, or whole assembly replacement
Crank or Cam sensor replacement
Timing Chain Slack throwing off the timing
Catalytic converter failure
Vacuum leak
Tune up required (Plugs, Wires, and Coil) and possible coil failure
Troubleshooting
I am not sure if some of these apply from my research.
The catalytic converter doesn't seem to be damaged the exhaust is strong even when idling and from what I have read it would not be if it was damaged. Also they said to tapthe CAT gently and see if you hear anything other the noise from tapping it. It sounded fine.
People on mopar forums stated that with this make and model the timing chain will last the life of the vehicle if the oil was changed properly and not ran low. The van has 146K miles on it so I'm not sure what the end of life would be.
I would think the tune up would be a good thing since it looks like it was never done even if it doesn't fix the problem. The plug wires look OEM to me, but I could be wrong. The plugs look old and worn out. The gaps keep changing on me for some reason.
There is a strong vacuum at the EGR Solenoid exit and Purge Solenoid exit. It will pull my finger in and you can hear it over the engine noise when not trying to plug it. I only ran it for a few seconds to check.
People online said to try to blow air through the EGR solenoid and purge solenoid so I tried that and both didn't let me so they seemed ok. I haven't done resistance or continuity tests yet. I don't have a scan tool to test the EGR solenoid myself and don't want to move the van unless I have to at this point.
I tried plugging the vacuum line past the EGR valve since from my research it seems like it isn't needed except for smog prevention. I could be wrong. I also tried plugging it after the purge solenoid. After everything I tried it didn't make any difference.
I pulled the oxygen sensor that is past the CAT and other than being dirty it was ok in appearance.
Background
The van is bucking or loosing power randomly when you reach 2,000 and over RPM's. This happens in park, neutral, or drive (even in 3 and L) It is the worst going up hills.
Previous maintenance seems non existent since I have found many problems and it seems only serious problems were addressed. The problem I am experiencing has been happening for a long time off and on almost since the person that drives the van purchased the vehicle which doesn't make sense to me. It happens too often to go on long trips or up hills since I can't put a huge load on the engine.
Research
Got codes P1391 crank or cam position sensor and P0403 EGR Solenoid Failure from the the scan tool at the auto part store. Originally the sales associate said it was an EGR Solenoid Failure and Coil Failure, but that isn't what the first code says online. I am a bit confused on that. I did find a bad spark plug wire but haven't replaced it. I cleaned it up and it fired well when tested. I will do a tune up when I address the other issues.
I have looked on many forums, websites, auto parts websites, etc... and this is what I found for possible solutions to the problem
EGR Solenoid, EGR Valve, or whole assembly replacement
Crank or Cam sensor replacement
Timing Chain Slack throwing off the timing
Catalytic converter failure
Vacuum leak
Tune up required (Plugs, Wires, and Coil) and possible coil failure
Troubleshooting
I am not sure if some of these apply from my research.
The catalytic converter doesn't seem to be damaged the exhaust is strong even when idling and from what I have read it would not be if it was damaged. Also they said to tapthe CAT gently and see if you hear anything other the noise from tapping it. It sounded fine.
People on mopar forums stated that with this make and model the timing chain will last the life of the vehicle if the oil was changed properly and not ran low. The van has 146K miles on it so I'm not sure what the end of life would be.
I would think the tune up would be a good thing since it looks like it was never done even if it doesn't fix the problem. The plug wires look OEM to me, but I could be wrong. The plugs look old and worn out. The gaps keep changing on me for some reason.
There is a strong vacuum at the EGR Solenoid exit and Purge Solenoid exit. It will pull my finger in and you can hear it over the engine noise when not trying to plug it. I only ran it for a few seconds to check.
People online said to try to blow air through the EGR solenoid and purge solenoid so I tried that and both didn't let me so they seemed ok. I haven't done resistance or continuity tests yet. I don't have a scan tool to test the EGR solenoid myself and don't want to move the van unless I have to at this point.
I tried plugging the vacuum line past the EGR valve since from my research it seems like it isn't needed except for smog prevention. I could be wrong. I also tried plugging it after the purge solenoid. After everything I tried it didn't make any difference.
I pulled the oxygen sensor that is past the CAT and other than being dirty it was ok in appearance.
Last edited by defury; May 21, 2011 at 12:44 PM.
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The exit point of the EGR (where the arrow points to the EVAC) has a strong vacuum when removed from the EGR Valve. If you mean that or something else. Let me know and I will check.
I appreciate the help! Thanks!
Champion
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,023
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The PCM supplies power to the egr solinoid and then grounds it to actuate the solinoid. It sets the code when it grounds the solinoid and sees no current flow. So you could have an open in the solinoid, bad wire, bad PCM.
The cam sensor code is when the PCM gets an irratic cam sensor signal. Could be a sensor issue or again, a wiring issue.
The cam sensor code is when the PCM gets an irratic cam sensor signal. Could be a sensor issue or again, a wiring issue.