First offff I will be buying the challenger when it comes out,NOT because it will be a collectors car.(I am sure it will not be}
I have a Real Bee,,,,,,Original 1969 1/2 440 sixpack and i am sure it will kick Stock Hemi's from back then.....I think I should know since I have a few Hemi's too.
When Dodge made the Superbee,it was surposed to be a cheap car just like the road runner where it was affordable.
The Bees were never on Chargers,,,,The Bees and Roadrunners were Cheap cars not like today.....JT

 

Actually, the Superbee was on Chargers in '71, if I caught your point.

I too have hemis and sixpack cars. Quite a difference, pure torque vs. "breathing" capability, truly remarkably different motors considering the same block.

 

not trying to flame or anything so dont take it that way, but i thought a stock 426 hemi would SPANK a stock 440-6. from what ive read the 426 hemi was rated at 425 hp, but alot of people think it was under-rated by as much as 75 hp (i dont think it was under-rated that much, but i do think it was under-rated some). and i think the numbers i read on the 440-6 were 375. and considering that they put both of these engines in the same cars, there isnt a weight difference (at least not much of one) between a car with a 440-6 and a car with a 426. so the way im thinking here, the hemi would win cause of its higher hp/weight ratio.

 

Actually, back in the day, the 440 six pack was better on the street than the hemi. I've read several comparision tests, and the 440 was just better. You talk about weight difference, remember, there's a reason the Hemi was sometimes referred to as an "elephant" motor . Also, most folks are unaware that the Hemi was more of a, relatively speaking, hi rpm motor, whereas the 440 developed more low end torque, hence, better on the street. Now, the strip was a different story, most of the time. The 6 two bbls would just not breath as well as the dual quads on the Hemi, so the Hemi had the advantage on "longer", i.e, 1/4 mile runs, as opposed to a typical "street" race. And yes, a well tuned Hemi actually did develope 500 hp, or more!

dave

 

thanks for clearin it up dave. when i was typing that i never thought about the different powerbands on the engines, but it makes sense.

ive never heard of a stock 426 street hemi making more than 500 hp, but ill take your word for it. how did dodge manage to hide 75 hp when they dynoed them? im guessing attached lots of accessories, decreased the timing, and ran it in a less than optimal RPM range?

 

If I was going to race for a quicker 1/4 mile I would take a 440 Six Pack Over a Hemi anytime.......
The hemi would blow the 440 sixpack away 2/3 of the 1/4 mile....
But the last part of the 1/4 the 440 sixpack would win over the hemi........
I am only saying that the BEE looks good on my 1969 1/2 440 sixpack Coronet Bee
But my Hemi Coronet looks more like a family car lol...........JT

 

I disagree, JohnnyTuinals. Hemi's ruled the 1/4, but 6 paks ruled the streets. Hemi's had factory headers with dumps just behind the rear tires, and dual quads will breath better, at high rpms,than 3 X 2's. The Ramcharges, Melrose Missles, Ronny Sox, and other Mopar teams allran Hemi's because of the tremendous top end the Hemi had - at higher rpm.

As far as the horsepower ratings, 455 Buicks and 454 Chevelles in reality also made close to, if not more, than 500hp. IIRC, the highest "factory" rating on a car was a 1967 Corvette with a 427 and 3 duces. It was called the 427/435. 427 cubic inches and 435 hp. But most everything was ratedat less than their actual potential for insurance purposes by the factories. You have to remember that these 375/425/435hp ratings came from the factories and were not "regulated" as they are now (SAE hp). When the Hemi ruled NASCAR they had 425 hp call outs on their hoods. Do you actuallybelieve that's all the hp they were making? I think not. Then, the insurance industry started crying "foul" of anything over 350 - 400 hp, so power levels were dropped. Smog devices started coming into play, and the horsepower race was over.

dave

 

I am talking about 1/4 mile street racing at Stock...............................I will take the 440 sixpaxk.....JT

 

OK, no problem. It would be close, either way. I remember reading in, I think it was Hot Rod Magazine, where they took a 440+6 and a Hemi and put them out on the 1/4 strip. The difference was only like .2 -.3 of a second. True, the 440+6 would beat the Hemi off the line, but the Hemi, in the hands of the "pro" driver, would catch and pass the 440. The Hemi ended up having the fast ET - but not by much. Something like .1 or .2 seconds was all. But, in street racing, the 440+6 had the advantage in that it developed max hp and max torq at a lower rpm than the Hemi, albiet both the max hp and torq of the 440 was less than the Hemi. It just took the Hemi a bit longer to "get goin". Again, we're talking strictly stock. No change in cams or anything else. Neither one would "blow" the other away. Neither one had such a clear advantage that the driver didn't make the difference. What I mean is that a good driver - in either car - was able tobeat the other, not-so-good driver, in the othercar. They switched back and forth, and made several runs.

There are a couple, documented, Hemis that the owner's did changecams in, put aftermarket headers on (like Doug's or others of the day), put "big" gears in the rear end, and those cars - on the street - were pretty much unbeatable.

As far as the true hp, I was talking stock, too. What Buick, Chevy, Dodge, Plymouth, and othersrated their engines at - from the factory, was not, in fact,the true hp that these engines were able to develope. Another engine that comes to mind was the 427 Chevy "porcupine" head motor. That was a fast damned motor, but it wouldn't stay together. True, it was a race only motor, but I'm not sure that Chevy even, ever, rated it's hp. What the factories rated the engines at, and what they actually developed, were two different things.

Please, don't think that I'm bashing the 440+6. I'm not. It was, and still is,a great engine. Ok, so, are we done?

dave

 

True, the 440+6 would beat the Hemi off the line

Idon't think that is ture?I think the Hemu would take the Sixpack off of the line and at the end of the 1/4 the sixpack will kick in making it close.I have no reason to say if stock 440 sixpack and stock Hemi are better then one another because I have both in all my cars except a 440 in my 69 daytona lol......JT