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Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
ok, ive noticed quite a bit around here about people running platinum plugs, and while i couldnt fully remember the reasons why they are bad (other than theyve been dyno proven to lose power) .. i went ahead and dug up a couple threads over on neons.org that should help you guys out and understand why they are bad for the neon:
while i could have copied/pasted the info here, i felt it would be much better/easier for you guys to just click on those two links and do a little reading. so again, i will state that platinum plugs are BAD to use in the neon. get some NGKs! (the V-powers or the Iridiums are just fine) |
RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
I've been sticking with the the champion coppers having already been advised against the platinums. I wondered if there was any reason behind it and now I know that it's because of the type of ignition system. Thanks
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
next time you change the plugs, go with the NGKs instead of the champions. the champs have been having quality issues for the last year or so.. where plugs are literally falling apart. not cool to have happen.
ill try to dig up some threads about that too if needed. |
RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
Thanks for the tip, I may well take you up on that today as the current set has been in there for quite a while.
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
i had plats in my RT for a while and the car ran like ass with them..so i got NGK..
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
someone should sticky this ;)
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
done...
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
My dad had used the platnums on his monte for 21 years now so he had me get them because they were always great. When I saw this post I had showed him and it made sense. I think I have a little problem with misfiring and so I decided to go with the ones you suggested to see if it'll work. My dad bought them for me but I won't be able to put them in until next wednesday (work lol) so I'll let you know how it works. It makes sense on how it'll fix a couple little problems so I'll see if it gets fixed. Thanks for this post lol.
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
I had time to replace them yesturday. This morning my car ran better thanks for the help. I pulled out the platiums and they looked a little burnt. I turned on my car this morning and it didn't bog down like it used to, there was a couple of small things I noticed that was better when I changed the plugs. I heard though the NGK's don't last as long as like the champions, is that true???
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
ORIGINAL: chud298 I heard though the NGK's don't last as long as like the champions, is that true??? |
RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
i run bosh +4 since i got my car in 99 and never had a probem but the next time i change them i will try ngk and see how they work
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
Do they sell the NGK at any parts store? or is it a special order? I never buy anything from autozone, just the local parts store in my town, i found that autozone parts dont work very well or last very long, tried wipers/plugs ect from autozone all crap :( so ill give these NKG's a try, havent changed the plugs in a loong time so i guess now would be a good time to try them out.
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
ORIGINAL: NeonDriver01 Do they sell the NGK at any parts store? or is it a special order? I never buy anything from autozone, just the local parts store in my town, i found that autozone parts dont work very well or last very long, tried wipers/plugs ect from autozone all crap :( so ill give these NKG's a try, havent changed the plugs in a loong time so i guess now would be a good time to try them out. |
RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
No here are the best spark plugs to get for it right now. They are the NOLOGY silverstones I dont believe there is a better performing and high quality plug out there for your compact tuner. Hot wires by nology are a good combo to use in conjunction with them. These are available for NEONS with an Ignition COIL upgrade available too.
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
meh, i would personally steer clear of Nology stuff. especially their plug wires. $150 plug wires? heh. they arent known as "gimmick" wires in the neon world for no reason :)
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
What's the part number for the NGK's?
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
I bought some bosch quads for my car at about 25k and have had them in there ever since - I havent had any problems like you guys say but I did pull em the other day and they looked roasted - all white, and erroded - not good, either they are burning way too hot or my engine is running way too lean, and seen how I havent blown any codes im figuring its the plugs - when I ran hondas before I bought the dodge I always used em and never had any problems but comparing a dodge to a honda is like comparing japanese pussy to american (hope I dont offend anyone with that statement :D), I like both but they are def different....anyway I should get rid of those plugs huh - what runs good? I need a cooler plug for sure...
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
Im jap and that is offensive! Not Kool but i forgive you this time!
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
I never said either were bad - just different - I like different..
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
I had only Champion Platinums in my '99 Neon R/T the entire time I owned it, 3 years+, and it ran flawless. I hear people always ragging on Champion spark plugs, yet I have always used them from the $.99 cheapies to the Platinums without any problems what so ever. I have tried many other brands from Bosh to Accel U-groove to Splitfires and I have yet to see any improvement in performance, so I'll stick with my good ol' Champions, that has always been Mopars plug of choice and it is mine as well. And yes I am aware that more recently they have also used Bosch and NGK, but they have always used Champions.
I think the greater problem in the ignition system is the sad plug wires, they have between 1,500-3,200 ohms resistance and they're not even a foot long. Everyone that has the 2.0L DOHC or the 2.4L DOHC need to switch them over to MSD Super Conductor plug wires, they smooth out the idle, they actually give it a stronger meaner sounding exhaust (most don't believe this until they get them and then they are shocked that they could make that kind of a difference) and increase horsepower and fuel mileage. They have less than 50 ohms per foot of resistance and since none of the plug wires are even that long, they are between 20-40 ohms resistance which is thousands of times better than stock. Combining the MSD Super Conductor plug wires with a set of Champion Platinum spark plugs is a great and flawless combo. I know this for a fact since I've ran this combo in my '99 R/T for the 3+ years I owned it and now with my '04 SRT-4 and they are both still running great. In fact, my '99 R/T with the MSD wires and Champion plugs also had/has the Mopar Performance CAI, cat-back exhaust, chrome header, motor mounts, bobble strut and PCM (computer) as well as front strut tower brace, MSD coil and REX motor mount inserts on it and with a few drag runs mixed with in town and freeway driving averaged 35+ MPG. My SRT-4 with the MSD wires and Champion plugs also had the Mopar Performance cat-back exhaust, STS and BOV as well as K & N Typhoon CAI, MSD coil, 2 OCC's, Prothane race motor mount inserts and front and rear strut tower braces on it and with the same type driving as the R/T, with the exception of more spirited driving, it got 21.9 MPG the one time I checked it. It would get better if I could keep from enjoying the turbo, but it now has the Mopar Performance Stage 1 on it too.:D |
RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
Well in a stock ignition system I have found that platinums are just fine if you follow manufacturers specs. Not the plug manufacurer but the Car. I owned several other cars before my neon and when you open the gap up too far they go white ashy and run like crap. I could not figure this out until I looked at the car specs and found theat every one of the books from aftermarket spark plug manufactuers sugested 0.044" gap but the owners manual said 0.039"-0.043" which is not what BOSCH, NGK, DENSO, CHAMPION, SPLIFIRE, AC DELCO, AUTOLITE, Etc. said. But when I gapped the same plugs down to 0.039" and fires up the cars they ran great, and plugs burned tan like they should. Hmmm.
As for the +4 same problem as an overgapped plug. Not surprising considering the source said I should gap at .044 not .039 and thus there pregapped assembly was too wide. If you are getting white plugs and they are the correct plug, try gapping to the small end of the manufacturers range and see if any improvements are had. As far as the plug wires being 1500-3500Ω, this absolutely normal as the wire should be about 5-6000Ω per foot. Which is actually funny because champion plugs lately average around 12-120,000Ω per plug not the 5-6000Ω's like they should be. So to go out of your way to eliminate a couple of thousand ohms just to put back way more in a sub-standard plug is rediculous. Most sets of NGK or DENSO plugs are in the realm of 5-6000 Ωs. The true reason for platinum plugs is that you need a lower arc over voltage to fire the plug and they also wear A LOT slower allowing for longer change intervals. If set up properly platinums in a stock ignition will probably give less HP (1-3HP) and also fewer misfires. If gapped to say BOSCH's recommendations if out of the stock realm will not yield acceptable results. Happy motoring! |
RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
id like to state that even correctly gapped, the platinum plugs will still have problems with the neon. it has to do with the design of the ignition system on the neon rather than the plug and wire itself.
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
Well waste spark vs. old fashion systems. Not a lot different. Heck it is almost the default ignition in use today if you do not have Coil Over Plug (Coild for each sparkplug).
Yes the waste spark ignitions will fire in different directions from power to exhaust strokes however so does a FORD Explorer which does by the way use DOUBLE PLATINUM spark plugs from the factory. Bunk I tell you. Hogwash even. The platinum tips should not wear significantly as that is very reason for its use. After 112,00 miles most of the welded on pltinum tips for my fathers explorer werer still there. YUP. So if that little tip welded on is still there not much wear. That is how the newer cars are going to 100,000 miles on a plug change. Some of the newer Lexus utillizing waste spark are actually using a COMBO IRIDIUM/PLATINUM plug. Iridium center electrode(Harder than platinum) but thicker than the standard after market (.7mm vs. .4mm). Then the outer ground electrode is pltinum tipped. This is for longevity performance. So in review, Platinum is just fine, if you have a properly designed pice for your specific application. The +2 and +4s are omproise products and if you have trouble punt and get the right part. Should be not problem. A spark plug failure is not necessarily caused by the mateial used per say (Platinum vs. Copper) but possible a manufacturing/installation problem. So in short yes I do belive that NGK makes some of the best plugs out their and would bet that if you got any of these BKR6ES -- Standard Plug BKR6E -- V-Power Plug (v notch in center electrode sort of like reverse splitfire) BKR6EGP -- V-Power Platinum Plug PFR6G * -- Laser Platinum Plug / Premium (Laser welded platinum tip on ground electrode as well as center electode of platinum) BKR6EIX -- Iridium IX Plug You'd do just fine. |
RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
the neon WILL have problems when using platinum plugs. try a search on neons.org to see just how many have had platinum plugs erode.
"Bosh admits that the plugs are not compatable. The problem that Bosch has acknowledged when using their Platinum plugs in engines with waste spark ignition systems stems from the tendency of electrode metal to get transferred depending upon the polarity (direction of current flow) of the spark. In waste spark ignition systems, 1/2 of the plugs always see reverse polarity sparks. Given the very narrow platinum center electrode of the Bosch Platinums, performance will be degraded more significantly when reverse polarity sparks will cause material to be transferred from the large ground/outer electrode onto the narrow platinum center electrode's exposed end surface" |
RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
If bosch is acknowleging a problem fine but I'd bet that if you tried the double platinum from NGK you'd have no issues!
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
Was just looking around a little more in depth and found the yes there is an issue with regular platinum plugs and DIS/Waste Spark igintion systems. The resolution found however was indeed to goto DOUBLE platinum plugs. This is in direct response to the DIS/Waste Spark ignition systems in use today.
So either regular or DOUBLE PLatinum. :) |
Just use the right type of platinum plugs
Platinum is not a NO NO but here are the box covers for Autolite Double Platinum Plugs
As stated the are an OE/DIS designed to meet the needs of WASTE SPARK IGNITION SYSTEMS. [IMG]local://upfiles/9539/D5AB1C0488B3494B8D9AA474EDC8C8A8.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]local://upfiles/9539/6640E358B423407282A728A93269C893.jpg[/IMG] |
RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
I have run the bosh platnum +4's in my car for almost 10,000 miles now and never had a problem, the car runs great.
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
runs great, but would run better on NGK V-powers or Champions ;)
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RE: Why you should run platinum plugs in the neon!
My Double Platinum Autolites run noticeably smoother than my Champion plugs and mileage is now consistantly over 34 MPG not 30-32 like before. Went 306.8 miles on 9.01 Gallons. Yahoo!
Hey Casper, I did find confirmation of single platinum probrems admitted from Bosch and Autolite. One article was even on Nascar's site. Would recommend alternate plug when you decide to change them again. If you always used platinum and want to maintain this then you should simply move to double platinum and all is well. |
RE: Why you should run platinum plugs in the neon!
Oh this is perfect. I was just about to go to the parts store to find some new plugs. I changed from the original owner's +4's to +2 from Bosch and since then the car has had some problems keeping a steady idle. Sometimes it jumps like the timing is off, other times it nearly dies, and still other times the needle stays steady but the motor feels really rough. Vibrates quite a bit. I looked under the hood and think I also need new motor mounts. I think I need to rebuild the motor. Eats a bit of oil. Once underway it's okay. Well I do drive the snot out of the car. It IS my daily driver after all. Since it still runs relatively well I'm surprised. Lasted lot longer than that old Integra I used to have :-P So what would you all suggest I should change to? BTW I found later that #3 cylinder plug had actually BACKED out a bit.
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RE: Why you should run platinum plugs in the neon!
I just changed over to NGK V"Power" Copper core plugs. $1.79 per plug. All I can say is.. WOW.
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RE: Why you should run platinum plugs in the neon!
I just pulled the plugs in my car and the +4's look brand new, just for fun, I put some NKGs in and it runs worse, I have better response with the +4's.
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RE: Why you should run platinum plugs in the neon!
Consider thyself lucky as they mentioned before that even Bosch admits they are truly not compatable with DIS ignition. So best bet is either a Double Platinum plug (Developed because of DIS problems) or copper. Iridium should be just fine as well.
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
I've been having poor performance from a neon, so I started reading some of the info in the forum, and it matched the problems we were having on a 2000 model. So, we went back to the standard NGK plug and changed the wires since the car has 93k on it, and our problems went away.....the platinum plugs had 38k on them, gas milage was down to 20 mpg hi-way, and under hard accel. from a stop it was life threating to pull out into traffic. During the r&r of the plugs we referanced a Chiltons for various info and discovered that neons of different year models use different plugs......look on the sticker under the hood to be sure what your neon was using when it was built.
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
When i brought my neon 95 SOHC I wondered Why it was running like @@@@ it had a very poor idle and was rough(it also had no power). So I went through it and changed the wires and pulled the plugs they sere boch platinium plugs. It as a little hadr to tell they were even spark plugs since they were burned badly and had no electrode. I changed them and to denso and the car runs like a champ. I think the coil just doesnt like platinum plugs and they would work with an msd coil. i never liked platnium plugs anyway copper conducts better
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
hey i have been wondering why my neon would sputter or hesitate at a red light and i noticed that in one of your web pages listed the guy had said it was his spark plugs. so i'll try some new ngks and see if they work. thanks for the info
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
I use the Bosch Platinums, no problems, but cars seems to high rev when its cold. Plus has this sound like a turbo, when its not. I don't know why it makes that sound, sounds crappy. When car warms up it goes away. Don't know if any others have this problem.
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
Sounds bad well, then it is time to try proper selection of plugs. Go to either basic plugs, Champion or NGK. Then there are better plugs such as Double Platinum (RUN GREAT) or Iridium. See what happens. Make sure the gap is right!!!
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RE: Why you shouldnt run platinum plugs in the neon!
I just bought my neon about 4 months ago. (2005 SXT Auto Trans) I am new to this whole car thing and my brother in-law told me to come here with questions. (Brother in-law is a mercedes tech. He doesn't like dodge.) I was wondering about the whole Nology thing. Why are the not good? Oh and thanks for all the info so far. I have already learned alot of what to look for when buying parts. Thanks everyone.
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